A hate crime....

[DaveM]

You are avoiding the question. Jiro mentioned that the state of NJ has had several Republican governors during the 1980's through today. You are beating the drums loudly that the Democratic mayors passed unequal drug laws from their city desk, and have absolute powers that have corrupted them. If you leave out the party, it might make your argument a bit more believeable.

There are many members here that you can join with to bash Liberals. Feel free to do so.

I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding the question, I'm trying to keep up with you all!

I'm also not bashing liberals. But the fact remains that the poorest cities in America today have been run by Democrats for decades.

Now If I were bashing libs, I would suggest that they are responsible for the decline in American cities. But I'm not!

I'm suggesting that a non accountable monolithic political machine that will always win an election, unchallenged, breeds corruption!

 

[jillio]

So you are telling me that Democratic mayors, working with Republican governors, passed laws together? They cooperated?

Yet the blame falls on the Democrats because they had power that corrupted them?

See where I'm coming from on the contradictions?

 

[DaveM]

Democrats have not held power consistently through history. So, using your politicized viewpoint, explain please, the long history of inequitable application of laws in this country, and the creation of laws with disproportionate negative effect on minorities.

It's not just the mayors, or local city government, or governors.

I'm saying that the call for harsher sentences also came at the wishes from the community! People themselves were naturally afraid of the epidemic.

But what happened in the crack case is what happens every time there's a prohibition type law.

When I speak of unintended consequences of well meaning laws, this is my exact point.

The consequence of trying to protect the African American community from crime led to disproportionate jail time!

 

[jillio]

I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding the question, I'm trying to keep up with you all!

I'm also not bashing liberals. But the fact remains that the poorest cities in America today have been run by Democrats for decades.

Now If I were bashing libs, I would suggest that they are responsible for the decline in American cities. But I'm not!

I'm suggesting that a non accountable monolithic political machine that will always win an election, unchallenged, breeds corruption!

Ever wonder why those poor cities keep electing Dem mayors? So they can have a modicum of control over their existence on the local level because the Repubs in the State positions are killing them.

 

[Dixie]

Bilateral cooperation between Democrats and Republicans hasnt been exactly successful if you want to call it that. It's been recorded in history.

It's difficult to get any laws passed with 'unified' Democrats and Republicans. They disagree on just about everything. In my rural area mayors usually don't say they are either Democrat or Republican, they just run for office and it's decided by a simple majority vote. The bigger races such as for sheriff, or for state representative will have people deciding which party they are.

 

[DaveM]

See where I'm coming from on the contradictions?

Just for you, Jillio:

Had Philly, Detroit, Camden, been run by Republicans, the outcomes would be the same!

There is no incentive to change anything when there is no threat of being thrown of of office.

 

[jillio]

It's not just the mayors, or local city government, or governors.

I'm saying that the call for harsher sentences also came at the wishes from the community! People themselves were naturally afraid of the epidemic.

But what happened in the crack case is what happens every time there's a prohibition type law.

When I speak of unintended consequences of well meaning laws, this is my exact point.

The consequence of trying to protect the African American community from crime led to disproportionate jail time!

You said the key word. Fear. I will add Unreasonable to Fear. Based not on fact but emotional manipulation.

No, the inequitable application of laws in an attempt to protect the white community from the big, bad African Americans is what led to disproportionate jail time.

I'm going to refer you back to post #416. I'd like you to address it, please.

 

[saywhatkid]

It's not just the mayors, or local city government, or governors.

I'm saying that the call for harsher sentences also came at the wishes from the community! People themselves were naturally afraid of the epidemic.

But what happened in the crack case is what happens every time there's a prohibition type law.

When I speak of unintended consequences of well meaning laws, this is my exact point.

The consequence of trying to protect the African American community from crime led to disproportionate jail time!

Right. It goes all the way to the top. I recall that this was the Reagan "Trickled On economics" timeframe, followed by the GHW Bush years. I can still see Nancy Reagan with her "Just say no!" advertisements.

 

[jillio]

Just for you, Jillio:

Had Philly, Detroit, Camden, been run by Republicans, the outcomes would be the same!

There is no incentive to change anything when there is no threat of being thrown of of office.

That doesn't change the fact that you are contradicting yourself. I think SWK pointed it out rather nicely.

 

[jillio]

Right. It goes all the way to the top. I recall that this was the Reagan "Trickled On economics" timeframe, followed by the GHW Bush years. I can still see Nancy Reagan with her "Just say no!" advertisements.

Yeah, that one was a big success!

 

[TXgolfer]

Did you notice one major point from the data?
There are more white people than anyone else in the USA, by far, and they're the least of all categories to be in jail. That is really, really weird to see this -- (well, not really) but it does prove a point: whites are the most least likely to be in jail despite the largest amount of people.

Then what about the women? There is also a larger differential in the Asian population yet Asians are a protected minority by "Hate crime laws"

It's funny because people are arguing Crack vs Coke saying they have different sentences based on race, yet they WANT different sentences for the same assault if race was involved. Strange logic

 

[DaveM]

Ever wonder why those poor cities keep electing Dem mayors? So they can have a modicum of control over their existence on the local level because the Repubs in the State positions are killing them.

#1 Yes I do wonder why poor communities continue to vote for politicians who have made things worse for them year after year.

#2 C'mon, Repubs in State positions aren't killing them. Now you sound very biased.

 

[jillio]

Then what about the women? There is also a larger differential in the Asian population yet Asians are a protected minority by "Hate crime laws"

It's funny because people are arguing Crack vs Coke saying they have different sentences based on race, yet they WANT different sentences for the same assault if race was involved. Strange logic

Because one is based on inequitable sentencing as a result of race, and the other is based on equalizing justice that has been disproportionately available based on institutional racism.

 

[jillio]

#1 Yes I do wonder why poor communities continue to vote for politicians who have made things worse for them year after year.

#2 C'mon, Repubs in State positions aren't killing them. Now you sound very biased.

It is not the mayors that are making things worse.

Yes, they are.

 

[DaveM]

Right. It goes all the way to the top. I recall that this was the Reagan "Trickled On economics" timeframe, followed by the GHW Bush years. I can still see Nancy Reagan with her "Just say no!" advertisements.

Hmm, I do remember the Reagan and Bush I years. And I long for them again.

Right now there are more people on food stamps then ever before, record high unemployment in the African American community, A national debt approaching 15 trillion dollars, etc....

BTW, I also long for the Clinton days when he left us with a surplus. Welfare reform, tax cuts, deregulation, and free trade.

"The era of Big Government is over" - Bill Clinton 1996

 

[saywhatkid]

Then what about the women? There is also a larger differential in the Asian population yet Asians are a protected minority by "Hate crime laws"

It's funny because people are arguing Crack vs Coke saying they have different sentences based on race, yet they WANT different sentences for the same assault if race was involved. Strange logic

I think it is if race is the reason for the attack.

 

[TXgolfer]

There is still a dead body. You seem to think that the results of the crime are all that matters. Dead body is a dead body. Murder, pure and simple..

Nah that is why we have different laws such as manslaughter. You are just not thinking it through.

a person beaten is a person beaten

Yep, but there are different degrees of beating of course and the punishment varies. But as I said "assuming all other factors are the same"

 

[Dixie]

We can have a return for the Clinton days if Hillary runs for office and wins.

 

[TXgolfer]

You didn't REALLY say this, did you?
.

I certainly did, Charging a person with an additional "hate charge" in a violent crime in no way affects the sentencing in Crack vs Coke.

 

[jillio]

Hmm, I do remember the Reagan and Bush I years. And I long for them again.

Right now there are more people on food stamps then ever before, record high unemployment in the African American community, A national debt approaching 15 trillion dollars, etc....

BTW, I also long for the Clinton days when he left us with a surplus. Welfare reform, tax cuts, deregulation, and free trade.

"The era of Big Government is over" - Bill Clinton 1996

To say 'I long for the Bush and Reagan years again" and show concern for the African American community is diametrically opposed.