This is what happens

saywhatkid said:
Looks like MADD has made a difference. Also, the early years of the chart, I believe that under 21 could still drink legally in some areas.
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Statistically, MADD has made no difference at all in alcohol consumption in this country. They are, once again, attempting to make a difference using the same ineffective methodology that has been used all along.
 
Banjo said:
Drinking alcohol can lead to disinhibition. Just look at Mel Gibson. He made quite a few colourful remarks about the Jews. He really does think that way of them. Otherwise, he wouldn't have said it in the first place.
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Mel Gibson is a racist, and made comments towards many races not only Jews, when not drinking. He is plain and outright racist. He does not need alcohol to show his true colors.

Anyhoo, Alcohol can effect people judgement, cause them to do and think things they normally do not think and do.
 
TXgolfer said:
Koko has something in post 94. Again it was all over the news there. You can choose to believe or not. No biggie to me either way. :)
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If it was "all over the news" then you should be able to find a news report that states that the attackers were "drunks".
 
Babyblue said:
Mel Gibson is a racist, and made comments towards many races not only Jews, when not drinking. He is plain and outright racist. He does not need alcohol to show his true colors.

Anyhoo, Alcohol can effect people judgement, cause them to do and think things they normally do not think and do.
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While it makes it easier for them to do things that in a non-disinhibited state they would not do because they are better able to control their behavior, it does not make them think things that are not already there. A non-violent person does not become violent just because he/she consumes alcohol. Someone with a propensity to violence will commit violence with less provocation when they are under the influence of alcohol.
 
Babyblue said:
Mel Gibson is a racist, and made comments towards many races not only Jews, when not drinking. He is plain and outright racist. He does not need alcohol to show his true colors.

Anyhoo, Alcohol can effect people judgement, cause them to do and think things they normally do not think and do.
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Yep.
 
kokonut said:
Sure, it's about breaking down the inhibition. There's no denying that. Alcohol does that. And can lead to making bad decisions, bad behaviors, and amplify ones own inner personality. Each person respond differently to the inebriating effects of alcohol.
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All of that occurs without the added effects of alcohol, as well. Again, you are blaming the substance when the responsiblity lies within the individual. You even admit that in your last sentence.

Just because people who are already prone to violence should not consume alcohol doesn not mean that those who do not commit violent acts and consume alcohol responsibly should be denied their right to drink if they so choose. You seem to think that taking away the rights of all simply because a minority abuses that right is a solution. Wrong.
 
Violence is going to happen with or without alcohol. Alcohol only allows it happen with less provocation. We need to address the issues underlying the violent attitudes and behaviors. Unless we do, we will continue to see more and more of incidents such as this.
 
jillio said:
Statistically, MADD has made no difference at all in alcohol consumption in this country. They are, once again, attempting to make a difference using the same ineffective methodology that has been used all along.
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So, using the context in which I made my comment, would you agree that drinkers are getting better at avoiding death in auto accidents? What other reasons could there be? The statistics are right there; a steady decrease. Is it due to increased enforcement? Stiffer penalties?
 
jillio said:
Violence is going to happen with or without alcohol. Alcohol only allows it happen with less provocation. We need to address the issues underlying the violent attitudes and behaviors. Unless we do, we will continue to see more and more of incidents such as this.
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There you go. From "Giants suck!" to fisticuffs in the blink of an eye. I know exactly what alcohol rage is like. It takes someone that has anger and magnifies it.
 
saywhatkid said:
So, using the context in which I made my comment, would you agree that drinkers are getting better at avoiding death in auto accidents? What other reasons could there be? The statistics are right there; a steady decrease. Is it due to increased enforcement? Stiffer penalties?
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Increased rates of monitoring and arrest, for one thing. Age differentials in the population could easily be another. Air bags and other safety mechanisms that were not available in the past could be another. Better medical treatment that saves lives that were not able to be saved in the past could be another. Many,many variables impact these numbers.
Just because you see a decrease does not mean that you can assign cause and effect. There are any number of variables that could be responsible for the decrease. To just jump up and say it is all the result of MADD is just silly.
 
saywhatkid said:
So, using the context in which I made my comment, would you agree that drinkers are getting better at avoiding death in auto accidents? What other reasons could there be? The statistics are right there; a steady decrease. Is it due to increased enforcement? Stiffer penalties?
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Better car design, better braking technology, air bags, better laws (e.g. New Mexico's law for DUI offenders who must breathe into a device before driving), and, of course, more sobriety check points. All I favor but alcoholic consumption to the point over the legal limit and inebriation are still a problem. Sadly, tho.
 
jillio said:
If they weren't a part of American society, they would not be up on the net, now would they?
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Do you realize how easy it is to develop a web presence? One doesn't need a large or viable organization in order to throw up a hateful website.

Just because you choose to ignore them doesn't mean they don't exist.
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I never said that. Just because I don't dwell on the hate and ugliness in the world doesn't mean I'm not aware of it.

It just means that you choose to be naive about the hatred being spread throughout our society.
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Or, it could mean that you choose to seek out and feed on the hatred that's out there in the world (not just "our society" unless that's to where you limit your search).

It's not healthy to focus on the dark side.
 
saywhatkid said:
There you go. From "Giants suck!" to fisticuffs in the blink of an eye. I know exactly what alcohol rage is like. It takes someone that has anger and magnifies it.
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Right. So the alcohol is not the issue. The individual's rage is the issue. Removing the alcohol does not remove or deal with the rage. It just postpones the eruption.
 
Reba said:
Do you realize how easy it is to develop a web presence? One doesn't need a large or viable organization in order to throw up a hateful website.


I never said that. Just because I don't dwell on the hate and ugliness in the world doesn't mean I'm not aware of it.


Or, it could mean that you choose to seek out and feed on the hatred that's out there in the world (not just "our society" unless that's to where you limit your search).

It's not healthy to focus on the dark side.
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That does not change the fact that it is still a facet of American society.

It is less healthy to ignore it's existence.
 
jillio said:
Right. So the alcohol is not the issue. The individual's rage is the issue. Removing the alcohol does not remove or deal with the rage. It just postpones the eruption.
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That is a good thing, no? Or should we encourage frequent drinking as a method of anger management? Better to not keep it bottled up, you know?
 
jillio said:
Someone, somewhere got the message that it is acceptable. That is the problem. People are horrified after something like this happens. If they were checking the messages being implicity given, things like this could be prevented.
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Some people are fully capable of doing senseless violence without any help from "messages."

We attempt to battle hatred with more hatred and it grows and grows and grows.
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I didn't read anything in the linked story that said anyone wanted to "battle hatred with more hatred." There was no mention of anyone seeking revenge. The focus seemed to be more about the victim's recovery.
 
jillio said:
The individual's rage is the issue. Removing the alcohol does not remove or deal with the rage. It just postpones the eruption.
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saywhatkid said:
That is a good thing, no? Or should we encourage frequent drinking as a method of anger management? Better to not keep it bottled up, you know?
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jillio said:
What in the world are you talking about?
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Start from the top. Pretty easy to move from point A to point B, even though it is a ridiculous thing.
 
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