A hate crime....

Reba said:
You know that for a fact, do you?

Did you know that there are some black people who kill white people just because they are white? It happened in my locality a few years ago. They even confessed that was the reason that they kidnapped, raped, and killed her. It was even premeditated. So, yes, it does happen. White women do lose their lives because of the color of their skin.
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that's why they will be charged with hate crime if applicable.

Reba said:
None of us has any guarantees that we will be free of a criminal attack during our lifetime.
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nothing comparable to fear and tormented history that we minorities deal with for centuries in Caucasian countries
 
Reba said:
It is the assault that is the crime, not the emotion of hate.

Person A can hate Person B with all his heart and mind. Is that a crime? No.

Person A beats up Person B with a baseball bat. Is that a crime? Yes.

If there is no hate crimes law in place, will the beating still be a crime? Yes.

When assault is committed for any reason or no reason at all, it's still a crime.
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excellent example. let us look at how it was in the past before Hate Crime law came into existence..

Person A (white) beats up Person B (black) with a baseball bat. Person A gets minimal sentence.

Person B (black) beats up Person A (white) with a baseball bat. Person B gets maximum sentence or... life prison.
 
Jiro said:
excellent example. let us look at how it was in the past before Hate Crime law came into existence..

Person A (white) beats up Person B (black) with a baseball bat. Person A gets minimal sentence.

Person B (black) beats up Person B (white) with a baseball bat. Person B gets maximum sentence or... life prison.
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Every time? For racial reasons only? You're sure about that?
 
Reba said:
No, I'm not obtuse. Are you ignorant of how courts carry out sentencing?

People convicted of crimes of violence are convicted for the violence, not the emotions.

If anything, proving hate adds another burden to the prosecution's case. Instead of just having to prove that the defendant clobbered the victim, now the prosecutor has to prove what was in the defendant's heart at the time. Of course, he has to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. More opportunities for the defending lawyer to insert that doubt.
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simple - prosecutors don't have to push for hate crime if it's too difficult to prove. prosecutors can charge them what they're charged with.
 
Jiro said:
excellent example. let us look at how it was in the past before Hate Crime law came into existence..

Person A (white) beats up Person B (black) with a baseball bat. Person A gets minimal sentence.

Person B (black) beats up Person A (white) with a baseball bat. Person B gets maximum sentence or... life prison.
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Meh, If true, minimum sentences correct that....no need for guesswork
 
Reba said:
You know that for a fact, do you?

Did you know that there are some black people who kill white people just because they are white? It happened in my locality a few years ago. They even confessed that was the reason that they kidnapped, raped, and killed her. It was even premeditated. So, yes, it does happen. White women do lose their lives because of the color of their skin.

None of us has any guarantees that we will be free of a criminal attack during our lifetime.
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So? No one is condoning that. But black against white crime based on nothing more than racism and hatred is rare when compared to white against black crime. You have to look at it from a perspective of historical oppression and hatred and injustice. Perhaps if you would take the time to do this, you could well understand why the African American population has developed anger and distrust of the dominant white population over time.

However, if you just sit back and assume that they have had the same social experience as you, from your position of white priviledge, then you will never be capable of understanding the issues that bring hate crimes laws into existence.

And yes, I know for a fact that you do not have to consider the effects of the color of your skin or your sexual orientation on your risk of being subjected to a hate crime. Nor do you have to consider any number of things that people of color and GLTB orientation have to consider every day of their lives that might put them at risk as the result of the hatred and bigotry that they encounter.
 
TXgolfer said:
Meh, If true, minimum sentences correct that....no need for guesswork
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but it didn't. that's why prisons are filled with minorities. and that's why many white people get away with it in the past.
 
Jiro said:
but it didn't. that's why prisons are filled with minorities.
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Exactly. Those lesser sentences are applied to the dominant society. It does not correct the inequities in sentencing or in application of the law.
 
TXgolfer said:
Heck, they might even beat you for wearing a SF Giants' jersey if they hate the Giants. Ask Brian Stow
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You know, it is really annoying the way you sit behind the anonymity of your computer screen and try to minimize the importance of some of the social issues we discuss. You are a shining example of what acceptance without question of white male priviledge does to someone's ability to empathize and to think.
 
jillio said:
I wouldn't count on that. Or knowing the minister too well, either.
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I'm not talking about bra sizes, or being pedophiles, or members of a hate group. I am talking about attendance. Attendance is a pretty strong indicator of how important church is to the person. If you go once a year, you most likely are not following the doctrine as closely as someone that attends every week.

Anyhow, gotta bow out of the religious end of this discussion, before the Thread Locking Hand of Mod comes swooping from the sky.
 
Reba said:
We are all sinners. They aren't singled out. One hundred percent of earth's population, past, present, and future are included. I'm included.

If anything, that's being inclusive, not exclusive.
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That doesn't have a thing to do with application of the law. Nor of the influence of specific preachings that are decidedly exlusive and judgmental on the indivudual.
 
saywhatkid said:
I'm not talking about bra sizes, or being pedophiles, or members of a hate group. I am talking about attendance. Attendance is a pretty strong indicator of how important church is to the person. If you go once a year, you most likely are not following the doctrine as closely as someone that attends every week.

Anyhow, gotta bow out of the religious end of this discussion, before the Thread Locking Hand of Mod comes swooping from the sky.
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Yeah? Small church around here, maybe 125 or less members, been in existence with the same minister since his father opened the church when he was a boy, married 45 years, 4 adult children, pastor at the local hospital, there every Wed and twice on Sunday.

Just discovered to have been having an affair with a 14 year old member of the congregation with the 14 year old's mother's approval. I have many more details, but cannot disclose due to confidentiality.

Don't assume because someone parks their butt in a pew they are above doubt.
 
A hate crime charge in court can create doubts on favoring that hate was a factor (e.g. hate blacks, gays, deaf people, etc) and reason for the crime only because the other person was different. A person is charged with beating up a person who happens to be gay. It wasn't about the person's orientation but something else that precipitated an attack on that individual. It turns into a thought police process. It create doubts for the wrong reasons. And it also creates a slippery slope problem when lesser crimes would be attached as a hate crime. And could de-evolve into a practice when the action itself isn't a crime (writing a book, for example) where the author would be charged with a new charge insisting what he wrote is a hate crime. It's the whole double jeopardy thing - getting charged twice for the same crime.
 
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