Rand Paul illegally detained at airport

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naisho said:
It's a bit of a gray area, the way I see it.
Technically Senator Paul didn't do anything wrong except set off the alarm and didn't like the idea of being frisked. Some articles stated he went through another one later without setting it off.

I've seen cases where people next to me in line at the TSA had something that set them off, they forgot a belt or coin or something. Sometimes, I've wondered if my HA's would set it off but it hasn't to date yet.

I'm just glad he doesn't have intentions to sue the TSA or something over constitution rights. It would be a good case or publicity for him, but in the end us taxpayers would end up paying for the gov's mistake if so.
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Are you being serious???? I am disappointed he is not filing suit. That is the ONLY WAY we can get this nonsense to stop.
 
BTW Whoever mentioned a speech at a shopping mall, if you talking about this incident, he was scheduled to speak on the National Mall in Wash. Google it and you will see that it's a large outdoor "mall" between the Capital & the Washington Monument.
 
Reba said:
Ah, so he did have a vote to attend to.
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yep, at 5.30pm. what time was he detained? like 8 or 9 in the morning? even he said himself he was "briefly" detained. how long is the flight from kentucky to washington? an hour at most?

so, there was quite a long period of time between when he was "briefly" detained and when he had to be in senate for the vote. one would think from your post that he was in imminent danger of missing the roll call. he wasn't. not at all.

i dont think it's abnormal to question someone after they've flat out refused to a pat down even though they knew before entering security check that if they choose to refuse, they shouldn't enter the screening and are free to leave.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Didn't Bush's Homeland Security department have much to do with increased screening at airports and thus granted more power to TSA?
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Congress created it, Bush signed it into law. At any rate, Bush has been out of office long enough for the current Congress or administration to do something about if they were so inclined.

Really, everything wrong with the government is not about Bush.
 
LoveBlue said:
BTW Whoever mentioned a speech at a shopping mall, if you talking about this incident, he was scheduled to speak on the National Mall in Wash. Google it and you will see that it's a large outdoor "mall" between the Capital & the Washington Monument.
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that was me.
 
DeafCaroline said:
so, there was quite a long period of time between when he was "briefly" detained and when he had to be in senate for the vote. one would think from your post that he was in imminent danger of missing the roll call. he wasn't. not at all.
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and one would think from your posts that he wasn't going to a vote at all.

I am pretty sure that when Congress has a vote there are sometimes last minute things a Congresscritter might want to see to or discuss with his staff.

But since you believe TSA is Bush's baby, why so hasty to defend them?
 
Grayma said:
Congress created it, Bush signed it into law. At any rate, Bush has been out of office long enough for the current Congress or administration to do something about if they were so inclined.

Really, everything wrong with the government is not about Bush.
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do you know how hard it is to undo the law or to pass bills through Congress? And it would be particularly difficult if not impossible to undo Homeland Security department and all the acts regarding secret spying on Americans etc etc.

the republicans are not going to do that since it was one of their own who signed the bills and the democrats are just going to face stalemate in congress again if they tried.
 
Grayma said:
and one would think from your posts that he wasn't going to a vote at all.

I am pretty sure that when Congress has a vote there are sometimes last minute things a Congresscritter might want to see to or discuss with his staff.

But since you believe TSA is Bush's baby, why so hasty to defend them?
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where did I defend TSA? I never did.

he wasn't on his way to a vote that he would have missed thanks to missing his flight to Washington. And even in the media, he talked far more about missing the rally than his concern about missing a Senate vote.

So, all this brouhaha about him being detained and missing the Senate vote was for naught in the end. He had plenty of time to make it.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Ok, please post a link, any link whatsoever that says it's unconstitutional to detain a politician for refusing a patdown after he set off the alarm....
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The US Constitution itself says a Congressman shall not be detained from traveling to the Capitol. I've posted that source. The Constitution doesn't require further links.

Obviously the Constitution doesn't enumerate every possible way that a Congressman might be detained. Patting down, lassoing with a rope, tackling, pulling up a drawbridge, blockades, shooting out his car tires, whatever--it's not allowed if it interferes with his travel to the Capitol.
 
Grayma said:
The Mall is not a shopping mall. It's a large public space amongst the various monuments and government buildings in DC. Like a giant green. A public square.
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tell that to the lobbyists.
 
DeafCaroline said:
yep, at 5.30pm. what time was he detained? like 8 or 9 in the morning? even he said himself he was "briefly" detained. how long is the flight from kentucky to washington? an hour at most?

so, there was quite a long period of time between when he was "briefly" detained and when he had to be in senate for the vote. one would think from your post that he was in imminent danger of missing the roll call. he wasn't. not at all.

i dont think it's abnormal to question someone after they've flat out refused to a pat down even though they knew before entering security check that if they choose to refuse, they shouldn't enter the screening and are free to leave.
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Oh, and everyone involved knew for a fact that a later flight would be available, and that there would be no further delays? So that supersedes the Constitution? Where does it say that in the Constitution?

Paul was headed for the Capitol for a vote, and the TSA detained him and interfered with his scheduled arrival in DC. There's no spinning around that.
 
Reba said:
The US Constitution itself says a Congressman shall not be detained from traveling to the Capitol. I've posted that source. The Constitution doesn't require further links.

Obviously the Constitution doesn't enumerate every possible way that a Congressman might be detained. Patting down, lassoing with a rope, tackling, pulling up a drawbridge, blockades, shooting out his car tires, whatever--it's not allowed if it interferes with his travel to the Capitol.
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ok, let's play semantics for a bit...what if he was on his way to the Capitol the day before a vote? is it illegal to detain him for setting off an alarm even if the detainment was only let's say 10 minutes?

Now, what if he's on his way to the Capitol where he has to be in Senate within let's say 12 hours? is it really detainment if he had more than enough time to make the roll call, even after a brief period of questioning by airport security who probably wondered what he was hiding because he refused to a patdown.

At what point is it TRUE detainment? when a senator is truly in danger of not being able to conduct business in congress which didn't happen with Rand or is it detainment at any time a Congressman goes to DC?

Know what I mean?

And lastly, what would you think if you were right there witnessing a politician setting off an alarm then refusing to submit to any patdowns afterwards? Wouldn't it make you raise an eyebrow and wonder why such a big fuss over a few seconds of patting?
 
DeafCaroline said:
do you know how hard it is to undo the law or to pass bills through Congress? And it would be particularly difficult if not impossible to undo Homeland Security department and all the acts regarding secret spying on Americans etc etc.

the republicans are not going to do that since it was one of their own who signed the bills and the democrats are just going to face stalemate in congress again if they tried.
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Let's just hope that if a bill doing away with a lot of the Homeland Security TSA stuff comes up for a vote in Congress that Rand Paul isn't late because he missed his flight. :lol:
 
This is just the way TSA conducts business. Makes driving that much more enjoyable. :hmm:

TSA's Biggest Scandals "The Daily Beast"

Published - Jan 23 2012 12:27PM EST

1. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) is a libertarian who believes in limited government intervention. So it's no surprise that he refused a TSA pat-down in the Nashville airport today, even after an "anomaly" with the body scanner. His dad, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), who is running for president, posted on his Facebook page that Rand asked to be scanned a second time, but the agency rejected the offer. The senator was then reportedly detained for failing to comply with agents.

2. The TSA stumbled into Cupcake Gate in December when an agent confiscated a passenger's frosted snack at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas. The cupcake's frosting was too similar to a gel and thus violated the TSA's liquid restrictions. After a minor media firestorm, a TSA spokesman said that passengers are, in fact, allowed to bring cupcakes on flights.

3. A Long Island grandmother alleged that TSA agents at JFK International Airport strip-searched her. Lenore Zimmerman, 85, said she asked to forgo the body scanner because of her defibrillator, but said she was then whisked into a room where two agents undressed her. At the time, the TSA claimed it did not strip-search, but later admitted wrongdoing.

4. Eighty-nine-year-old Ruth Sherman was also at Kennedy airport when she was reportedly told to pull down her pants and show her colostomy bag to screeners. The TSA said she was never asked to remove her clothing, but Sherman strongly disputes that claim. "They asked me to pull my sweatpants down, and now they're not telling you the truth," said Sherman, who uses a wheelchair.

5. It's common for a traveler to find a note in her luggage, informing her that it has been inspected. But blogger Jill Filipovic got a little something extra on her note when she opened her suitcase after a flight from Newark to Dublin, Ireland. Someone wrote "GET YOUR FREAK ON GIRL" after finding a "personal item" in her bag. The TSA initially said there was no evidence suggesting one of its agents left the message, but later said it found the employee who did it and removed the person from screening duties.

6. File this under unfortunate. Back in June, TSA officials forced an elderly woman to remove her adult diaper for screening. The 95-year-old cancer patient was patted down by officials when they found something "wet" and "firm," and she had to walk through the airport without underwear, according to family members. The TSA defended its agents, saying they followed protocol.

7. Could that 6-year-old waiting in the security line be a terrorist? Sometimes the TSA thinks so. The agency has come under fire for patting down children. Perhaps the most famous example is the video a bystander shot of a young boy at the Salt Lake City airport in November 2010. The TSA agents selected the boy for additional screening after he set off a metal detector. When the boy wouldn't keep his arms raised for the pat-down, his frustrated father removed his shirt and gave it to the agents to inspect.
 
Reba said:
Oh, and everyone involved knew for a fact that a later flight would be available, and that there would be no further delays? So that supersedes the Constitution? Where does it say that in the Constitution?

Paul was headed for the Capitol for a vote, and the TSA detained him and interfered with his scheduled arrival in DC. There's no spinning around that.
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hm. he was scheduled to be at a rally which was all he missed in the end, not the Senate vote. The TSA didn't make him miss that.
 
Reba said:
Let's just hope that if a bill doing away with a lot of the Homeland Security TSA stuff comes up for a vote in Congress that Rand Paul isn't late because he missed his flight. :lol:
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Damn it Reba. You made me laugh.
 
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