A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

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Could not hear nor understand?

When did being able to understand require hearing? Poppycock!
 
faire_jour said:
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just because someone is speaking does not mean someone else can understand them. She did not have access to the words i was saying no matter how much i say them.
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Coming from a multi-cultural environment where several languages are used and spoken. I may not speak all the languages, but I can comprehend what they are saying by many different means. People always find a way to communicate. Whether hearing or not, it is the mother who primarly teaches a child language. Why on earth would they call in general, someone's first language as their 'mother tongue'.
 
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BecLak said:
faire_jour said:
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just because someone is speaking does not mean someone else can understand them. She did not have access to the words i was saying no matter how much i say them.
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Coming from a multi-cultural environment where several languages are used and spoken. I may not speak all the languages, but I can comprehend what they are saying by many different means. People always find a way to communicate. Whether hearing or not, it is the mother who primarly teaches a child language. Why on earth would they call in general, someone's first language as their 'mother tongue'.
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yeah, and since my kid could not access my language i had to start using a language that she could...ASL. That is the language she learned from me, not english.

and shel, are you saying that deaf kids have access to spoken language? That seems like a position change for you...
 
Wow, so much premium put upon spoken words.
 
I'm not so much pro-CI as pro-opportunity to make the decision freely -- either way.
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I am also all for informed choice too. And as a matter of fact, if a kid demonstrated NO response with HA (ie had a deep profound loss or something like auditory nereopathy or recruitment) I would strongly encourage the parents to look into CI....but ALSO do ASL and work towards a full toolbox too!
i just read that 87% of deaf kids are mainstreamed. We are clearly in the minority.
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True Dhh kids who attend Schools for the Deaf are a minority. However, that isn't due to CIs. It's a bit more complex. There ARE regional sizable dhh programs. Not all mainstreamed kids are solotaire. Also, the mainstreaming numbers were simliar twenty years ago.
 
faire_jour said:
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wrong again. When my child was implanted she had ZERO speech understanding. She would turn to her name, but that was it. She did not understand anything. She did not have access. She could not hear or understand. How is that difficult to understand?
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Ok, let me use an analogy (which hearing people are so fond). Take for example the common household pet. They have no 'access' to spoken language yet they can understand you and communicate with you and visa-versa. Don't you think that a human child surpasses that ability? If you continue to be adamant to your statement above, then you are grossly underestimating a human child's intellectual ability, shame on you.

If it was really the case that your child could not understand you as you say, then it was most likely that you were not understanding her and frustrating her to no end because you projected to her that the only way she could understand you was if she could read your lips! When a baby cries before the age of acquiring speech, the mother of all people, should understand what the baby is communicating. Communication is more than sound. This 'receptive comprehension can only be achieved with hearing' is downright hogwash and AUDIST.
 
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BecLak said:
faire_jour said:
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wrong again. When my child was implanted she had ZERO speech understanding. She would turn to her name, but that was it. She did not understand anything. She did not have access. She could not hear or understand. How is that difficult to understand?
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Ok, let me use an analogy (which hearing people are so fond). Take for example the common household pet. They have no 'access' to spoken language yet they can understand you and communicate with you and visa-versa. Don't you think that a human child surpasses that ability? If you continue to be adamant to your statement above, then you are grossly underestimating a human child's intellectual ability, shame on you.

If it was really the case that your child could not understand you as you say, then it was most likely that you were not understanding her and frustrating her to no end is because you projected to her that the only way she could understand you was if she could read your lips! When a baby cries before the age of acquiring speech, the mother of all people, should understand what the baby is communicating. Communication is more than sound. This 'receptive comprehension can only be achieved with hearing' is downright hogwash and AUDIST.
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no, i wasn't stupid enough to leave my child without language or leave her unable to understand me. Why would i do that? She was 18 months old and couldn't understand spoken language so we gave her ASL.
 
faire_jour said:
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no, i wasn't stupid enough to leave my child without language or leave her unable to understand me. Why would i do that? She was 18 months old and couldn't understand spoken language so we gave her ASL.
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And how fortunate she was/is to be given ASL at such a young age! Unlike me, I didn't have any option. Born severely-deaf (I cannot hear speech), the only one in a hearing family. No access to any HAs until I was 11. (Because I was born in Thailand and lived there until I was 5, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 11). The audiologist totally bypassed even mentioning sign language, deaf school, or deaf community. Yet, I learned to speak and read. My mother would read to me a lot before school too. Watching my mother's mouth and the letters on the page, with the pictures in the book, I had comprehension. That is why what you are saying 'receptive comprehension cannot be achieved without hearing' is total rubbish/garbage/trash!! By saying that, you are saying I have not mastered the English language and that my intellectual level is below that of a common house-pet is an insult to me and to the likes of me.
 
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BecLak said:
faire_jour said:
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no, i wasn't stupid enough to leave my child without language or leave her unable to understand me. Why would i do that? She was 18 months old and couldn't understand spoken language so we gave her ASL.
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And how fortunate she was/is to be given ASL at such a young age! Unlike me, I didn't have any option. Born severely-deaf (I cannot hear speech), the only one in a hearing family. No access to any HAs until I was 11. (Because I was born in Thailand and lived there until I was 5, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 11). The audiologist totally bypassed even mentioning sign language, deaf school, or deaf community. Yet, I learned to speak and read. My mother would read to me a lot before school too. Watching my mother's mouth and the letters on the page, with the pictures in the book, I had comprehension. That is why what you are saying 'receptive comprehension cannot be achieved without hearing' is total rubbish/garbage/trash!! By saying that, you are saying I have not mastered the English language and that my intellectual level is below that of a common house-pet is an insult to me and to the likes of me.
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no i'm not. I'm not talking about you. You are taking what i said about my child and applying it to yourself. I said that my child could not access spoken language, not you. I have no idea what your receptive spoken languages skills are. If you can understand a strangers spoken language without lipreading, great. That is the point of the CI, to provide that opportunity for profoundly deaf children. Most profoundly deaf people can not do that. They say that they lipread, that it is exhausting, and that it still leaves much to be desired. That there are tons of misunderstandings with lipreading and that, if fact, most of them avoid it whenever possible.
 
faire_jour said:
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no i'm not. I'm not talking about you. You are taking what i said about my child and applying it to yourself. I said that my child could not access spoken language, not you. I have no idea what your receptive spoken languages skills are. If you can understand a strangers spoken language without lipreading, great. That is the point of the CI, to provide that opportunity for profoundly deaf children. Most profoundly deaf people can not do that. They say that they lipread, that it is exhausting, and that it still leaves much to be desired. That there are tons of misunderstandings with lipreading and that, if fact, most of them avoid it whenever possible.
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I am using my story as an example. Yes, lipreading is exhausting, speech is exhausting, but it can be achieved without HAs and CIs. No, I cannot understand a stranger without lipreading. Yes, there a many times where there are misunderstandings, but I can speak and have mastered both spoken and written language. I know people who are profound and totally stone deaf who have achieved the same thing. You are the one it appears, that is not comprehending. Sometimes, it appears you can't read either. Because you cannot fathom how anyone can have QOL without being able to hear. Big A.
 
faire_jour said:
no i'm not. I'm not talking about you. You are taking what i said about my child and applying it to yourself. I said that my child could not access spoken language, not you. I have no idea what your receptive spoken languages skills are. If you can understand a strangers spoken language without lipreading, great. That is the point of the CI, to provide that opportunity for profoundly deaf children. Most profoundly deaf people can not do that. They say that they lipread, that it is exhausting, and that it still leaves much to be desired. That there are tons of misunderstandings with lipreading and that, if fact, most of them avoid it whenever possible.
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Um, my wife can lipread just fine.
 
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BecLak said:
faire_jour said:
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no i'm not. I'm not talking about you. You are taking what i said about my child and applying it to yourself. I said that my child could not access spoken language, not you. I have no idea what your receptive spoken languages skills are. If you can understand a strangers spoken language without lipreading, great. That is the point of the CI, to provide that opportunity for profoundly deaf children. Most profoundly deaf people can not do that. They say that they lipread, that it is exhausting, and that it still leaves much to be desired. That there are tons of misunderstandings with lipreading and that, if fact, most of them avoid it whenever possible.
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I am using my story as an example. Yes, lipreading is exhausting, speech is exhausting, but it can be achieved without HAs and CIs. No, I cannot understand a stranger without lipreading. Yes, there a many times where there are misunderstandings, but I can speak and have mastered both spoken and written language. I know people who are profound and totally stone deaf who have achieved the same thing. You are the one it appears, that is not comprehending. Sometimes, it appears you can't read either. Because you cannot fathom how anyone can have QOL without being able to hear. Big A.
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where did i say anything about quaility of life?!? You are clearly reading things that are not there. I said that the ability to understand a stranger's spoken language without lipreading is usually not possible for a profoundly deaf person. Where is that a judgement of their quaility of life? That never happened.

again, the implant allows for the receptive understanding of spoken language without the guessing involved with lipreading. That's all.
 
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Banjo said:
faire_jour said:
no i'm not. I'm not talking about you. You are taking what i said about my child and applying it to yourself. I said that my child could not access spoken language, not you. I have no idea what your receptive spoken languages skills are. If you can understand a strangers spoken language without lipreading, great. That is the point of the CI, to provide that opportunity for profoundly deaf children. Most profoundly deaf people can not do that. They say that they lipread, that it is exhausting, and that it still leaves much to be desired. That there are tons of misunderstandings with lipreading and that, if fact, most of them avoid it whenever possible.
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Um, my wife can lipread just fine.
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so you would recommend that as a reliable method of communication?
 
faire_jour said:
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where did i say anything about quaility of life?!? You are clearly reading things that are not there. I said that the ability to understand a stranger's spoken language without lipreading is usually not possible for a profoundly deaf person. Where is that a judgement of their quaility of life? That never happened.

again, the implant allows for the receptive understanding of spoken language without the guessing involved with lipreading. That's all.
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You are rephrasing yourself. You have stated many times, in many different ways, that spoken language cannot be achieved without the help of assistive hearing apparatus. I am saying you are wrong. Communication is not dependent on sound, there are thousands of different languages around the world - as for receptive understanding - everyone starts out 'deaf'. The sounds still have to be processed into understanding. Children with CIs still have to process the sounds they begin to hear with CIs, as it is not the same as 'normal' hearing (robotic until tweaked many times - from many testimonies of CI users). What difference is there to being deaf without CIs or HAs? Some food for thought.
 
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BecLak said:
faire_jour said:
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where did i say anything about quaility of life?!? You are clearly reading things that are not there. I said that the ability to understand a stranger's spoken language without lipreading is usually not possible for a profoundly deaf person. Where is that a judgement of their quaility of life? That never happened.

again, the implant allows for the receptive understanding of spoken language without the guessing involved with lipreading. That's all.
Click to expand...

You are rephrasing yourself. You have stated many times, in many different ways, that spoken language cannot be achieved without the help of assistive hearing apparatus. I am saying you are wrong. Communication is not dependent on sound, there are thousands of different languages around the world - as for receptive understanding - everyone starts out 'deaf'. The sounds still have to be processed into understanding. Children with CIs still have to process the sounds they begin to hear with CIs, as it is not the same as 'normal' hearing (robotic until tweaked many times - from many testimonies of CI users). What difference is there to being deaf without CIs or HAs? Some food for thought.
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i have never ever said it was impossible. I have always said the same thing.
 
faire_jour said:
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look around here, people say it on this site every day.
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;) The reason I say that is because you say that too.... Practice what you preach.

Now, I do honestly have a request for you.. Just nicely leave. Things were fine when you weren't posting much.
 
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