Principal bans parents from pro-'gay' seminar

[Reba]

Maybe b/c the gross majority of high schools out there are VERY homophobic? Reba, you obviously have NO CLUE whatsoever how homophobic public high schools are. GLB kids are tormented, beaten up, and harrassed up the wazoo (and not just ambigious "harassment)
This was probaly just an awareness seminar like "Hey look......these are REAL people you are hurting with your attitudes and behavoir!"

Why can't the school administration and faculty simply emphasize that bullying, harassment, or torment of any kind will not be tolerated? Why just emphasize one kind of harassment? Do we need panels for each race, each religion, for geeks and nerds, for fat girls and boys, for kids with acne and braces, for low-income kids, for kids who are too tall and skinny, for brainiacs and "slow" kids, etc.? No abuse of any kids should be allowed in school.

 

[deafdyke]

Very good point Reba, but I really do not think you understand that in many high schools GLB folks are really really extremely targeted and tormented to the EXTREME, unlike the specific populations you've named. Most public schools overall, tend to be accepting of those types of differences. The homophobia in high school is just SO SO bad, and so ingrained. It's slightly better then it was when I was in high school...(pre Matthew Shepard).........but it IS extreme. Most public schools do not offer these sorts of assembles as a matter of course.......................so maybe there were some really bad incidents or the gay guys were sick of being called faggot or maybe someone got beaten up or maybe................I really don't know, since I don't attend that school.
BUT, you just have NO idea whatsoever the hell GLB kids go through in high school. I'm glad........very glad that they are bringing issues like this up.
It's awareness. God, the parents who are upset about stuff like this, are probaly the same types who were upset about integration back in the 60's, or the same types of Christians who are upset about "Happy Holidays" being not "Christian specific"/ anti christian.

 

[Reba]

Very good point Reba, but I really do not think you understand that in many high schools GLB folks are really really extremely targeted and tormented to the EXTREME, unlike the specific populations you've named. Most public schools overall, tend to be accepting of those types of differences. The homophobia in high school is just SO SO bad, and so ingrained.

If that's the case, do you really believe these kinds of assemblies are the solution?

...so maybe there were some really bad incidents or the gay guys were sick of being called faggot or maybe someone got beaten up or maybe...I really don't know, since I don't attend that school.

I don't know either. But it's also possible that it was presented as a result of an activist group's persuasion.

God, the parents who are upset about stuff like this, are probaly the same types who were upset about integration back in the 60's...

You wouldn't be stereotyping, would you?

I would be upset if my child's school held that kind of assembly, especially if the parents weren't informed ahead of time, or given the choice to opt out.

I supported racial integration in public schools during the 60's when I was in high school, and that's not a comparable situation.

...or the same types of Christians who are upset about "Happy Holidays" being not "Christian specific"/ anti christian.

Sigh...more stereotyping. I thought only Christians were guilty of that. :roll:

BTW, you do realize that it's not just Christians who are opposed to these assemblies?

 

[deafdyke]

Reba, they are PART of the solution. PART of them. You know.....it creates awareness that GLB people are REAL .....what's the word.............HUMAN?

result of an activist group's persuasion.

Or maybe just MAYBE it was about awareness issues. Its like..........awareness about people with disablities or whatever.
Oh, and Reba, you supported integration, but you might not have, if you'd been Baptist back then. Lots of Baptists weren't exactly pro-integration back then.

 

[Reba]

Reba, they are PART of the solution. PART of them. You know.....it creates awareness that GLB people are REAL .....what's the word.............HUMAN?

Or maybe just MAYBE it was about awareness issues. Its like..........awareness about people with disablities or whatever.
Oh, and Reba, you supported integration, but you might not have, if you'd been Baptist back then. Lots of Baptists weren't exactly pro-integration back then.

Lots of non-Baptists were against integration, too. So?

My point is, don't stereotype. It doesn't look good when liberals do it, and it doesn't look good when conservatives do it.

 

[deafdyke]

Sorry you're right..................but the anti integration WAS initially religiously motivated.

 

[Reba]

Sorry you're right..................but the anti integration WAS initially religiously motivated.

As I recall, most of the pro-integration marches, bus trips, and organizations were sponsored by churches, including Baptist churches. Most of the pro-integration meetings began with Christian prayers and hymn singing. Many of the pro-integration march leaders were "reverends".

 

[deafdyke]

Reba, this isn't an attack.........but it's a fact that the segregationists WERE religiously motavated! Some Baptists were (and still are) so extreme that they believed that their should be no mixing of the races. I'm not sure how mainstream those views were, but they WERE religiously motivated. Hey........the Ku Klux KLAN is religiously motivated! (It's a subset of Christian Identiy)

 

[nightcrickets]

Reba, this isn't an attack.........but it's a fact that the segregationists WERE religiously motavated! Some Baptists were (and still are) so extreme that they believed that their should be no mixing of the races. I'm not sure how mainstream those views were, but they WERE religiously motivated. Hey........the Ku Klux KLAN is religiously motivated! (It's a subset of Christian Identiy)

I as an baptist, I call those movements as the work of the devil z(because it keep people from hearing the Gospel of Christ) But yes, some baptist (especially the Ruckman or hyles type of baptists) do not believe in mixed marriage, but most don't know that they already have mixed race in their blood (indians, black, etc.) and just happened to look white. Anyway, most baptists do not believe in mixed religion marriage. If one person is catholic and the other is baptist, it is considered unequally yoke.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

people have been using the bible for their own selfishness for years. They abuse the bible so they can say "SEE HERE, GOD APPROVES OF WHAT I AM DOING", and they are missing the whole point. I think most of the abusive idea of segregation came from the old testament, which is the same as Jewish Torah.

The whole old testament is about Law so we can understand how much of a sinner we are if we tried to obey everything, we are bound to fail. It's to show how holy God is. The new testament is about God's grace. You don't see anything in the new testament about stoning anyone, I don't think. They tried to stone a adultress, but Jesus said who is without sin can cast the first stone. Everyone left because they knew they were not without sin. Jesus is without sin, because he is the Lord, could cast the first stone if he wanted to, but he didn't because he forgave the adultress and told her to sin no more.

The whole point of the bible? well the point is God is the perfect one and we are the messed up ones, and that we can't put ourselves in heaven. God does the saving and put us in heaven..... BUT if you don't want to have anything to do with God and his holiness, you are welcome to walk away from it all. You are welcome to disown him because he can not change from holiness to unholiness for your sake. The problem is, everything was created by God so actually you are walking away from everything that gave you joy. So God have to make a place for people to go to, and the absent of God isn't pleasant, just like the absent of sun isn't. Or the absent of Government laws isn't pleasant so that's why Jails are built for people who doesn't want to have anything to do with the government and it's law. If you submit in his control, and listen to the gospel of Jesus. It is God's ways to show us grace, if we can't understand the suffering, we can't understand how much God loves us and want us to come to him.

 

[christlovedeaf]

I as an baptist, I call those movements as the work of the devil z(because it keep people from hearing the Gospel of Christ) But yes, some baptist (especially the Ruckman or hyles type of baptists) do not believe in mixed marriage, but most don't know that they already have mixed race in their blood (indians, black, etc.) and just happened to look white. Anyway, most baptists do not believe in mixed religion marriage. If one person is catholic and the other is baptist, it is considered unequally yoke.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

people have been using the bible for their own selfishness for years. They abuse the bible so they can say "SEE HERE, GOD APPROVES OF WHAT I AM DOING", and they are missing the whole point. I think most of the abusive idea of segregation came from the old testament, which is the same as Jewish Torah.

The whole old testament is about Law so we can understand how much of a sinner we are if we tried to obey everything, we are bound to fail. It's to show how holy God is. The new testament is about God's grace. You don't see anything in the new testament about stoning anyone, I don't think. They tried to stone a adultress, but Jesus said who is without sin can cast the first stone. Everyone left because they knew they were not without sin. Jesus is without sin, because he is the Lord, could cast the first stone if he wanted to, but he didn't because he forgave the adultress and told her to sin no more.

The whole point of the bible? well the point is God is the perfect one and we are the messed up ones, and that we can't put ourselves in heaven. God does the saving and put us in heaven..... BUT if you don't want to have anything to do with God and his holiness, you are welcome to walk away from it all. You are welcome to disown him because he can not change from holiness to unholiness for your sake. The problem is, everything was created by God so actually you are walking away from everything that gave you joy. So God have to make a place for people to go to, and the absent of God isn't pleasant, just like the absent of sun isn't. Or the absent of Government laws isn't pleasant so that's why Jails are built for people who doesn't want to have anything to do with the government and it's law. If you submit in his control, and listen to the gospel of Jesus. It is God's ways to show us grace, if we can't understand the suffering, we can't understand how much God loves us and want us to come to him.

you are the same level I believe. That is the problem with too many extremist destroying God"s example of offering to the people. Pointing fingers, stuff Bible in someone throat in judgemental attitude and etc. I'm not in the far right or far left, but in the middle. I have alot who look down on me, not because of my personality, but labeled me. Gossippers and two faces keep winning the battle and thinking God bless them, **coughing. But what God see is different.

 

[Defmusicman]

Seems like you guys have gotten off the topic of this thread here. The topic was whether public schools had the right to mandate teaching school kids about "alternative lifestyles" or homosexuality without informing the parents. It's not up to the schools to make this decision, it's the parent's decision as to what moral values their kids will learn. If the school refuses to teach that homosexuality is acceptable or if any group opposes it, then the pro-gay groups who push their agenda in our schools will have the ACLU jump all over them and drag them into court. So it's pretty much a no-win situation for public schools. How sad....

 

[deafdyke]

The topic was whether public schools had the right to mandate teaching school kids about "alternative lifestyles" or homosexuality without informing the parents. It's not up to the schools to make this decision, it's the parent's decision as to what moral values their kids will learn. If the school refuses to teach that homosexuality is acceptable or if any group opposes it,

Defmusicman, Conservative Christians are making a big deal out of NOTHING!
You don't get it! They are raising a hue and a cry over the STUPIDIST things like books like "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "King and King" or a teacher or a seminar or something like that mentioning that some people aren't in hetrosexual relationships. It's taught in the name of DIVERSITY and raising awareness! And you know........the only reason why this is such a hot button issue is b/c it's relatively new, and b/c some conservative christians are reluctant to change their views on things like this. I'll have to say in twenty years, people will look back and wonder WTF (why the fuck) people got so upset over mild things like this.
You know defmusicman.............has it ever occured to YOU that GLB people are people TOO? Real honest HUMANS.............we just happen to love people who have the same bits between their legs as we do.

 

[Reba]

Defmusicman, Conservative Christians are making a big deal out of NOTHING!

Not respecting parental authority is not "nothing". No parents like that, whether they are Christian or not.

You don't get it! They are raising a hue and a cry over the STUPIDIST things like books like "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "King and King" or a teacher or a seminar or something like that mentioning that some people aren't in hetrosexual relationships.

That's your opinion. The opinion of thousands of parents is that they are responsible for their own children.

It's taught in the name of DIVERSITY and raising awareness!

Selective "diversity".

And you know........the only reason why this is such a hot button issue is b/c it's relatively new...

It's a hot button because parents don't like things going on behind their backs.

... and b/c some conservative christians are reluctant to change their views on things like this...

In the name of diversity and freedom of religion, why should they change their views?

BTW, it's not just conservative "Christian" parents who disagree with these programs. This might be a shock to you but there are such things as conservative parents who are Jews, Hindus, Muslims, agnostics, and atheists.

I'll have to say in twenty years, people will look back and wonder WTF ... people got so upset over mild things like this.

Seeing the downward spiral of American society, I would say you might be right about people's future attitudes. Things will just get worse, not better.

 

[Animal_Lover]

wow.. after reading this thread.. i felt like about 10yrs later.. almost all ppl dont care about if someone are homo..

i cant wait to be in that years cuz i hate to be prejudge from close mind ppl..

 

[deafdyke]

Reba, you don't get it at ALL!!!! Most of the people upset about this, weren't upset that the forum was closed to parents...........they were upset b/c homosexuality was being spotlighted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They think that ANY mention of homosexuality or whatever controversial subject matter is automaticly EVIL. Like there was a "controversial" epidsode of Postcards From Buster, where lesbians were mentioned in an offhand manner. It got SO controversial!

Seeing the downward spiral of American society, I would say you might be right about people's future attitudes. Things will just get worse, not better.

EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?! I am VERY offended by that remark!!!! You know, forty or fifty years ago your church may have preached hardcore that women should be silent, or that it was OK for men to domesticly abuse their wives, or that interracial marriage was of the devil or any of many other contraversial things. There are probaly members of your church who thought that things were so awful back then b/c they changed their views on a subject or whatever. Times change, people change. Nobody's got a 100% "right" view on the subject of Jesus and God. Who knows? Maybe God actually thinks that homosexuality is OK, but many churches can't see it. We are HUMANS. Humans cannot understand God's ways, any more then cats can understand humans! God is too complex to be understood by humans!

 

[Defmusicman]

Well, I can see that some people have deep feelings on this subject. Frankly, I don't care if a person is gay or whatever. I, personally, respect those whose opinions are different from mine even if I do not agree with them. I just happen to believe that homosexuality does not fit in with the natural order of things. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. So the garbage about "maybe God thinks homosexuality is ok" does not hold water. When the day comes that a MAN can get pregnant and carry a baby to a full term birth, I might change my mind then. So this will be my last post on that subject.

Deafdyke, I enjoyed the debate and thanks for the mental exercise.

Reba, thanks for coming to my defense and for your sterling rebuttals.

 

[deafdyke]

I just happen to believe that homosexuality does not fit in with the natural order of things. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. So the garbage about "maybe God thinks homosexuality is ok" does not hold water. When the day comes that a MAN can get pregnant and carry a baby to a full term birth, I might change my mind then. So this will be my last post on that subject.

What does male pregnancy have to do with homosexuality? Seriously.....homosexuality has NOTHING to do with gender roles..........
Oh and there are animals (mammals) who have been observed in homosexual behavoirs.

 

[Reba]

...Oh and there are animals (mammals) who have been observed in homosexual behavoirs.

So? Animals have also been observed to eat their young, eat other animal's poop, roll in dirt, sniff butts, feed their babies their vomit, pick and eat lice from each other, and kill their romantic rivals. Are those behaviors acceptable to humans?

I don't know about you but I don't use animals (mammals or otherwise) for my role models. :roll:

 

[Reba]

Reba, you don't get it at ALL!!!! Most of the people upset about this, weren't upset that the forum was closed to parents...........they were upset b/c homosexuality was being spotlighted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you take a poll?

They think that ANY mention of homosexuality or whatever controversial subject matter is automaticly EVIL. Like there was a "controversial" epidsode of Postcards From Buster, where lesbians were mentioned in an offhand manner. It got SO controversial!

Also, SO irrelevant to this topic.

EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?! I am VERY offended by that remark!!!!

Well, that's life. Posters offend me on a daily basis at AD and I pretty much just deal with it.

You know, forty or fifty years ago your church may have preached hardcore that women should be silent, or that it was OK for men to domesticly abuse their wives, or that interracial marriage was of the devil or any of many other contraversial things.

Wow, talk about me "not getting it"! You have no clue what the people in my church believe or do. For someone who doesn't like people to stereotype minorities you do a good job of it when it comes to conservatives or Christians. It's almost laughable except that some people might actually believe what you post.

...Maybe God actually thinks that homosexuality is OK ...

Right . . . and He thought it would be fun to leave that out of His Bible, sit back, and watch the battle develop. Great entertainment! God does have a sense of humor but He's not sadistic. Puh-lease!

... Humans cannot understand God's ways, any more then cats can understand humans! God is too complex to be understood by humans!

We might not understand all the reasons why God does things, or how He does them, but we can trust and obey Him.

BTW, Christians seek to know the heart and mind of God; cats couldn't care less about the hearts and minds of humans, and they certainly don't seek to understand them.