Businessman Cain enters 2012 GOP presidential race

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Foxrac said:
I know a lot about him in 2005-2006 when he was considered/rumored to be Hillary Clinton's vice president but he decided to run on his own. He was mostly recognized by residents in IL and WI.
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That's what I'm saying. Prior to the Presidential primary race, he wasn't known nationally.
 
Reba said:
That's what I'm saying. Prior to the Presidential primary race, he wasn't known nationally.
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He did because he was senator and plenty of Americans know him so more than Cain does.
 
Foxrac said:
He did because he was senator and plenty of Americans know him so more than Cain does.
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His first year as a senator was 2005. There was no national level experience or history to know about him then. He hadn't yet done anything.
 
Steinhauer said:
The point was that Obama made a promise to close Guatanamo ... but didn't do it.

Guatanamo was established under Bush's watch. Water boarding detainees to extract information was condoned by the Bush administration and condemned by Obama. Obama was elected primarily for his promise to close Guatanamo (which he didn't do) as well as the reason he won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Osama Bin Laden was captured as a result of information extracted by the use of water boarding (which Obama condemned as well as made the promise to close Guatanamo which he didn't do).

So, in effect, Osama Bin Laden was captured as a result of policies put into motion by Bush. You even have Democrat leaders stating this openly (because they can't hide this fact). However, Obama supporters will not give Bush due credit and are claiming that Osama was found on Obama's watch .. therefore, Obama gets full credit.

Since the recession also happened on Obama's watch, he should get full credit for the limitless borrowing and spending his administration has done. Obama supporters still want to blame Bush for the recession... even though the recession happened on Obama's watch.

Now, you have Herman Cain stating that playing the blame game will not fix the economy. Blaming Bush hasn't picked up our economy, unlimited borrowing and spending hasn't picked up the economy, the Obama stimilus plan hasn't picked up the economy.

Its time to change the course and solve for x. Cain is getting me and my family's full support.
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The recession started in DECEMBER 2007, it was on Bush's watch, not Obama.

Without stimulus package, it will be much worse, no matters about how our president did promise because I know that economy will be much worse before getting better, that did happened.
 
Reba said:
His first year as a senator was 2005. There was no national level experience or history to know about him then. He hadn't yet done anything.
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I'm not talking about prior to senate but he was more recognized by most Americans during senate year until primary election. I'm was from CA and I know about him.

Maybe, that's only for you and some people who didn't know about him in past.
 
StSapphire said:
Won't happen if the Republicans can't get a real (ie electable) candidate in the field. Extreme-right tea party candidates won't ever win, and everyone knows it. They have just as much chance as Howard Dean did for the liberals.

Yeah, lots of us are less than thrilled about Obama. But while he's crappy at keeping his promises to the people who put him in office, he's still more likely to pursue legislative and political goals that I'm in favor of than any Republican (especially a Tea Partier) I've seen.

I'm actually partially with you. I'm not a huge fan of "blaming Bush". It's been long enough, shit that's happening now is happening on Obama's watch.

However, a few things.

1) How do you (personally) measure "the economy"? There's a myriad of indicators, which everyone on both sides can point to to claim that the economy is either coming along swimmingly, or sinking faster than a rock. That's not to say that I disagree that it's still in bad shape, but I'm curious what specific measures you're looking at, since I'm not certain I'd agree that it's necessarily "worse" or even "as bad" as when he took office, so much as that it's still far less "better" than everyone wanted.

2) He's the president. Just as I don't buy that Bush had anything to do with the country going into a recession, I don't buy that Obama had all that much control over which direction the economy went, either. You can claim he chose policies that didn't help it, but I've certainly not seen any numbers indicating that anything he's done has either helped or hurt the economy. The biggest thing I could see would be health care, and I don't believe at all that that was bad for business. At the least, it was a huge boon for the insurance industry... :roll:

This, and what I said above - presidents don't have much of any control over the economy either way.

I doubt it. He's got much lower name recognition than some of the other Tea Party candidates (who may or may not run). If either Palin or Bachmann runs, I'd be shocked if Cain gets even a fraction of the Tea Party vote. And ultimately, when it comes down to it, the primaries are for party members to vote to decide which candidate they think can win. Many Tea Party members will vote for a "safer" candidate who they think can actually beat Obama, since they know someone like Cain hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of beating him.

Uh... Definitely not "primarily". It was one of many things that liberals liked about him (and one of many that we were later disappointed by him on - the invasions of privacy that his administration have advocated for are far more damaging, though), but far from the only thing. And while I'm sure his promise to close it also definitely helped him win the Nobel, the overall sentiment appeared to more be because of his (also now missing, though I blame this equally on both parties) "post-partisan" rhetoric and espoused openness to international diplomacy.

Unsubstantiated facts, which have been in dispute. And the whole "who gets credit" thing is just childish. Who cares?

See above re:economy.

I don't think anyone is saying that "if we just say that it's all Bush's fault, then the economy will get better". And by certain measures, the economy has picked up, some. Just not as much as expected/hoped for.
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Yup, I'm predicting that Bachmann will win the primary GOP election in next year and she looks too sweet but she's too conservative to my taste.
 
Foxrac said:
I'm not talking about prior to senate but he was more recognized by most Americans during senate year until primary election. I'm was from CA and I know about him.

Maybe, that's only for you and some people who didn't know about him in past.
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What did he do in 2005 that made him newsworthy to you?
 
Reba said:
What did he do in 2005 that made him newsworthy to you?
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I know about him when he was in senator and I'm usually pay attention to democrats, especially on news and more people that I met know about him too. There was rumor about Obama to be Hillary Clinton's vice president if she is running for president but turned that was not true so he went run on his own in early 2007 so I switched my support from Hillary to Obama.

Obviously, you aren't interested in democrats so that why you don't know about him, especially for some people who don't recognize him, however he is far more recognized than Cain does, that what I and StSapphire made point. You cannot compare with between Obama and Cain because they are in different situation and Cain faces hot battle in primary in next year.

Obama was state senator then became IL senator then finally became president since Cain has no experience when running for government or any position in political system.

Most recognition isn't necessary to win in primary and final election, it is depends on campaign.
 
Steinhauer said:
The point was that Obama made a promise to close Guatanamo ... but didn't do it.

Guatanamo was established under Bush's watch. Water boarding detainees to extract information was condoned by the Bush administration and condemned by Obama. Obama was elected primarily for his promise to close Guatanamo (which he didn't do) as well as the reason he won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Osama Bin Laden was captured as a result of information extracted by the use of water boarding (which Obama condemned as well as made the promise to close Guatanamo which he didn't do).

So, in effect, Osama Bin Laden was captured as a result of policies put into motion by Bush. You even have Democrat leaders stating this openly (because they can't hide this fact). However, Obama supporters will not give Bush due credit and are claiming that Osama was found on Obama's watch .. therefore, Obama gets full credit.

Since the recession also happened on Obama's watch, he should get full credit for the limitless borrowing and spending his administration has done. Obama supporters still want to blame Bush for the recession... even though the recession happened on Obama's watch.

Now, you have Herman Cain stating that playing the blame game will not fix the economy. Blaming Bush hasn't picked up our economy, unlimited borrowing and spending hasn't picked up the economy, the Obama stimilus plan hasn't picked up the economy.

Its time to change the course and solve for x. Cain is getting me and my family's full support.
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If you believe that, I have a certain bridge to sell you. :P
 
Lets look at these three.
A military man, a peanut farmer and a cowboy ......namely Ike, Carter and Reagan.

Lets look at these six.
A career politician, same, same, same, same old and same old........namely Jack, Dick, George Sr., Bill, George Jr. and Obama.

Of the first group, two out of there did good.
Of the second group, ZERO out of six did good.


What should we take from this?
Don't vote for a career politician!

They only think of what is best for their party not you and me.
Their party will make sure they are taking care of to get re-elected or after office.
 
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Tim Pawlenty - "I can win the election"
 
Reba said:
Really? I had never before heard of him. Even during the campaign, many of his supporters kept getting his name wrong, and didn't know anything about his life or political background.
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I was more talking about liberals, who were going to be voting for him in the primaries (insert disclaimer re:primaries that you already mentioned). He gained a bit of notoriety in 2004 at the Democratic National Convention, so he was more than just some nobody. That's certainly not to say he had anything close to universal name recognition (like Clinton), which actually helped him because before running, he had the chance to shape peoples' opinions of him. Generally, it's a benefit as long as you're also able to gain attention and shape positive opinions of yourself.

Reba said:
I'm glad that our primaries are open (not for the reasons you stated) but to allow independents and people from minor parties an opportunity to participate in the selection of candidates.
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I agree, I wasn't disparaging open primaries at all, just observing a possible unintended side effect of them.

Reba said:
I've always heard the theory (mostly joking) that people would vote in the opposing party's primary but I don't know anyone who was serious about it. Most people are more concerned with getting their candidate into the race.

That doesn't mean it never happens. I'm just not aware of it happening.
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Right, I don't think there's anything even close to a majority of people who do this, so it's likely not a problem. It's more that the fact that people even consider it is evidence of a growing sentiment that politics is a zero-sum game, which I find unfortunate.

Reba said:
That's what I'm saying. Prior to the Presidential primary race, he wasn't known nationally.
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That could be, and certainly is the case for moderates and conservatives. I know he was well known in IL, but I'm unsure how much he was remembered by other liberals across the country prior to the primaries.

Foxrac said:
Yup, I'm predicting that Bachmann will win the primary GOP election in next year and she looks too sweet but she's too conservative to my taste.
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Not a chance. I wouldn't be surprised if she got a lot of support from Tea Party supporters, but there's not a chance in hell that she'll win the primaries.

Reba said:
What did he do in 2005 that made him newsworthy to you?
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(See above re: Convention Speech. That's when he became nationally noticed by anyone.)

rolling7 said:
Lets look at these three.
A military man, a peanut farmer and a cowboy ......namely Ike, Carter and Reagan.

Lets look at these six.
A career politician, same, same, same, same old and same old........namely Jack, Dick, George Sr., Bill, George Jr. and Obama.

Of the first group, two out of there did good.
Of the second group, ZERO out of six did good.
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[citation needed]

rolling7 said:
What should we take from this?
Don't vote for a career politician!

They only think of what is best for their party not you and me.
Their party will make sure they are taking care of to get re-elected or after office.
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Ironically, if not for your prior statements and the comments regarding that merely describing "career politicians", I'd actually agree with you on all of your latter points.

Jiro said:
Tim Pawlenty - "I can win the election"
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Sounds like a winning primary slogan.
 
Folks on here demand example/proof, so I had to give it first.
 
StSapphire said:
Haha, just saying I don't agree with your assessments needed of the various people.



Talked! Didn't you know that's what he does best?
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Yeah...he sure could and can "talk the talk"....but people are thinking that "he can't or won't walk the walk"....Won't surprise me at all if Obama will win the election again....people "forget" so easily!...Such as "he killed Osama!"....let's vote for him again....

But feel that Cain might be "a factor"...he's an African-Black also...

Here in Jax, we got our first African-Black for our Mayor, Alvin Brown....he says "he's for all of us Downtown".....but, word was abound that the "reason" he won was because of the Northwest section of town, which is mainly predominent Black....with all the racial problems we have here...I'm "hoping" he will make a difference!....Wait and see.
 
rockin'robin said:
Yeah...he sure could and can "talk the talk"....but people are thinking that "he can't or won't walk the walk"....Won't surprise me at all if Obama will win the election again....people "forget" so easily!...Such as "he killed Osama!"....let's vote for him again....

But feel that Cain might be "a factor"...he's an African-Black also...

Here in Jax, we got our first African-Black for our Mayor, Alvin Brown....he says "he's for all of us Downtown".....but, word was abound that the "reason" he won was because of the Northwest section of town, which is mainly predominent Black....with all the racial problems we have here...I'm "hoping" he will make a difference!....Wait and see.
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To me, it is always that way. Special interest group electing their candidate, not the people
 
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