A hate crime....

TXgolfer said:
I certainly did, Charging a person with an additional "hate charge" in a violent crime in no way affects the sentencing in Crack vs Coke. :lol:
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You are really confused now.:cool2: That is not what you were replying to earlier.
 
TXgolfer said:
Nah that is why we have different laws such as manslaughter. You are just not thinking it through.



Yep, but there are different degrees of beating of course and the punishment varies. But as I said "assuming all other factors are the same"
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And that is why we have difference in sentencing based on hate crimes.:cool2:

Check and check mate.
 
TXgolfer said:
Then what about the women? There is also a larger differential in the Asian population yet Asians are a protected minority by "Hate crime laws"

It's funny because people are arguing Crack vs Coke saying they have different sentences based on race, yet they WANT different sentences for the same assault if race was involved. Strange logic
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I honestly don't know all the reasons why the ratio of men:women in jail are 14:1. There could be a lot of social, psychological factors or something going on during the court. Social-psychology would indicate reason for being involved in a crime: men may vary from women for why they commit crimes.

Like if a guy needed money, he might rob a kwik-e mart or the bank. A woman on the other hand can just become promiscuous as a service for money, slave herself. Who is more likely to be caught and jailed?

It makes me think of women who suspectedly or convictedly thought to have murdered their children: (Casey Anthony, Susan Smith, maybe even JonBenet Ramsey case) You on the other hand, as a male, might not see yourself kiling your children - domestically or corporally punishment you might be more inclined to do, but maybe a woman is more likely to kill them. I don't have numbers for these, but it is just a thought in my head for an explanation to why this 1:14 figure seems weird.
 
jillio said:
To say 'I long for the Bush and Reagan years again" and show concern for the African American community is diametrically opposed.
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I've spent a large part of my life working in a North Philadelphia black community trying to help dually diagnosed drug addicts.

I've watched year after year go by and the conditions continue to get worse.

I've watched politicians in bed with the teachers union continue to produce schools that dropout rates get higher and higher every year.

I've watched politicians protect teachers unions who donate to their campaigns by preventing school reform or school choice.

Preventing poor minority students from getting the same quality education that wealthy white kids in the suburbs get.

And I watch the cycle of poverty continue...

It's very sad, and I have become very cynical over the years because I have witnessed it first hand.
 
naisho said:
I honestly don't know all the reasons why the ratio of men:women in jail are 14:1. There could be a lot of social, psychological factors or something going on during the court. Social-psychology would indicate reason for being involved in a crime: men may vary from women for why they commit crimes.

Like if a guy needed money, he might rob a kwik-e mart or the bank. A woman on the other hand can just become promiscuous as a service for money, slave herself. Who is more likely to be caught and jailed?

It makes me think of women who suspectedly or convictedly thought to have murdered their children: (Casey Anthony, Susan Smith, maybe even JonBenet Ramsey case) You on the other hand, as a male, might not see yourself kiling your children - domestically or corporally punishment you might be more inclined to do, but maybe a woman is more likely to kill them. I don't have numbers for these, but it is just a thought in my head for an explanation to why this 1:14 figure seems weird.
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Well, you are on the right track.
 
naisho said:
Wow, DD and other statisticians, check this one out.


If we say that crime is equal and happens to everyone equally (ie, 50% good 50% bad random figure) then it would say that the percentage of people in jail should reflect or be equal to the population, right?

Well, I combined both the census and the BoP stats and apparently it's not so. Are blacks, indians, and spanish people really more violent than white and asian folks? :hmm: If they aren't, then why are there more in jail?

Code: 
Blacks:        38,929,319 (12.6% of USA population)
...in jail:    82,595    (37.9% of jail population)
Percentage of black population in jail: 0.212%

Hispanics:    50,477,594 (16.3% of USA population)
...in jail:    43,839 (34.3% of jail population*)
Percentage of spanish popluation in jail: 0.086%*

Whites:        196,817,552 (63.7% of USA population)
...in jail:    31,058 (24.3% of jail population)
Percentage of white population in jail: 0.015%

Native Indians:    2,932,248 (0.9% of USA population)
...in jail:    4,035    (1.9% of jail population)
Percentage of indian population in jail: 0.137%

Asians:        14,674,252 (4.8% of USA population)
...in jail:    3,641    (1.7% of jail population)
Percentage of asian population in jail: 0.024%
* likely includes hispanics that are detained whose native citizenships are from mexico or south america, etc, so have to be careful of what to assume from that data.
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Thank you so very much for this post. I can read and understand it completely.
What the data does NOT show is the reason women are in jail.
So see if you can get jillio to take a good look at your data because her post #631 is a royal screw-up.
 
DaveM said:
I've spent a large part of my life working in a North Philadelphia black community trying to help dually diagnosed drug addicts.

I've watched year after year go by and the conditions continue to get worse.

I've watched politicians in bed with the teachers union continue to produce schools that dropout rates get higher and higher every year.

I've watched politicians protect teachers unions who donate to their campaigns by preventing school reform or school choice.

Preventing poor minority students from getting the same quality education that wealthy white kids in the suburbs get.

And I watch the cycle of poverty continue...

It's very sad, and I have become very cynical over the years because I have witnessed it first hand.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is because you are attempting to help them from your own ethnocentric perspective. That is rarely effective.

I would have to know more about your program, and more about the theorerical perspective you use, as well as your credentials and your particular thereotical perspective and how you apply it to your treatment modalities, but if you are willing to provide that, we can engage in an indepth discussion of perhaps why the program isn't working.
 
rolling7 said:
Thank you so very much for this post. I can read and understand it completely.
What the data does NOT show is the reason women are in jail.
So see if you can get jillio to take a good look at your data because her post #631 is a royal screw-up.
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Someone get the orderlies.
 
saywhatkid said:
I think it is if race is the reason for the attack.
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Oh so

Dear Victim,

While we realize you sustained severe injuries when your neighbor, who hated the color you painted your house, lost his temper and attacked you with a bat. It is our opinion we can not charge your attacker with the same crime as Jim Bob Bubba because Jim Bob Bubba's crime resulted from his dislike for skin color rather than paint color.

Best Wishes
Social Justice
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Got it
 
jillio said:
Perhaps it is because you are attempting to help them from your own ethnocentric perspective. That is rarely effective.

I would have to know more about your program, and more about the theorerical perspective you use, as well as your credentials and your particular thereotical perspective and how you apply it to your treatment modalities, but if you are willing to provide that, we can engage in an indepth discussion of perhaps why the program isn't working.
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Lol! I wasn't trying to help them from a "ethnocentric" point of view. I worked in an African American owned, African American staffed drug rehabilitation out patient facility. In the poorest area of North Philadelphia.
 
DaveM said:
Just for you, Jillio:

Had Philly, Detroit, Camden, been run by Republicans, the outcomes would be the same!

There is no incentive to change anything when there is no threat of being thrown of of office.
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so what would a libertarian party do in this case?
 
jillio said:
And that is why we have difference in sentencing based on hate crimes.:cool2:

Check and check mate.
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No that is the fallacy of "hate crime laws" :) Equal damage, unequal punishment is not equal justice. :cool2:
 
DaveM said:
Mayors sign bills passed through the city legislators. Mayors also help influence Governors in what laws get passed at a State level.
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it's other way around.
 
DaveM said:
Lol! I wasn't trying to help them from a "ethnocentric" point of view. I worked in an African American owned, African American staffed drug rehabilitation out patient facility. In the poorest area of North Philadelphia.
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Gonna need more details than that. I think I addressed them earlier.

Let me tell you something I was discussing with a friend earlier. She is a doctor of clinical psychology. She has a private practice, teaches at 2 different universities, and does much pro bono work for the indigent. She lives in an upscale neighborhood. Her son came home in tears the other day. Why? A child he had been playing with, and whom he had played with for the better part of 3 years, had called him a "******". She said, "You know, somehow I believed that if I worked hard and achieved, removed myself from what people consider to be the stereotype, that I could get away from this kind of racism and it would not affect my children. I was wrong."

You live those experiences, and then you will be able to address the experience of the African Americans in this nation.
 
TXgolfer said:
Then what about the women? There is also a larger differential in the Asian population yet Asians are a protected minority by "Hate crime laws"

It's funny because people are arguing Crack vs Coke saying they have different sentences based on race, yet they WANT different sentences for the same assault if race was involved. Strange logic
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I know you can't see it that way and that's ok. I'm not too concerned whether or not if you disagree because the legislators and Congress have understood and passed the laws.

I'm fairly certain that your daughter sees it differently from yours so perhaps you might want to have a discussion about this with her on Thanksgiving Day.
 
Jiro said:
so what would a libertarian party do in this case?
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I'm a practical libertarian. I believe in free markets. I believe that the more the government tinkers with the marketplace, the less fair it becomes.

I feel that there should be social safety nets. And laws protecting us.

If you want more revenue to come into the government, you need more prosperity.

If you want government jobs that are paid by tax dollars, there needs to be private market growth or you become like Greece.

I also believe in competition in the marketplace. We all benefit.
 
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