sign language versus ear implants

Cloggy said:
Many people look at the world around them. The world in which their child will grow up. And in that world, hearing, and being able to speak is a huge benefit over learning a beautiful language like ASL (or any other sign- language.)
That does not mean that sign-language is dicarded. Sign language will be used anyway between child and parents, but will very likely not reach any high level. When the child can hear, focus will be on training the ear and brain. Signs will be used in the transition phase, but hearing will take over.

And with both sign-language and speech requiring time and effort in order to get to a good level, doing both can be a very taunting task.
Choosing one above the other is a very reasonable solution....

And from my own experience.... (for what it's worth) ... the child willl lead the way.... it will show which means of communication is preferred.... and it's view may change over time. As long as there is room for that, communication will be there...
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Too bad many hearing people miss the point of the importance of sign language because they r too busy looking what works in the world around them instead of looking at what works for their child only. It seems like many people r focusing on meeting the communication needs of others not the children's. Due to that view, many deaf/hoh children miss out a lot of critical information during their formative years and end up with poor literacy skills. Maybe it is time to stop looking at what works for people in the world and having the child adapt to meet those needs as a priority but to look at ensuring that all children don't become deprived of language as a priority and then work on devloping speech skills as a tool. Doesn't the child's linguistic needs come first? Guess not. I know u will disagree with my suggestion but that's how I see it and will always see it.
 
Cloggy said:
Many people look at the world around them. The world in which their child will grow up. And in that world, hearing, and being able to speak is a huge benefit over learning a beautiful language like ASL (or any other sign- language.)
That does not mean that sign-language is dicarded. Sign language will be used anyway between child and parents, but will very likely not reach any high level. When the child can hear, focus will be on training the ear and brain. Signs will be used in the transition phase, but hearing will take over.

And with both sign-language and speech requiring time and effort in order to get to a good level, doing both can be a very taunting task.
Choosing one above the other is a very reasonable solution....

And from my own experience.... (for what it's worth) ... the child willl lead the way.... it will show which means of communication is preferred.... and it's view may change over time. As long as there is room for that, communication will be there...
Click to expand...

100% ethnocentric perspective.
 
shel90 said:
Too bad many hearing people miss the point of the importance of sign language because they r too busy looking what works in the world around them instead of looking at what works for their child only. It seems like many people r focusing on meeting the communication needs of others not the children's. Due to that view, many deaf/hoh children miss out a lot of critical information during their formative years and end up with poor literacy skills. Maybe it is time to stop looking at what works for people in the world and having the child adapt to meet those needs as a priority but to look at ensuring that all children don't become deprived of language as a priority and then work on devloping speech skills as a tool. Doesn't the child's linguistic needs come first? Guess not. I know u will disagree with my suggestion but that's how I see it and will always see it.
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:gpost:
 
U know this is funny...I was raised orally so I can fit in the "real" world whatever that is (the concept of the real world doesn't make sense to me) but I ended up in the "fake" world and much happier. It was a waste to raise me orally since I ended up preferring using sign. The child's sense of belonging is also very important too in addition to having strong literacy skills. I would rather have that than having good speech skills. They really did me not do me good anyway.
 
shel90 said:
U know this is funny...I was raised orally so I can fit in the "real" world whatever that is (the concept of the real world doesn't make sense to me) but I ended up in the "fake" world and much happier. It was a waste to raise me orally since I ended up preferring using sign. The child's sense of belonging is also very important too in addition to having strong literacy skills. I would rather have that than having good speech skills. They really did me not do me good anyway.
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Exactly. And far too often literacy and true language fluency, as well as other educational and social aspects are sacrificed for good speech skills. What good is being able to talk well, if one hasn't been educated to the point that one has anything to say?
 
jillio said:
Exactly. And far too often literacy and true language fluency, as well as other educational and social aspects are sacrificed for good speech skills. What good is being able to talk well, if one hasn't been educated to the point that one has anything to say?
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Bingo and many of the hearing people I grew up with...teachers, peers and coworkers...mostly brushed me off cuz it is more work for them to communicate with me. Lucky them that they had each other to interact with easily while I had nobody except for my mom, my best friend and brother. That is totally unfair cuz I didnt ask to be put in that kind of life of isolation!!!! Now, I have a large support system from the Deaf community that I can turn to for advice, support, feedback, socializing, and so much more.
 
shel90 said:
Bingo and many of the hearing people I grew up with...teachers, peers and coworkers...mostly brushed me off cuz it is more work for them to communicate with me. Lucky them that they had each other to interact with easily while I had nobody except for my mom, my best friend and brother. That is totally unfair cuz I didnt ask to be put in that kind of life of isolation!!!! Now, I have a large support system from the Deaf community that I can turn to for advice, support, feedback, socializing, and so much more.
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That says it all right there!
 
Cloggy said:
There you go... You are really good at what you do!
Proving me right AND showing you are wrong in 1 sentence...!!
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How, so, cloggy? I'm very interested in the way your though processes work. What that sentence actually said was, "I am not ethnocentric, therefore, I co not have tunnel vision. However, as you are ethnocentric in your beliefs and practices, you inherently do have tunnel vison.
 
Are you sure about that one? Myself was once time hard of hearing until my hearing loss has decreased. Problem is... you don't know what the different being hard of hearing and deaf. I know deaf people can talk and please don't tell me that deaf people can't talk. I met a lady who raise full deaf and speak so prefect. I wasn't sure and ask other hearing people to see that true. Yep, its true!

H o H is still using sign language as I do. I begin learn sign language while I was H o H. You say don't have much problem? I know who HoH speak well but you do misunderstood. I don't understand why HoH meanie to deaf people. I love Deaf community is my value and glad I raise into that spot. Glad I am not hearing at first place for rest my life or otherwise I will treat deaf people like hearing do.

Sometime I am not sure why people label as H o H? It is because they can speak and it mean hard of hearing. I asked my mom about why my mom say, "my son is hard of hearing..." She said, because you speak well. I was like okay.

It is why you are HoH because you speak well?

Lavender said:
For hoh don't need that both they can talk real good not like deaf who do need asl only. Becuz I know deaf can't understand talking to hearing parent but hoh dont have much plm.
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ideafspy said:
Are you sure about that one? Myself was once time hard of hearing until my hearing loss has decreased. Problem is... you don't know what the different being hard of hearing and deaf. I know deaf people can talk and please don't tell me that deaf people can't talk. I met a lady who raise full deaf and speak so prefect. I wasn't sure and ask other hearing people to see that true. Yep, its true!

H o H is still using sign language as I do. I begin learn sign language while I was H o H. You say don't have much problem? I know who HoH speak well but you do misunderstood. I don't understand why HoH meanie to deaf people. I love Deaf community is my value and glad I raise into that spot. Glad I am not hearing at first place for rest my life or otherwise I will treat deaf people like hearing do.

Sometime I am not sure why people label as H o H? It is because they can speak and it mean hard of hearing. I asked my mom about why my mom say, "my son is hard of hearing..." She said, because you speak well. I was like okay.

It is why you are HoH because you speak well?
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:gpost: I agree with you. I've seen alot of friends have the same situation. My mother told people I am HoH but I labeled myself as a Deaf.
 
jillio said:
How, so, cloggy? I'm very interested in the way your though processes work. What that sentence actually said was, "I am not ethnocentric, therefore, I co not have tunnel vision. However, as you are ethnocentric in your beliefs and practices, you inherently do have tunnel vison.
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Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. It is defined as the viewpoint that “one’s own group is the center of everything,” against which all other groups are judged. ..................
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Looking from my daughters point of view - a deaf child. Yeh, that can be viewed as "ethnocentric".
Looking at her world as a deaf person, our families world, and making the two working together... Nah, that's not "ethnocentric".

Looking at everything from the Deaf perspective - Sure, "ethnocentric".
Only Deaf language is the answer - Definitely "ethnocentric" and definitely "tunnelvision."
But don't worry - there's light at the end of the tunnel. And when you come out... you can look back and see the scala of possiilities that you could not see from within your tunnel.
 
Cloggy said:
Looking from my daughters point of view - a deaf child. Yeh, that can be viewed as "ethnocentric".

That is just it cloggy. You are loking at her deafness from your own perspective...that of a hearing person. Becasue you hear and speak, and because the majority culture speaks and hears, you automatically assume that it is a better, more advantageous way to live. You have stated such an any number of posts.
Looking at her world as a deaf person, our families world, and making the two working together... Nah, that's not "ethnocentric".

You continue to look at it from your family's hearing perspective, not from a deaf perspective. You claims that you want your daughter to be able to interect with her family on their terms is evidenceof that.
Looking at everything from the Deaf perspective - Sure, "ethnocentric".
Only Deaf language is the answer - Definitely "ethnocentric" and definitely "tunnelvision."

I only use the DEaf perspective in my dealing with and relating to Deaf people...or deaf people. I use the hearing perspective when relating to hearing people. You, on theother hand, are able to switch persepctives according tothe population you are referring to. That is why you are ethnocentric, and why that ethnocentrism leads to the tunnel vision that you possess.

I have never said that sign only is the answer. If I beleived that, why would I have gone to the effort to insure that my son had AVT, as well as exposure to sign?
But don't worry - there's light at the end of the tunnel. And when you come out... you can look back and see the scala of possiilities that you could not see from within your tunnel.
Click to expand...

Oh, cloggy, I already see the possibilities, and am working every day to amke those possibilites happen for deaf children.....not fromthe perspective of what I as a hearing person believes is effective, but fromthe perspective of what those who have lived with deafness tells me is effective, and what the research and experience of those professionals who have been intelligent and free thinking enough in their comprehension to step out of their safe little hearing box and proven time over time.
 
jillio said:
That is just it cloggy. You are loking (sp?) at her deafness from your own perspective...that of a hearing person. Becasue (sp?) you hear and speak, and because the majority culture speaks and hears, you automatically assume that it is a better,
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.... you were sooo close with something sensible, and then you ruin it with "automatically assume that it is a better".... wrong interpretation....

jillio said:
..........................

You continue to look at it from your family's hearing perspective, not from a deaf perspective. You claims (sp?) that you want your daughter to be able to interect (sp?) with her family on their terms is evidenceof (sp?) that.

I only use the DEaf perspective in my dealing with and relating to Deaf people...or deaf people. I use the hearing perspective when relating to hearing people. You, on theother (sp?) hand, are able to switch persepctives (sp?) according tothe (sp?) population you are referring to. That is why you are ethnocentric, and why that ethnocentrism leads to the tunnel vision that you possess.

I have never said that sign only is the answer. If I beleived (sp?) that, why would I have gone to the effort to insure that my son had AVT, as well as exposure to sign?

Oh, cloggy, I already see the possibilities, and am working every day to amke (sp?) those possibilites happen for deaf children.....not fromthe (sp?) perspective of what I as a hearing person believes is effective, but fromthe (sp?) perspective of what those who have lived with deafness tells me is effective, and what the research and experience of those professionals who have been intelligent and free thinking enough in their comprehension to step out of their safe little hearing box and proven time over time.
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You assume so much about other people, and feel wronged when people assume things about you.....
And more, you seem to feel that since your choices turned out to be succesful, any other choice is therefore wrong... any succes with some other method is played down as pure luck... or mostly described by you as dumb luck...

And with that attitude, you turn away from many people. Turning away while claiming to do it all in their interest...
 
ideafspy said:
Are you sure about that one? Myself was once time hard of hearing until my hearing loss has decreased. Problem is... you don't know what the different being hard of hearing and deaf. I know deaf people can talk and please don't tell me that deaf people can't talk. I met a lady who raise full deaf and speak so prefect. I wasn't sure and ask other hearing people to see that true. Yep, its true!

H o H is still using sign language as I do. I begin learn sign language while I was H o H. You say don't have much problem? I know who HoH speak well but you do misunderstood. I don't understand why HoH meanie to deaf people. I love Deaf community is my value and glad I raise into that spot. Glad I am not hearing at first place for rest my life or otherwise I will treat deaf people like hearing do.

Sometime I am not sure why people label as H o H? It is because they can speak and it mean hard of hearing. I asked my mom about why my mom say, "my son is hard of hearing..." She said, because you speak well. I was like okay.

It is why you are HoH because you speak well?
Click to expand...



I think that Hard of Hearing means that you may be able to understand over the phone with the special volume and speak into the phone. If you can not understand what the person say on the phone then you are deaf, not hard of hearing. I learned from someone from the past about that. I am deaf so I need to rely on my tty to communicate with the relay operator to the hearing person. I also use my tty to communicate with deaf people or someone who has a tty. Like for example the audiologist does not want to use the tty to call deaf or hard of hearing persons to make appointment or to remind us to come for the appointment,etc. He or she does not like the tty, period. I have to call my relay operator to call the audiologist. Is that ridiculous. :laugh2:
 
Cloggy said:
.... you were sooo close with something sensible, and then you ruin it with "automatically assume that it is a better".... wrong interpretation....



You assume so much about other people, and feel wronged when people assume things about you.....
And more, you seem to feel that since your choices turned out to be succesful, any other choice is therefore wrong... any succes with some other method is played down as pure luck... or mostly described by you as dumb luck...

And with that attitude, you turn away from many people. Turning away while claiming to do it all in their interest...
Click to expand...

And, cloggy, if the assumption that hearing and speaking is better than deafness is not present, I will ask again, why implant?

I think you meant to say "turn people away." Have you read the "Do I understand?" thread lately? Doesn't appear that I turn away the people I serve. As for the hearing persons who disagree.......oh, well.
 
Bebonang said:
I think that Hard of Hearing means that you may be able to understand over the phone with the special volume and speak into the phone. If you can not understand what the person say on the phone then you are deaf, not hard of hearing. I learned from someone from the past about that. I am deaf so I need to rely on my tty to communicate with the relay operator to the hearing person. I also use my tty to communicate with deaf people or someone who has a tty. Like for example the audiologist does not want to use the tty to call deaf or hard of hearing persons to make appointment or to remind us to come for the appointment,etc. He or she does not like the tty, period. I have to call my relay operator to call the audiologist. Is that ridiculous. :laugh2:
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Wow, that is silly!
 
Oh, man, that IS silly to put it mildly; send your audiologist to this board! tmw morning at 8 sharp, hear!? Lol...
 
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