Is sign language Universal?

[TheOracle]

Not at all, really.

For example: sordo, sordi, sordu, sourdo......

Sourdough bread? What?

If I listen to a German, I have a better chance at understanding than if I speak with someone from Japan. That's because English is a Germanic language.

So all sign languages are derived from the same idea? And if so, what? Does it make it universal? Does it make it 'gestures' and not 'language'? Can you talk in Nicaraguan sign?

I don't doubt that ASL is a full blown language, but I can see how people would think it is not. One problem ASL does have is a lack of a dictionary and written way to communicate new words - eg, you have to fingerspell things like 'neuropathy'.

 

[posts from hell]

Sourdough bread? What?

If I listen to a German, I have a better chance at understanding than if I speak with someone from Japan. That's because English is a Germanic language.

So all sign languages are derived from the same idea? And if so, what? Does it make it universal? Does it make it 'gestures' and not 'language'? Can you talk in Nicaraguan sign?

I don't doubt that ASL is a full blown language, but I can see how people would think it is not. One problem ASL does have is a lack of a dictionary and written way to communicate new words - eg, you have to fingerspell things like 'neuropathy'.

sordo = spanish, sordi = italian, sordu = french, sourdo = latin -- all meaning "deaf" which was my point. "Up to a point."

With your last paragraph, have you seen the Chinese American Post lately? I read it today, and they use English words and symbols here and there in the article. same thing for spelling some words out. Big deal.

 

[TheOracle]

sordo = spanish, sordi = italian, sordu = french, sourdo = latin -- all meaning "deaf" which was my point. "Up to a point."

With your last paragraph, have you seen the Chinese American Post lately? I read it today, and they use English words and symbols here and there in the article. same thing for spelling some words out. Big deal.

Yes, but Spanish, Italian, and French are Latin languages.

My point is that language isn't as fluid amongst speaking populations. So if it is easier with sign, does that make sign an easier language? A lesser one? A less intelligent one? Does less convoluted = less smart?

I'm throwing qs out there as things to chew on because I was surprised at your assertion you can talk with Japanese Deaf. I would have never thought so.

edit: I don't read the Chinese American Post , no, but China and America have a relationship that's pretty strong, and English is a man lingua franca in the speaking world, so of course we borrow words from each other. But deaf don't sign to other deaf all around the world like oral speakers talk.

 

[posts from hell]

Yes, but Spanish, Italian, and French are Latin languages.

My point is that language isn't as fluid amongst speaking populations. So if it is easier with sign, does that make sign an easier language? A lesser one? A less intelligent one? Does less convoluted = less smart?

I'm throwing qs out there as things to chew on because I was surprised at your assertion you can talk with Japanese Deaf. I would have never thought so.

edit: I don't read the Chinese American Post , no, but China and America have a relationship that's pretty strong, and English is a man lingua franca in the speaking world, so of course we borrow words from each other. But deaf don't sign to other deaf all around the world like oral speakers talk.

Regarding your 2nd paragraph - I'd strongly recommend you to talk to a CODA regarding that. Oftentimes you will see them talking in voice then pause to sign something because sign language delivers so much more depth in a compact form than an page of essay.

And for your last paragraph - please don't make assumptions. I talk with international deaf people all the times. It is wayyy easier than the hearies have for sure.

 

[TheOracle]

Regarding your 2nd paragraph - I'd strongly recommend you to talk to a CODA regarding that. Oftentimes you will see them talking in voice then pause to sign something because sign language delivers so much more depth in a compact form than an page of essay.

That is called code switching. I do the same thing with Spanish and Hebrew (and Yiddishe slang, to a lesser extent). But I think that English is better for me than ASL, no matter how poetic and beautiful ASL is. There are some things I can say aloud (or type) that no deaf person will ever 'get' without access to sound.

And for your last paragraph - please don't make assumptions. I talk with international deaf people all the times. It is wayyy easier than the hearies have for sure.

People have been arguing that sign is not a universal language for decades to help prove that ASL is a language on its own. Full blown. Capable. Meets every need.

You have less 'words' in ASL than we do in English because you combine many roots when signing. So...I was rather surprised that you said you can talk freely with Japanese signers.

In regards to my comment about deaf v. hearing and communications, the deaf do not communicate with people around the world like hearing people do b/c

Sign isn't an ethnic component, nor does it belong to a government or have its own economy or whatever.

Hearing people communicate freely all over the world because it's a global world. That's what I meant. That's why "Google" is a word in China and dim sum is a word here...as is brassiere and verboten.

 

[posts from hell]

okay, i refer you to my first post, then.

 

[TheOracle]

Well, I guess sign isn't as complicated as I thought.

 

[jillio]

It's Auslan here not Australian Sign Language. We hate using two words if one will do!

Beg pardon! ASL at one time was called Ameslan, too, but it has fallen out of use.

 

[jillio]

Well, I guess sign isn't as complicated as I thought.

Just keep thinking that. It is as complicated as any other language. Most English users find ASL to be extremely difficult because of the contextual nature and the visual syntax.

 

[jillio]

That is called code switching. I do the same thing with Spanish and Hebrew (and Yiddishe slang, to a lesser extent). But I think that English is better for me than ASL, no matter how poetic and beautiful ASL is. There are some things I can say aloud (or type) that no deaf person will ever 'get' without access to sound.
People have been arguing that sign is not a universal language for decades to help prove that ASL is a language on its own. Full blown. Capable. Meets every need.

You have less 'words' in ASL than we do in English because you combine many roots when signing. So...I was rather surprised that you said you can talk freely with Japanese signers.

In regards to my comment about deaf v. hearing and communications, the deaf do not communicate with people around the world like hearing people do b/c

Sign isn't an ethnic component, nor does it belong to a government or have its own economy or whatever.

Hearing people communicate freely all over the world because it's a global world. That's what I meant. That's why "Google" is a word in China and dim sum is a word here...as is brassiere and verboten.

ASL doesn't have words.

What makes you think that the deaf don't communicate with people around the world like the hearing do? That is a very audist comment.

ASL most definately is an ethnic component, just as language is an ethnic tie to any culture, and shared language is a feature of the culture.

Hearing people don't communicate freely all over the world, and Americans especially would have greater difficulty than they already do were not so many other nations fluent in English. Americans are by and large monolingual. They can't communicate with anyone that doesn't know their language.

 

[deafskeptic]

ASL doesn't have words.

What makes you think that the deaf don't communicate with people around the world like the hearing do? That is a very audist comment.

ASL most definately is an ethnic component, just as language is an ethnic tie to any culture, and shared language is a feature of the culture.

Hearing people don't communicate freely all over the world, and Americans especially would have greater difficulty than they already do were not so many other nations fluent in English. Americans are by and large monolingual. They can't communicate with anyone that doesn't know their language.

Speaking of talking to others who don't know English, I remember going to Charlotte club for the Deaf several years ago in NC. I met a Mexican mother of a Deaf Mexican. I did not know enough Spanish nor did she know much English but we were able to communicate just fine in ASL. She also knew Mexican Sign language.

 

[jillio]

Speaking of talking to others who don't know English, I remember going to Charlotte club for the Deaf several years ago in NC. I met a Mexican mother of a Deaf Mexican. I did not know enough Spanish nor did she know much English but we were able to communicate just fine in ASL. She also knew Mexican Sign language.

I don't doubt that at all. Signed languages are more easily translated in those situations into another signed language, than are spoken languages.