Can you tell me about oral successes?

I've always wondered what constitutes an oral success when that "oral success" child leaves home and learns ASL instantly. Do those children hate being oral or the work that goes into it? It's been discussed on this board. I was an ASL user from age 2, but also had speech therapy. I speak well enough to be understood, so I suppose I'm an "oral success". But I far prefer ASL. So much easier !! After all, when your ears don't work right, why make it harder?
 
Thank you. I understand now (I think). I didn't mean to imply that oral-only was a wonderful thing, I was just curious about how well people can manage to do in spite of it. Also, I'm really sorry (and just a little bit horrified!) to have caused even the small flame war I did. What an entrance, huh?

Bebonang and BecLak-- that sounds really difficult. It's impressive that you did that (and I don't meant to imply that it was right to make you, I'm just impressed because it seems really hard).

I'm wary of assuming I know what I'm talking about now, but that sounds familiar to me. Not just from my own experiences-- I know a lot of people with various disabilities (I know a lot of you disagree that you'd fit in that category, but this is my only analogy, so bear with me for a minute) who spent their childhoods being trained into trying to pretend to be normal/nondisabled, to the detriment of being able to actually function. And for them, sometimes they finally grow up and decide to do things the way that works instead of the way that makes them seem normal or the way that makes things easier for the people around them at their own expense. So, what Bebonang and BecLak just described makes me think of that; is it the same kind of thing for oral deaf? Does it make people feel alone/inadequate/incapable in the same ways? Would that be why some of the Deaf here seem a little bitter toward oralism? I want to say "if so, then I think I can understand that" (having felt bitter over things like that myself) but maybe I'm off base here with this analogy.

Also, will it annoy anyone if I go back to asking questions? I can try to give them some semblance of logic and not jump from one thing to the next all the time if that will make me less annoying, although given that I'm coming at it from three different angles at once I'm not sure how organized it's possible to even be.

By the way, AlleyCat, that is really cool. In your opinion, is that a good general strategy (to teach ASL early and also teach speech)? Are you glad to have learned to talk, or do you feel like you could have used that time better if you'd only learned ASL?
 
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Oralism angers me because it is usually enforced by Audists, without any consideration for the dhh child. It rarely is a personal choice. In the majority of cases it was/is an experiment by the medical professionals first with hearing aids and then with CIs. Some oral-deaf remain that way because that is all they have known. Some think it's necessary in their everyday life to survive in the hearing world. Whatever our personal reasons is fine as long as there is the all important thing: choice. Some just simply can't and it should never be forced on them. Basic human rights should be respected. If some like myself, choose not to be oral, that should be respected also.
 
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deafdyke said:
Anij said:
Of course (in the 4 I saw) we don't really see her interacting with others ... so while she may speak well (?) etc ... it only gives one side of the equation.

For most of us (as you know GrendelQ) it's not the talking side, but the listening/understanding side of conversations which are the most challenging and hard to "fake".
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That's not to say that speaking is easy. Most of us approach it as a forign language, and it ALSO takes a lot of energy. Those of us who are dhh learn the same vocal techniques that singers and actors use. Imagine how exhausting it would be to constantly use those techniques (which most hearing people don't use)
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:cheers:
 
I'm wary of assuming I know what I'm talking about now, but that sounds familiar to me. Not just from my own experiences-- I know a lot of people with various disabilities (I know a lot of you disagree that you'd fit in that category, but this is my only analogy, so bear with me for a minute) who spent their childhoods being trained into trying to pretend to be normal/nondisabled, to the detriment of being able to actually function. And for them, sometimes they finally grow up and decide to do things the way that works instead of the way that makes them seem normal or the way that makes things easier for the people around them at their own expense. So, what Bebonang and BecLak just described makes me think of that; is it the same kind of thing for oral deaf? Does it make people feel alone/inadequate/incapable in the same ways? Would that be why some of the Deaf here seem a little bitter toward oralism? I want to say "if so, then I think I can understand that" (having felt bitter over things like that myself) but maybe I'm off base here with this analogy.
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No, that's perfect!!!! 100% perfect! I have poor fine motor skills, almost like CP (cerebal palsy) Growing up I was forced into occupational therapy and assumed that ALL I needed was to function "normally" by manually writing. Guess what? It took A LOT of energy. I was expending ALL my energies on manually writing, instead of producing CONTENT. Guess what? When I was introduced to keyboarding, I could write much faster, and produce a lot more stuff............
 
RandomHearie said:
What do oral "successes" sound like? Do they have noticeable accents? If you're good at talking, do people ask you where you're from? Do they think you have some kind of cognitive impairment? Or do they pretend not to notice anything?

How well can lipreading work? Assuming you're really good at it, what does that mean? Does it mean you can carry on a normal conversation? Are there specific words or sounds that make that harder? And would you be able to figure out if someone whose lips you were trying to read was actually speaking some other language that you didn't understand?

And do people who were raised oral ever decide to learn ASL and become part of the Deaf community? Is that odd, or does it happen a lot? Are they well-received if they do?
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Oral Success? well..I wouldn't call it a success. To answer your questions I am constantly asked where I'm from. I do have an accent that is not southern since I'm from the southern states and should have a twang to my speech. My speech therapist gave me a Swedish/new york accent. :laugh2: As for cognitive impairment? :giggle:yes, I am treated as though I'm mentally retarded depending on the person I'm speaking to or just out right ignored ( at work ) as if I don't exist or as if I wasn't speaking at all. It kills the soul, literally but I know what they don't...my IQ is 148:D:laugh2:. ah, hearies, hearies, hearies...if only they knew.
Lip reading can work well if you are good at it. I'm very good at lip reading but have difficulty reading men with beards and mustaches. It's also difficult to discern words that look the same on the lips regardless of the context of the conversation. I do not trust my lip reading 100 percent but it gets me by more than my hearing aids do. As for lip reading another language...I'm not trying to say this question is stupid BUT for me I'm shaking my head answering it for you. Facial expressions and how the persons jaw line, muscles move give away at least to me if they are from a different country. We had a russian lady at work and she was difficult to read-I don't just read lips I read the entire face, the muscles in the neck, cheeks and even how the ears move. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who does this :).

do we learn ASL as we get older-some of us do, others don't. As for the other question I have no personal experience with being rejected by other Deafs but someone else here may shed light on that.

I was polite in my own way-if I offended you. I'm not sorry.:laugh2:
 
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Thank you, FadedRose, I would never have guessed some of that! Why would you think you offended me? I could imagine the other way around, considering past experience on this same thread, but... well, I'm glad you're not sorry for helping me? Thank you so much.

deafdyke, yeah, that kind of thing I know about. I liked OT, though.
 
RandomHearie said:
Thank you, FadedRose, I would never have guessed some of that! Why would you think you offended me? I could imagine the other way around, considering past experience on this same thread, but... well, I'm glad you're not sorry for helping me? Thank you so much.

deafdyke, yeah, that kind of thing I know about. I liked OT, though.
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Well, RandomHearie-you seem rather "sensitive"...hence the I'm not sorry if I offended you comment. :P I did read the above posts you made...

I find your nervousness as it comes across the screen endearing. I picture a grown man wincing in pain with every word he reads. :laugh2:

Stick around-ask questions. If you piss anyone off ah, it's not the end of the world. You are very brave for coming here I might add AND that is being said with a hint of sarcasm.:lol:.

We're a blunt bunch that's for sure.
 
deafdyke said:
That's not to say that speaking is easy. Most of us approach it as a forign language, and it ALSO takes a lot of energy. Those of us who are dhh learn the same vocal techniques that singers and actors use. Imagine how exhausting it would be to constantly use those techniques (which most hearing people don't use)
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I was born hearing and still had residual hearing (fairly good) on one side as I was growing up. My parents mainstreamed me and rather than putting me in "speech therapy" (because I couldn't really be HoH, you know) I was in singing lessons (don't ask :jaw:) for years.

I've gotten to the point I am not always able to gauge how loud I'm talking and because I was taught to "project" my voice to the back of a theatre for all I know I'm blowing people's hair back like that photo of a guy listening to his stereo. So yes, I was taught all the vocal techniques actors and singers use.

In large part I can be a "silent Sam" sort of person as I'm afraid I'll break into a conversation when I've missed a cue and the other person is still talking - I have often talked over someone else and have been thought rude. At other times I take over the oral conversation for about the same reason - I am not sure of the rules of the road.

With my hearing aid and iCom I can do a phone call, although I'd rather text.
 
mcg907 said:
I was born hearing and still had residual hearing (fairly good) on one side as I was growing up. My parents mainstreamed me and rather than putting me in "speech therapy" (because I couldn't really be HoH, you know) I was in singing lessons (don't ask :jaw:) for years.

I've gotten to the point I am not always able to gauge how loud I'm talking and because I was taught to "project" my voice to the back of a theatre for all I know I'm blowing people's hair back like that photo of a guy listening to his stereo. So yes, I was taught all the vocal techniques actors and singers use.

In large part I can be a "silent Sam" sort of person as I'm afraid I'll break into a conversation when I've missed a cue and the other person is still talking - I have often talked over someone else and have been thought rude. At other times I take over the oral conversation for about the same reason - I am not sure of the rules of the road.

With my hearing aid and iCom I can do a phone call, although I'd rather text.
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this is exactly why oral only is so deeply flawed!
 
deafdrummer said:
Yes, lip-reading is an extremely complicated guessing game that requires very rapid, adaptive algorithms. The worse your hearing is, the more gaps you have to fill in until finally, nothing your algorithms come up with makes sense. There is only so far you can go with missing information. Sometimes, you realize at the end of the decoding that what you came up with is wrong, and you have to go back and refigure it within a second or two.
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Yes. YES. YES!!!! :shock: :eek3:
 
deafdyke said:
this is exactly why oral only is so deeply flawed!
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I do so wish that I had been given a bilingual education - ASL and English. I could hear enough (mostly) to do sort of okay in mainstream school, but if I'd had both I would be so much better off now.

Then again, when I was a child there was just Deaf School or living at home and going to mainstream school. So my parents put me in a Catholic school and that was quite an experience - lip reading and correlating the sound I got with the speech for all those years.

I used to be exhausted at the end of every day and had blinding headaches.
 
CrazyPaul said:
I have never heard of deaf people who attend ASL classes. Deaf people who didn't know ASL learned it by socializing with deaf people who use ASL. It'd save your money.
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We do in the Boston area. I know a lot of seriously HoH or oral deaf who go to Deaf Inc. in Allston. $200 per class. Ouch! But after about 3 classes and one immersion for a week I am using apps and going to meetups. There are a number of Deaf who come to meetups and interestingly, the oral Deaf are working feverishly to improve their ASL skills.
 
CrazyPaul said:
I have never heard of deaf people who attend ASL classes. Deaf people who didn't know ASL learned it by socializing with deaf people who use ASL. It'd save your money.
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I was born deaf and I attended ASL classes because I never was allowed to learn ASL growing up.
 
mcg907 said:
I do so wish that I had been given a bilingual education - ASL and English. I could hear enough (mostly) to do sort of okay in mainstream school, but if I'd had both I would be so much better off now.

Then again, when I was a child there was just Deaf School or living at home and going to mainstream school. So my parents put me in a Catholic school and that was quite an experience - lip reading and correlating the sound I got with the speech for all those years.

I used to be exhausted at the end of every day and had blinding headaches.
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I know....speech is useful, BUT if you'd had ASL TOO, you could have achieved so much more.....and it wouldn't have been so energy consuming. THAT is what hearing people do not understand....while many of us can develop speech skills, speaking and hearing takes a LOT of energy....exactly like how I was forced to manually write. (I have poor fine motor skills simlair to someone with mild cerebal palsy) I could do it, but it took a HELL of a lot of energy. I was working so hard to correctly move the pen, that I did not have enough energy to produce CONTENT. It took a HELL of a lot out of me....then I was taught to keyboard, and I can now produce a hell of a lot more quality content. Same thing applies with oral only.....
You're that old that it was an either or situation when it came to education? MA now has regional dhh programs.
 
sorry to just randomly pop into this post..but i read and it struck a chord with me :D i am 16 & i am deaf...wa sborn with a minor hearing loss that got worse as i got odler..i am dyslexic and i have tried to teach myself nzsl but i can't do it as it is too complex for me and my hands/fingers wont cooperate...same with fingerspelling and gestures..does anybody have any other ways i can communicate?? i think with words...so i find sign language amazingly beautiful but it confuses me so so much because i cant visualize it...
 
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