Is it worth to be "oral"?

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ambrosia said:
Bottesini said:
Of course I don't. It's embarrassing .

But ignoring it is the best way to proceed, in my opinion.

I don't take any garbage from her and she has pretty much learned to leave me alone, but it's also pointless to follow her around trying to correct her misapprehensions. She is not going to learn from any of us.
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I think you're absolutely right and I need to take a page out if your book.
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Think we could all take a page from her book. :)
 
Mewtilation said:
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:laugh2: :laugh2: :rofl: :giggle: I wanted to like it, but the mobile version doesn't seem to allow that.... so far I've not seen the ability anyway... :P
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:D I don't use the mobile version I still just open it up in safari with my iPhone. That's why almost all of my posts have i's where o's should be, I miss almost every time. Anyway I've found that when I'm my phone sometimes I have to enlarge the post and tap around on it a bit to get the "like" to show up so I can hit it ;)
 
VamPyroX said:
Take off your hearing aids (or cochlear implants) and that leaves you with what... deaf.

You will always be deaf. That's the one thing a lot of people get wrong. They get hearing aids (or CIs) that allows them to hear very well... and they immediately consider themselves "cured" or capable of being like hearing people. So, they don't sign or find any need to sign.

Well, take off their hearing aids (or CIs) and they can't hear. Now what? Gonna go crazy trying to find a replacement? What if you can't get your replacement right away. What if you can't afford a replacement. What if your insurance company won't cover the replacement? What now? You're... DEAF! Whoa... shocking news, eh?

In reality, that's up to you... but what I said above is something you should think about.

I consider myself deaf. Yes, I can speak orally with my hearing counterparts... but I have also accepted the fact that I am deaf and do use sign language when with others that use sign language. I find it very convenient when I'm doing something without wearing my hearing aid. I can easily communicate with my wife while swimming, working out, while in bed, while cutting the lawn, etc. I'm not wearing my hearing and and I can still sign to her in times of need.

I could even communicate with other people from across the room when I need to be quiet like in church, a meeting, a crowded assembly, etc. It's moments like these that make me glad that I learned sign language. :)
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Exactly! I find it incredibly ironic that everyone gushes about the benifits of bilingalism............but then when it comes to ASL it's "limiting or a "crutch?"
I also find it very ironic that the oral (meaning totally oral...not just deaf and can talk oral) kids start in with how they feel SO lucky to be a part of the hearing world............and then in their next breath they start complaining about how they don't fit in etc.....
 
A lot of the "how dare you bring up the fact that the oral only experiance isn't all going to the malt shoppe in Bob's jalopy after THE BIG GAME" types almost remind me of a sitution a few years ago.... Also A lot of the protests from certain people almost sound like "how DARE you ruin my perfect fanasty about the issues of being oral deaf in a hearing world?!?!?!?" If there were no issues about being oral deaf in the hearing world, AG Bell,HLAA etc would not exist....b/c the oral deaf would be intergrated seemlessly into the hearing world.....But even sucessful oral deaf adults often say they don't feel like they fit into the hearing world....
I was speaking to a mentally disabled HOH guy who grew up pretty much immersed in the normal IQ/hearing world. He said " I have to be included" when I brought up the idea of a possible specialized program and or regular exposure to other people with his types of challenges...He kept fixtating "I have to be included! I have to be included!" I kept trying to make him understand that he could have exposure to ALL the communities.....hearing,Dhh, mentally disabled....But he kept fixtating...."I HAVE TO BE INCLUDED!" Echos of that in this thread......I don't get it!
Two of my best hearing friends have ADD-ish types of issues....They can hear...they feel like they don't fit into the mainstream....Matter of fact both of them have expressed envy b/c I have access to the Deaf community....they say they wish they were HOH so they could have a place to belong!
Why is it SO important to conform to the ideal of the mainstream majority for dhh and other people with disabilties?!?!? Why are those of us who advocate for specialized communities, spaces of our own, and use of specialized stuff (like ASL,Braille wheelchairs etc) treated like we're some archaic population that is behind the times......The mainstream world isn't all that great either......it's painted as some sort of glorious utopia by assimulationists, who then snarl and attack you if you even dare to suggest there's anything wrong with the mainstream!
 
deafdyke said:
Exactly! I find it incredibly ironic that everyone gushes about the benifits of bilingalism............but then when it comes to ASL it's "limiting or a "crutch?"
I also find it very ironic that the oral (meaning totally oral...not just deaf and can talk oral) kids start in with how they feel SO lucky to be a part of the hearing world............and then in their next breath they start complaining about how they don't fit in etc.....[/QUOTE]

I always found that amusing.
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There is a difference having the ability to interact and communicate while acknowleging your hearing loss to yourself and to your hearing peers, friends and families who are aware and understand your limitations. They will accomodate and adjust because *YOU* make sure they understand that versus trying to "fit in" without any means of accomodation or adjustment pretending to them that you are hearing everything. Those who try and "fit in" dont have the balls to acknowledge their own limitations and to others. There is no trying to "fit in" if you are able to interact fully with the necessary accomodation and/or adjustments that compliment your communication needs whether it is verbal or visual communications (or both).

I refuse to be a part of a closed society and limit myself only to a particular group. I make sure the people I come into contact with know and understand MY limitations. If adjustments and/or accomodation can be done, great! If not then I dont put myself into a situation where I would end up limiting myself. I have preferences and needs that best fits me and not about trying to "fit in." Trying to "fit in" means you are pretending to understand what is going on around you. This is no different for a deaf, hh or hearing person with limited fluency in sign language or none at all who request some kind of accomodation on what others have signed than for a deaf or hh person who request some kind of accomodation on what others have said verbally.

Believe it or not there are many deaf and hh people who sign and try to "fit in" into a culturally deaf group or gathering pretending to understand everything 100% that was signed. Instead of ensuring that they are accomodating themselves they end up pretending to be a part of the group nodding their heads and fooling themselves. Sound familiar? Anybody who think that trying to "fit in" is just a deaf or hh situation in a hearing world is clearly delusional and dont understand the complexity here. There are three worlds with a variety of overlaps when it comes to communication needs and preferences and they are the deaf, hard of hearing and hearing worlds.

"Fitting in" in a hearing world? How so blind and one dimensional thinking that is.
I still have great hearing friends who understand. I have great co-workers and supervisor, too. I have great deaf and hh friends as well.
 
I dont live in a bubble. I see reality for what it is.
 
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Always wanted to be in one of those clear bubbles that let's you walk on water... bubbles are fun. :D
 
Bottesini said:
What about Keller? She was famously oralist, although people tactile spelled to her because of her blindness.
For yourself, you should proceed with whatever makes you comfortable and reduces your anxiety.
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Oralist??? I knew she is a friend of AGB. From what I read, it sounds like she wanted to learn to speak as a personal challenge. Like Edmund Hillary wanted to climbed Mount Everest because it is there.
 
sylbea said:
Precisely. We've got to cope with the real ("hearing") world somehow, and in some ways it can be seen as an opportunity to maximise rather than to restrict - even if that means having to play to our limitations as well as our strengths.

Sign language is indeed crucial to communication and culture. Lack of awareness among the majority on deafness and Deaf culture is the reason for limited resources in education, which makes it easy for those to either keep to themselves or go mainstream. If we can take concrete action on this matter, by bridging the gaps in knowledge and our rights for equality, that option will become more readily available, and will give a new meaning to oralism.
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Bingo! You hit right on the head of the nail.
 
Buffalo said:
Oralist??? I knew she is a friend of AGB. From what I read, it sounds like she wanted to learn to speak as a personal challenge. Like Edmund Hillary wanted to climbed Mount Everest because it is there.
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Yes, she is quite famous for her stance and influence.

Despite her having learned to communicate by signing, Keller was an advocate of oralism, much to the chagrin of those who championed sign language. Oralism is a method used to teach children with little hearing ability how to articulate words learned from lip reading and by touch. While oralism techniques have fallen into disuse and have been criticized by members of the deaf community, Keller labeled oralism "one of the divinest miracles of the nineteenth century." Partly as a result of receiving her endorsement, oralism was taught to many deaf children early in the 20th century, and proponents of oralism often sought to remove sign language instruction from schools
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Helen Keller and Learning Sign Language | eHow
 
I still feel sort of uncomfortable with the title of this thread. The word "worth" implies some judgement based upon one's values. To say that it is worth being oral implies that the opposite is true for the none-oral approach. I admit I now have the wisdom of hindsight: in my youth I took great pride in my speech quality and considered myself superior to those who could not speak. Since then, though, I have learned not to judge others on that basis. I am confident the same will happen to others here. Oh well.l
 
Buffalo said:
The Orange Deafie Blog: Major Misdiagnosis! - Deaf People Trapped In The Mental Health Gulag
Deafness Mistaken for Mental Retardation - When Deaf People Were Mislabeled as Retarded
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Nothing in the links talk specifically about people with MILD hearing loss who were misdiagnosed as mentally retarded. I am talking about current examples and not something that had happened 20, 50 or 80 years ago whereby the given examples were those who were deaf and required sign language to communicate (save a few different examples). I was very specific on the hearing loss amount of those with mild hearing loss and not those who are deaf, unable to hear anything who require sign language to communicate.
 
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I noticed that with some oral deaf people, they say they fit in fine with the hearing world and are all about feeling content. If so, then why put others down in several other threads and in the Internet world? Just find it interesting.

At least I am honest with my anger for being placed in a restrictive environment where I couldn't thrive to my fullest all for the sake of "oralism".
 
kokonut said:
Nothing in the links talk specifically about people with MILD hearing loss who were misdiagnosed as mentally retarded. I am talking about current examples and not something that had happened 20, 50 or 80 years ago whereby the given examples were those who were deaf and required sign language to communicate (save a few different examples). I was very specific on the hearing loss amount of those with mild hearing loss and not those who are deaf, unable to hear anything who require sign language to communicate.
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Kokonut really? Then what do you call this?
From About Deafness visitors:
...I really related to your story about misdiagosed children (deaf, labeled retarded). I found out about my hearing problem in 2nd grade. In 4th grade, my teacher would hit me and call me retarded, because I didn't hear her. She didn't believe I was deaf, she thought I was ignoring her or stupid. All my childhood classmates from then on treated me like I was stupid. When I graduated from high school, with a Regents Scholarship, one of my classmates (who I had gone to school with since grammar school) stopped me in the hall to congratuate me, and she said to me that she was surprised I won that scholarship, as she really thought I was retarted. That is when I realized that my whole life was affected because of that one teacher.

...I was born with a mild hearing loss and no one picked up on it. When I was in the first grade the teachers thought I was mentally retarded. They advised my parents to put me into a mental institution
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And to add,from that same link..............
All of my life I have had to prove to people that I am not mentally retarded. I have had two supervisors who told me they thought I was mentally retarded and one was surprised that I wasn't
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. This is from a person with MILD loss!
 
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