Salvation Of The Lord Alone

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christlovedeaf

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Salvation is from the Lord Himself and His work on the cross. There is no purgatory and nowhere be found and even Jesus has not mention anything about purgatory. Just right before His death on the cross, He said IT IS FINISHED. As also one man next to Him asked Him if He remember him, and Jesus said, today you will be in paradise, nowhere He mentioned purgatory, why? All the forgiveness, and sanctification is here and now, not later. And that is daily part. But as level of hell, Jesus not even mentioned that, but, but, as Jesus said, if anyone added in the Word of God, that is something more than what God has taught, the plague in hell be added to that person. But what sin you commit does not put u in the level. And what we did is not based by going to hell, what we did, is bec we are born in sin. Jesus took all of our sins upon Himself. Jesus does not turn back on anyone, not even one, from Him. Salvation alone is thru Him, nothing else. Even the rich man, one of the relgious leader said, I have follow all 10 commandment,Jesus said, you are very close to God, but cut short, give everything have to the poor. Jesus didn't say you are rich, so give everything, what Jesus sees in a person he lacked, his lack is self approve God instead of giving himself to God and let Him control. That's the whole about the Gospel is love and peace.
 
Meh. The problem with Christianity is that it places salvation out of human hands and takes the onus of acting well off of individuals. Instead, it makes it entirely up to God, which means humans can do whatever they want--We've seen time and time again what evil is caused by that teaching.

Purgatory is one of the more interesting concepts of Catholicism specifically and I do not doubt there are reasons that that organisation has that idea. Nonetheless, the concept of salvation by grace is one of the great failings of the Christian theology, and I hope some day you will realise that and adopt a more action-oriented approach to your religion.
 
christlovedeaf said:
Salvation is from the Lord Himself and His work on the cross. There is no purgatory and nowhere be found and even Jesus has not mention anything about purgatory. Just right before His death on the cross, He said IT IS FINISHED. As also one man next to Him asked Him if He remember him, and Jesus said, today you will be in paradise, nowhere He mentioned purgatory, why? All the forgiveness, and sanctification is here and now, not later. And that is daily part. But as level of hell, Jesus not even mentioned that, but, but, as Jesus said, if anyone added in the Word of God, that is something more than what God has taught, the plague in hell be added to that person. But what sin you commit does not put u in the level. And what we did is not based by going to hell, what we did, is bec we are born in sin. Jesus took all of our sins upon Himself. Jesus does not turn back on anyone, not even one, from Him. Salvation alone is thru Him, nothing else. Even the rich man, one of the relgious leader said, I have follow all 10 commandment,Jesus said, you are very close to God, but cut short, give everything have to the poor. Jesus didn't say you are rich, so give everything, what Jesus sees in a person he lacked, his lack is self approve God instead of giving himself to God and let Him control. That's the whole about the Gospel is love and peace.
Amen! :hug: :gpost:
 
Teresh said:
Meh. The problem with Christianity is that it places salvation out of human hands and takes the onus of acting well off of individuals. Instead, it makes it entirely up to God, which means humans can do whatever they want--We've seen time and time again what evil is caused by that teaching.

Purgatory is one of the more interesting concepts of Catholicism specifically and I do not doubt there are reasons that that organisation has that idea. Nonetheless, the concept of salvation by grace is one of the great failings of the Christian theology, and I hope some day you will realise that and adopt a more action-oriented approach to your religion.
Well, teresh, I know you don't believe and inspite of ur theory from roman catolic, tho I don't agree of their teaching. I would say the same thing, one day, u will see the whole point of what God has done and no, their is no failing of point of grace. Inspite of intellectual of religion, but I have my knowledge of what I learned and seen and the awesome power of God I experience myself, is bec of His work, I gave up myself and let God took over and seen it and learn it thru life and acknowlege my limitations, failures and etc. Yet, I'm still in the flesh, but my faith in Him remain, the One who loves me and gave Himself for me. I recently watched how awe God's power by touches the lives of the people all over the world and many have given their lives to the Lord. Many shared about never had this experience and thought wrongly about christianity. But inspite of ur unbelief, and don't say I lack of things. I remain firm of my belief and the reality and fact of who Jesus is and what God has done for us.
 
Black and White
Dark and Light
Negative and Postive
Hell and Heaven
Yin and Yang
Evil and Not Evil
Bad and Good
Where is grey?
Where is inbetween?


Maybe it is something God did not tell us about whole truth in bible. Many words were removed before it written down on the paper. There is no balance in the bible except for whole black and white.
 
christlovedeaf said:
I would say the same thing, one day, u will see the whole point of what God has done and no, their is no failing of point of grace.

Millions of dead people mindlessly slaughtered in the name of your "saviour" because the slaughterers were "saved" (and according to Christian theology, probably in heaven now) is not a confirmation that Christianity's concept of grace is valid. If anything, it is evidence that grace does *not* "save" people as "saved" people use their "saved" status as a justification for unspeakable horrors.

We see it even today from people such as the Westboro Baptist Church, Ann Coulter and others.

When you believe you speak for God, you erase all semblance of morality and desire for social justice because you believe you can do no wrong. It makes you exactly the same as the Muslim extremists that you hate and blame for the world's problems. You are no different from them in your ridiculous religious zealotry.

christlovedeaf said:
Inspite of intellectual of religion, but I have my knowledge of what I learned and seen and the awesome power of God I experience myself, is bec of His work, I gave up myself and let God took over and seen it and learn it thru life and acknowlege my limitations, failures and etc.

Then you are not doing as God wishes. God created you in God's image and likeness. Therefore, if you are going to make the claim that your body is inherently evil, you are also claiming that God is inherently evil. Denial of knowledge and intelligence is, consequently, denial of God's goodness.

christlovedeaf said:
But inspite of ur unbelief, and don't say I lack of things.

"Unbelief" that Jesus was something he was not, yes, I would have to say that I posess that. That does not mean I do not believe on God, only that I am monotheistic and believe that to define God in the context of a human being is ridiculous as it places limits on God's authority.

You lack both understanding of scripture and a strong moral code. That does not damn you, however, as your actions determine your fate.
 
jazzy said:
Black and White
Dark and Light
Negative and Postive
Hell and Heaven
Yin and Yang
Evil and Not Evil
Bad and Good
Where is grey?
Where is inbetween?


Maybe it is something God did not tell us about whole truth in bible. Many words were removed before it written down on the paper. There is no balance in the bible except for whole black and white.
what part do you think God not telling us about the whole truth?
 
Teresh said:
Millions of dead people mindlessly slaughtered in the name of your "saviour" because the slaughterers were "saved" (and according to Christian theology, probably in heaven now) is not a confirmation that Christianity's concept of grace is valid. If anything, it is evidence that grace does *not* "save" people as "saved" people use their "saved" status as a justification for unspeakable horrors.
////THAT'S YOUR OPINION BY LOOKING AT IT. YOUR TEACHING TO ME IS HORRIFIC AND PERVERT THE IDEAS AND WRONG IDEA OF GRACE, INSPITE HOW YOU LOOK AT IT. AND EVEN THE OT TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT.
We see it even today from people such as the Westboro Baptist Church, Ann Coulter and others.
WELL, YOU HAVE NO CLUE AND SEE WHAT GOD HAS DONE TO HER AND NOT ONLY THAT, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IS WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH IS. AND NOT ONLY THAT, I'M VERY CAUTIOUS WHO TEACHES INSPITE OF DENOMINATIONS. I READ THE WORD MYSELF AND MAKE SURE THAT MATCHES WHAT THE WORD IS, BUT SEEMS TO ME, YOU FOLLOW THE TEACHING LEAD U ASTRAY OF WHAT GOD HAVE PLANNED FROM WHOMEVER. I HAVE SEEN MANY DEAF PEOPLE BASED ON CHURCH TEACHING AND FOLLOW THE TEACHING AND SHAKING THEIR HEAD SAYING AMEN, BUT NOT ME, THERE ARE SOME I DON'T AGREE WITH AND HAVE TO BECAREFUL WHAT IT APPLIED AND HOW TO USE IT.
When you believe you speak for God, you erase all semblance of morality and desire for social justice because you believe you can do no wrong. It makes you exactly the same as the Muslim extremists that you hate and blame for the world's problems. You are no different from them in your ridiculous religious zealotry.
WRONG PERSPECTIVE ABOUT ME, TERESH. DO YOU THINK I BELIEVE THAT I AM "SAVED" AND GET A WAY WITH SIN? GOD FORBID. BUT DO I MAKE MISTAKES, YES, HAVE YOU HEARD THE WORD REPENTANCE? MANY MISUNDERSTOOD THAT WORD. MANY THOUGHT THAT IS, RIGHT POINT YOU STOP AND MAKE NO MISTAKES, WHICH IS NOT TRUE. THAT REPENTANCE MEANT BY CHANGING YOUR THOUGHT WAYS INTO GOD'S THOUGHT. AND IT IS A DAILY SANCTIFICATION AND GROWING PROCESS. YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT CHRISTIAN DOES, I MEAN ALL OF THEM THE SAME BELIEFS?, THE ANSWER IS NO. EACH HAS DIFFERENT DEGREE, TRUE BELIEVERS, WITH GOD'S HELP TO BECOME MORE LIKE HIM, BUT NOT YET COMPLETE OR SAY GLORIFIED TILL HE CALLED US HOME. WE SUPPOSE TO PUT SELF DEAD DAILY. IS IT WRONG TO HAVE THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT? IS IT WRONG TO HAVE LOVE(AGAPE),JOY, PEACE, KINDNESS,GENTLENESS,FAITHFULNESS SELFCONTROL? THAT'S SPIRITUAL CHRISTIANS. THERE IS NO HATRED IN THIS. EVEN THO, I'M NOT IN EXTREMIST LEVEL AND REFUSE TO DO SO. THE WAY YOU SAY NEG IN THE VIEW OF CHRISTIANITY.


Then you are not doing as God wishes. God created you in God's image and likeness. Therefore, if you are going to make the claim that your body is inherently evil, you are also claiming that God is inherently evil. Denial of knowledge and intelligence is, consequently, denial of God's goodness.
THERE IS NO DENIAL IN THIS, GOD LOOKS IN THE HEART, NOT WHAT YOU DO. ITS HOW GOD'S VIEW. THERE IS NO PLACE HOW SEES THE WAY WE SEE. TRUE, GOD CREATED US IN HIS IMAGE, BUT WHAT DID ADAM AND EVE DO? THEY SINNED AGAINST GOD AND IT AFFECT US, THEN WHAT YOU THINK GOD ARE DOING AND DID? HE PROVIDE A WAY FOR US. YOU DON'T SEE THAT PART. THOSE HUMAN THEORIES BY SAYING " GOD IS LOVE, WHATEVER YOU FEEL LIKE DOING, DO IT, GOD UNDERSTAND, NOBODY IS PERFECT". THAT'S VERY OPPOSE WHAT GOD SAYS.


"Unbelief" that Jesus was something he was not, yes, I would have to say that I posess that. That does not mean I do not believe on God, only that I am monotheistic and believe that to define God in the context of a human being is ridiculous as it places limits on God's authority.
CHRISTIANS ALSO DON'T PLACE ON GOD'S AUTHORITY EITHER. AND I KNOW YOU ARE MONOTHEISTIC. I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD AND WE WORSHIP ONE GOD AND I KNOW YOU THINK WE WORSHIP 3 GODS WHICH WE DON'T, BEC WE BELIEVE IN TRINITY AND TRINITY IS ONE GOD. AND THAT I'M SORRY TO SAY WHAT U ARE LACKING. BUT INSPITE, I STICK WITH THE FACT, EVEN YOU DON'T THINK IT IS.
You lack both understanding of scripture and a strong moral code. That does not damn you, however, as your actions determine your fate. ///// THAT, I SAY IT ALL AROUND, YOU LACK BOTH UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURES AND STRONG MORAL CODE. HE MOLDING AND CONTINUE TO MOLD ME INTO HIS LIKENESS. DAILY LITTLE BY LITTLE, AS I STARVE FLESHLY DESIRES, THAT IS FLESHLY DESIRES DIED. THO STILL CREEPING UP, BUT THE BATTLE IS THE LORD'S AND HELP ME THROUGH IT.
 
I think it's possible that the "Level of Hell" thread irked some people, or perhaps, made some of you feel as though you had to clarify something. However, the "hell test" was posted done out of humor, and shouldn't be taken seriously. I don't really think anyone took it seriously.

I certainly didn't.
 
christlovedeaf said:
THAT'S YOUR OPINION BY LOOKING AT IT. YOUR TEACHING TO ME IS HORRIFIC AND PERVERT THE IDEAS AND WRONG IDEA OF GRACE, INSPITE HOW YOU LOOK AT IT. AND EVEN THE OT TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT.

So having a different interpretation is horrific, but incalcuable numbers of people slaughtered for no reason other than not being Christians in the Crusades and the Inquisition aren't? I doubt I'm the only one who realises how idiotic that statement is?

christlovedeaf said:
WELL, YOU HAVE NO CLUE AND SEE WHAT GOD HAS DONE TO HER AND NOT ONLY THAT, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IS WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH IS.

What has God "done to her"? And by the by, who does "her" refer to?

christlovedeaf said:
I READ THE WORD MYSELF AND MAKE SURE THAT MATCHES WHAT THE WORD IS, BUT SEEMS TO ME, YOU FOLLOW THE TEACHING LEAD U ASTRAY OF WHAT GOD HAVE PLANNED FROM WHOMEVER.

Teaching and learning does not lead one astray. If anything, it is an acknowledgement that one wishes to understand more. Rejecting such is, at best, a rejection of understanding and at worst a rejection of God.

christlovedeaf said:
WRONG PERSPECTIVE ABOUT ME, TERESH. DO YOU THINK I BELIEVE THAT I AM "SAVED" AND GET A WAY WITH SIN? GOD FORBID.

The problem is not that you can "get away with" sin, it's rather that you don't recognize that an action you take *is* sin because you believe it is acceptable given the information provided. A Muslim man is approached by an extremist group and told that if he dies a martyr to Islam by commiting suicide on a bus, he will go to Paradise. Now, Christians are quick to condemn that action--As they should. It's not an acceptable way to be. However, they do not practice what they preach, as they similarly are willing to do what an objective observer would call "evil" to accomplish their objectives.

Their objectives, naturally are a command believed to have been given by Jesus--To 'spread the gospel'. The order to convert people to this new religion called Christianity is the reason Christians have historically despised members of other faiths.

christlovedeaf said:
THERE IS NO DENIAL IN THIS, GOD LOOKS IN THE HEART, NOT WHAT YOU DO.

Oh, so if I went and murdered 50 people with pure intentions, that's OK? I don't deserve to be punished?

christlovedeaf said:
HE PROVIDE A WAY FOR US. YOU DON'T SEE THAT PART.

I don't see something that doesn't exist. What do we need "a way for" or from? Sin? We had that long before Jesus came around.

christlovedeaf said:
CHRISTIANS ALSO DON'T PLACE ON GOD'S AUTHORITY EITHER. AND I KNOW YOU ARE MONOTHEISTIC. I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD AND WE WORSHIP ONE GOD AND I KNOW YOU THINK WE WORSHIP 3 GODS WHICH WE DON'T, BEC WE BELIEVE IN TRINITY AND TRINITY IS ONE GOD. AND THAT I'M SORRY TO SAY WHAT U ARE LACKING. BUT INSPITE, I STICK WITH THE FACT, EVEN YOU DON'T THINK IT IS.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three persons in one God. If you were going to say they're different names for God (contrast Adonai or Elohim in Judaism, names for different ways God has behaved in relation to Israel), then that would be fine. To claim however that they are each seperate and distinct entities is to claim that there are three gods.

Most ancient pagan religions believed in the concept of a godhead, that the gods collaboratively composed a larger, absolute reality called the godhead. They were each distinct entities, but the godhead was the unity of them all. The trinity in Christianity is the modern concept of a godhead. It is not a legitimately monotheistic concept as it was introduced in an attempt to make monotheism acceptable to pagans. However, in doing so it subverted monotheism, as it resulted in people praying to the three entities seperately, thus preventing a legitimately monotheistic trinity from being accepted.

christlovedeaf said:
THAT, I SAY IT ALL AROUND, YOU LACK BOTH UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURES AND STRONG MORAL CODE. HE MOLDING AND CONTINUE TO MOLD ME INTO HIS LIKENESS.[/QUPTE]

You can say it all you want, it doesn't make you correct. You've made other incorrect claims too, such as that evolution is incorrect or that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies. You have no credibility because you haven't entered into legitimate study of the subject. You seem to want to be correct, but you're not willing to accept when you're ignorant or try to learn more. It's a curious behaviour, but unfortunate and problematic.

christlovedeaf said:
DAILY LITTLE BY LITTLE, AS I STARVE FLESHLY DESIRES, THAT IS FLESHLY DESIRES DIED.

Then you're killing a part of yourself and a part of your connection to God. Asceticism is one of the worst possible practices for you. Over-stimulation is also wrong, but denying yourself the fruits of your labours and the needs of your body is equally ridiculous.

Your body was not created to lead you to sin.
 
So having a different interpretation is horrific, but incalcuable numbers of people slaughtered for no reason other than not being Christians in the Crusades and the Inquisition aren't? I doubt I'm the only one who realises how idiotic that statement is?



What has God "done to her"? And by the by, who does "her" refer to?



Teaching and learning does not lead one astray. If anything, it is an acknowledgement that one wishes to understand more. Rejecting such is, at best, a rejection of understanding and at worst a rejection of God.



The problem is not that you can "get away with" sin, it's rather that you don't recognize that an action you take *is* sin because you believe it is acceptable given the information provided. A Muslim man is approached by an extremist group and told that if he dies a martyr to Islam by commiting suicide on a bus, he will go to Paradise. Now, Christians are quick to condemn that action--As they should. It's not an acceptable way to be. However, they do not practice what they preach, as they similarly are willing to do what an objective observer would call "evil" to accomplish their objectives.

Their objectives, naturally are a command believed to have been given by Jesus--To 'spread the gospel'. The order to convert people to this new religion called Christianity is the reason Christians have historically despised members of other faiths.



Oh, so if I went and murdered 50 people with pure intentions, that's OK? I don't deserve to be punished?



I don't see something that doesn't exist. What do we need "a way for" or from? Sin? We had that long before Jesus came around.



Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three persons in one God. If you were going to say they're different names for God (contrast Adonai or Elohim in Judaism, names for different ways God has behaved in relation to Israel), then that would be fine. To claim however that they are each seperate and distinct entities is to claim that there are three gods.

Most ancient pagan religions believed in the concept of a godhead, that the gods collaboratively composed a larger, absolute reality called the godhead. They were each distinct entities, but the godhead was the unity of them all. The trinity in Christianity is the modern concept of a godhead. It is not a legitimately monotheistic concept as it was introduced in an attempt to make monotheism acceptable to pagans. However, in doing so it subverted monotheism, as it resulted in people praying to the three entities seperately, thus preventing a legitimately monotheistic trinity from being accepted.

christlovedeaf said:
THAT, I SAY IT ALL AROUND, YOU LACK BOTH UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURES AND STRONG MORAL CODE. HE MOLDING AND CONTINUE TO MOLD ME INTO HIS LIKENESS.[/QUPTE]

You can say it all you want, it doesn't make you correct. You've made other incorrect claims too, such as that evolution is incorrect or that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies. You have no credibility because you haven't entered into legitimate study of the subject. You seem to want to be correct, but you're not willing to accept when you're ignorant or try to learn more. It's a curious behaviour, but unfortunate and problematic.



Then you're killing a part of yourself and a part of your connection to God. Asceticism is one of the worst possible practices for you. Over-stimulation is also wrong, but denying yourself the fruits of your labours and the needs of your body is equally ridiculous.

Your body was not created to lead you to sin.
See, this is what I see, I KNOW EVERYTHING MORE THAN YOU attitude. Claiming christians saying that. And you have no idea what it mean put to death of sinful desires and thinking it mean killing part of me or condemning self, it does not mean that way at all. If you don't agree about our flesh isn't a sin, then you can't know of who God is. Flesh is not mean skin body, flesh is part of desires and there will be no flesh be a part in Heaven. And also, we talked about crusades and you discussed it again and apparrently you ignore the whole fact about crusade and take the blame on christians by ignoring the particular groups of crusade. Did you know Anabaptist, Martin Luther and others were burn in stake, drowned and etc by not follow Catholicism? What is the point for not defend ourselves? That's all I see your hurtful comment and negative ideas and pride and arrogance attitudes. Like I said, no, we do not go on sinning, I know many are doing that, that is carnal christians, but spiritual christians doesn't. Inspite of your lacking of understanding and using silly POV about the donkey, and Isaiah mentioned, and many other scriptures and we also discussed about rebuilding the temple and His reigning. But you constantly repeating it what we already discuss it and looki like you ignored our beliefs and pointing about these subjects. It has been fulfilled, and the plan as reigning is coming. The way I see, you have no clue the idea of sacrifice and the plan of God. We do worship, El Shaddai, Adonnai (these two songs, I love), Jehovah-Rapha, The Rock, The Living Water and Bread, Ressurrection and The Life,,, His Name in nameless, that is what the Lord say, " I AM". Why He named Himself I AM? Bec He's The God of lotsa names. Created us in His Image does not mean body form, it means His characters. This is the reason why I see the way you look the idea about put to death things that is not of God daily, and other spiritual things and etc, that is the reason why I see, you think you know what the Gospel is about and the way you see christian believe different what I believe. But about Trinity part, you couldn't get a glimpse the idea how that works and sorry, that I say that you are resisting the fact of what Isaiah pointing at, and also Psalmists, and others wrote and point who is Messiah and lack of an idea the point of the cross and the purpose of the resurrection and preparing a place for us and also upcoming reigning. You think when Messiah comes, its all about reigning, no, it doesn't, not itself. You have no idea the purpose of the Messiah.
 
Black and White
Dark and Light
Negative and Postive
Hell and Heaven
Yin and Yang
Evil and Not Evil
Bad and Good
Where is grey?
Where is inbetween?


Maybe it is something God did not tell us about whole truth in bible. Many words were removed before it written down on the paper. There is no balance in the bible except for whole black and white.

It's why God warned about " penknife " ( omittin' the Word of God ). Let me copy and paste what God says about omittin' the Word of God.

Revelation 22:18-19

" For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book. If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. "

I would like to share with you a little bit about a man who was an author. It is based on a true story. He omitted many words out and changed them to his own words in the bible. God gave him a plague. Right now, he was in the Asylum Hospital. The bibles that he wrote has been published and now they are NIV and other different names -- not like KJV. KJV bibles are preserved.
 
christlovedeaf said:
See, this is what I see, I KNOW EVERYTHING MORE THAN YOU attitude.

I only know as much as I know. I do, however, know a bit more than you do.

christlovedeaf said:
And you have no idea what it mean put to death of sinful desires and thinking it mean killing part of me or condemning self, it does not mean that way at all.

Then what does it mean?

christlovedeaf said:
If you don't agree about our flesh isn't a sin, then you can't know of who God is. Flesh is not mean skin body, flesh is part of desires and there will be no flesh be a part in Heaven.

That is a Pauline teaching... It's not from Jesus.

christlovedeaf said:
And also, we talked about crusades and you discussed it again and apparrently you ignore the whole fact about crusade and take the blame on christians by ignoring the particular groups of crusade.

As I recall, it was the Pope, a Christian, who called for the Crusades.

christlovedeaf said:
Did you know Anabaptist, Martin Luther and others were burn in stake, drowned and etc by not follow Catholicism?

As far as I know "Anabaptist" was not a person. Martin Luther died of a heart attack, he wasn't executed by the Catholic Church (although I do not doubt they would have wanted to). Anyway, what's your point? We've already agreed that the Catholic church's history is not spotless. But aside from Orthodox Christianity, Protestants are equally responsible for Church actions up until the Reformation.

christlovedeaf said:
Inspite of your lacking of understanding and using silly POV about the donkey, and Isaiah mentioned, and many other scriptures and we also discussed about rebuilding the temple and His reigning. But you constantly repeating it what we already discuss it and looki like you ignored our beliefs and pointing about these subjects.

That is because you haven't proven anything. Yes, you've claimed the other prophecies were supposedly fulfilled, but you never explained how they were fulfilled (or, for that matter, how there's no temple or world peace).

christlovedeaf said:
His Name in nameless, that is what the Lord say, " I AM".

Personally I prefer "Ein Sof" (the "infinite one") because the other names imply something about God that either isn't true or places limits on God.

christlovedeaf said:
But about Trinity part, you couldn't get a glimpse the idea how that works and sorry, that I say that you are resisting the fact of what Isaiah pointing at, and also Psalmists, and others wrote and point who is Messiah and lack of an idea the point of the cross and the purpose of the resurrection and preparing a place for us and also upcoming reigning.

Isaiah wasn't referring to Jesus if you read the prophecies. ><

The Psalmist was not a prophet...

christlovedeaf said:
You think when Messiah comes, its all about reigning, no, it doesn't, not itself. You have no idea the purpose of the Messiah.

Reigning? No, I could care less about that. I don't think you really understand my concept of the Messiah or his/her/its/their purpose.
 
Reba, AMEN! Teresh, I rely on my God whom I worship and oh, how awesome His Grace and mercies I see and His faithfulness. I love the song and its so true, called " I Can Only Imagine". Its about when standing before His presence, by surrounding by His glory, would I dance before Him or stand in awe, or singing hallelujah or speechless in awe, standing in His presence or on my knees when I fall. Its so true. As myself I can only imagine the awe of God. All I rely in my faith in Him alone, regardless of ur disagreement of urs and I don't compare and brag about myself and u. You can claim u know better than me. That doesn't bother me. Oh how I love to worship Him and know Him better every D-A-Y. You can constantly jabbering your wrong ideas of my beliefs.
 
The problem with Christianity is that it places salvation out of human hands...
Well, of course. Only God has the power save eternal souls. No human has that power.


and takes the onus of acting well off of individuals. Instead, it makes it entirely up to God, which means humans can do whatever they want--We've seen time and time again what evil is caused by that teaching.
Absolutely not true. God never said, "do whatever you want."

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Unsaved people already do whatever they want. Born-again Christians are convicted by the Holy Spirit and God's Word to live right. God has ways to discipline straying Christians. He doesn't let them continue forever doing "whatever."


...the concept of salvation by grace is one of the great failings of the Christian theology, and I hope some day you will realise that and adopt a more action-oriented approach to your religion.
How is salvation by grace alone a "failing"? God makes no mistakes.

Any philosophy that makes salvation by works of man is doomed to failure. Man can never equal the holiness or works of God. Anyone who thinks they have a better plan than God is merely expressing pride in self.

There is an "action-oriented approach" to Christianity. We call it "witnessing". Non-Christians call it "shoving the Bible down our throats."
 
Thank you, Reba, for sharing and helping in this and most of, Reba, give the Lord of all praises for having us as a Body of Christ and what He has done. Oh what Grace is so amazing.
 
So having a different interpretation is horrific, but incalcuable numbers of people slaughtered for no reason other than not being Christians in the Crusades and the Inquisition aren't? I doubt I'm the only one who realises how idiotic that statement is?
It was not born-again, saved Christians who conducted the Crusades and Inquistion. Born-again, saved Christians were themselves persecuted and martyred during the Inquisition. The reason they were persecuted, tortured, and killed was because they believed in salvation by grace alone, not by works, rites, or church membership.
 
christlovedeaf said:
Teresh, I rely on my God whom I worship and oh, how awesome His Grace and mercies I see and His faithfulness. I love the song and its so true, called " I Can Only Imagine".

I'm familiar with the song in question.

christlovedeaf said:
As myself I can only imagine the awe of God. All I rely in my faith in Him alone, regardless of ur disagreement of urs and I don't compare and brag about myself and u.

Who created this thread? You.
What is this thread? A claim that salvation is by grace and not by action.
When was this thread created? After the thread about hell.
Where is this thread? On the religion forum.
Why was this thread created? Because you feel the need to get up on a soapbox and say that if you don't believe in Jesus you're going to hell.

I don't start threads like this because there's no reason to.

christlovedeaf said:
You can claim u know better than me. That doesn't bother me.

You are doing the same. That doesn't really bother me either because I understand not only the fact that you are wrong but why you are wrong. If anything, what bothers me is your blind ignorance and rejection of the concept of learning more.

christlovedeaf said:
Oh how I love to worship Him and know Him better every D-A-Y.

That's nice. You're not alone in that, though I wouldn't refer to God with pronouns.

christlovedeaf said:
You can constantly jabbering your wrong ideas of my beliefs.

You can continue saying your wrong ideas of mine. I don't have the wrong ideas of Christianity per se, I just don't agree with it. Disagreeing with an idea does not mean failure to understand it. If anything, to truly disagree you *must* understand it first. Without understanding it and being able to rationalise it, you can't really accept or refuse to accept any proposed idea.

Reba said:
Well, of course. Only God has the power save eternal souls. No human has that power.

No one said that humans 'have that power', the problem is that you claim that it's entirely up to God and that we can do nothing one way or the other, God smites us or gives us salvation on a whim. The whim in question being based on whether or not one believes.

What that teaches thus is that belief brings about salvation, not what one does in his or her life.

Reba said:
Unsaved people already do whatever they want. Born-again Christians are convicted by the Holy Spirit and God's Word to live right. God has ways to discipline straying Christians. He doesn't let them continue forever doing "whatever."

Heh. That's what we call the No true Scotsman fallacy. "Born-again Christians" are a nonsensical joke that was created by Evangelicals to make them feel good about themselves. A "Born-again Christian" is simply a person who follows the teachings of the one called Christ, that is, of Jesus of Nazareth.

That is precisely the same definition as the word "Christian". What it means to be "Born-again" in the scope of that is the idea that you were originally not a Christian. You were "born again" into Christianity.

The idea here is that somehow by accepting Christianity as a religion when you were originally not you are somehow "better" or "more Christian" than other Christians, a fact that is not at all true. So rather than indicating that you are superior to other Christians, it is instead a statement that you do not see Christianity as something up for discussion. The term "Born-again" indicates that you believe there is one very specific (and narrow) way to be a Christian and that all other forms of Christianity are invalid.

The claim you make therefore is that if one consciously accepts the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth, God will not permit him or her to do wrongs. This is a Christian teaching through and through, but when we look at history we easily see that it has not stood the test of time. You can of course make the claim that the Christians who have committed horrible atrocities against mankind are "not really Christians", but that ignores the fact of the No true Scotsman fallacy. It does not take action against the people in question, it's merely a tool used by Christians to deflect blame from themselves. It allows you to feel that you are good or that you are special and as a special group of Christians you are exempt from responsibility for the actions taken by the wicked in your midst. It allows you to rationally avoid blame while also avoiding being part of a solution to other problems.

Reba said:
How is salvation by grace alone a "failing"? God makes no mistakes.

"Grace" (that is, faith) does not alone a good person make.

Reba said:
Any philosophy that makes salvation by works of man is doomed to failure. Man can never equal the holiness or works of God.

The Jews have been successful for about 4000 years. Are they doomed?

Reba said:
There is an "action-oriented approach" to Christianity. We call it "witnessing". Non-Christians call it "shoving the Bible down our throats."

That's not an action-oriented approach. It brings about salvation according to Christian belief, but it doesn't make anything better in the world, it doesn't alleviate suffering or poverty, it does not treat diseases or console the bereaved, it does not fight against the evil that exists in our world.
 
Well, Teresh, did I ever say you are going to hell, literally? Did I ever say before you said that I know more than you do? Did I ever say you are wrong before you said I'm wrong? The way I see, Teresh, you want ur finally say, by saying sharing ur "beliefs", whenever you points out of ur disagrements, I have my way of sharing why I believe by reply to it as to the point. Its like we christians have to keep our mouths shut and let you point out by ur POV. Like I said many times, I will not hold resentment against you and I have seen many are hurting by ur remarks, and yes, some begins to exculate respnse bec by what you said to them. I don't care what other christians does, and no, that has nothing to do by thinking self superior. It is my responsibility to let God works in me and my way of worshippig in awe. But, honestly, Teresh, from the bottom of my heart, I do love you, inspite of our disagreements. Oh, grace and faith goes to gether, not as the same meaning. Grace is a free gift we don't deserve, bec of His awesome love. And that's been written about no longer old agreement and have His Law in our hearts in the new agreements as in written by Jeremiah in Jer. 31:31
 
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