Getting my head in a mess with fitting ranges

RoseRodent

RoseRodent

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I am all fixed to start a trial with some Solana SPs but still have some reservations about the small size (I have trouble handling small objects due to hand problems) and I like this nano-coating thing that is on the Naidas which is not advertised as part of the Solanas.

Now, the fitting range table for the Solana SP shows it as covering from 40dB downwards (to a certain extent we get to ignore fitting range information because of the shape of my loss and the mixed nature) but the suitability table shows them suitable for "severe and profound". Looking at the Naida, the table shows fitting from 50dB and downwards (for S SP) and the fitting for the SP suitable for "Moderate and severe" with the UP for profound!

EDIT Managed to figure how to post the pictures but they are massive - sorry I can't change the sizes.





Based on gain and MPO stats the Naida SP is clearly a more powerful instrument than the Solana SP, so why are they saying Solana SP for severe and profound and Naida SP for moderate and severe?? :confused: Is it just because there is no smaller Naida and there is a bigger one so they think best to make it look like the UP does something the SP doesn't? They want to show that the Solana has a more suitable match for moderate losses (the MicroP or M) but since the Naida doesn't have this they stuck it in as suitable for moderate? It's very confusing! There is only this 10dB difference and really I'd never have thought the Solana SP would cut it for profound so not sure why they say it's suitable if the NaidaSP is not... it seems like a sales game at play. I'd rather have the Naida if the fitting ranges are only that little bit different, though not sure what it would make of my better frequencies. We intend to use soundrecover to eliminate the HF distortion issues. It's better I hear what is being said in a frequency with more loss than hear gibberish in a frequency with less hearing loss on paper.

Wishing it was possible to buy a "P" hearing aid in a massive case these days, but it's all about small, small, small. Ironically there is one available to the UK health service, which I am on the waiting list to be tried with it but I'm not holding my breath with all that's gone on. If I could buy it myself on the open market I'd snatch it straight up and be done with it, but it's not for sale. :mad:

Obviously it's well known that the Naida is the grandaddy of power, why are they saying you can use it for a moderate loss? Anyone understand or is it just marketing?
 
Have you decided to try going private, having had no success with the NHS?

I've no experience of Phonak so can't help answer your questions, but good luck with the trial, hope it goes well for you.
 
djchur said:
Have you decided to try going private, having had no success with the NHS?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm going private at the moment that's what I'm doing with the Solana, but now not sure if I should ask to try the Naida instead. Just a shame I cannot buy the Nathos range in the shops as only the NHS have these and they have an M and a P in the Naida casing.
 
RoseRodent said:
I am all fixed to start a trial with some Solana SPs but still have some reservations about the small size (I have trouble handling small objects due to hand problems) and I like this nano-coating thing that is on the Naidas which is not advertised as part of the Solanas.

Now, the fitting range table for the Solana SP shows it as covering from 40dB downwards (to a certain extent we get to ignore fitting range information because of the shape of my loss and the mixed nature) but the suitability table shows them suitable for "severe and profound". Looking at the Naida, the table shows fitting from 50dB and downwards (for S SP) and the fitting for the SP suitable for "Moderate and severe" with the UP for profound!

EDIT Managed to figure how to post the pictures but they are massive - sorry I can't change the sizes.




Based on gain and MPO stats the Naida SP is clearly a more powerful instrument than the Solana SP, so why are they saying Solana SP for severe and profound and Naida SP for moderate and severe?? :confused: Is it just because there is no smaller Naida and there is a bigger one so they think best to make it look like the UP does something the SP doesn't? They want to show that the Solana has a more suitable match for moderate losses (the MicroP or M) but since the Naida doesn't have this they stuck it in as suitable for moderate? It's very confusing! There is only this 10dB difference and really I'd never have thought the Solana SP would cut it for profound so not sure why they say it's suitable if the NaidaSP is not... it seems like a sales game at play. I'd rather have the Naida if the fitting ranges are only that little bit different, though not sure what it would make of my better frequencies. We intend to use soundrecover to eliminate the HF distortion issues. It's better I hear what is being said in a frequency with more loss than hear gibberish in a frequency with less hearing loss on paper.

Wishing it was possible to buy a "P" hearing aid in a massive case these days, but it's all about small, small, small. Ironically there is one available to the UK health service, which I am on the waiting list to be tried with it but I'm not holding my breath with all that's gone on. If I could buy it myself on the open market I'd snatch it straight up and be done with it, but it's not for sale. :mad:

Obviously it's well known that the Naida is the grandaddy of power, why are they saying you can use it for a moderate loss? Anyone understand or is it just marketing?
Click to expand...

2drckg5.jpg
Naida SP fitting range

Naida III UP fitting range

20p60ip.jpg


Solana SP fitting range

2z5olsn.jpg
 
Looks like it is because they can turn down the Solana Sp and not blow your ears out.
 
plasticdinosaur said:
Plus, the Solanas come in thin tube all the way in the SP region. I seem to remember you mentioning that the regular tubes irritated your skin.
Click to expand...

Not me. Rose Rodent maybe? Or maybe you were already talking to Rose Rodent. Sorry.
 
Bottesini said:
Looks like it is because they can turn down the Solana Sp and not blow your ears out.
Click to expand...

Which would make it the other way around, it's the Naida that has the louder fitting range in the audiogram table but has suitability shown in the "moderate" part of the other table, and the Solana SP shows NOT suitable for moderate, so that's why it's confusing, if it's cos they can turn the Solana down it would be the Solana suitable for moderate and the Naida not suitable, but it's shown the other way around.

plasticdinosaur said:
Plus, the Solanas come in thin tube all the way in the SP region. I seem to remember you mentioning that the regular tubes irritated your skin.
Click to expand...

The new Naida S comes in thin tube too.

I have the fitting range tables (they are from Solana but noticed when you copy and paste them it says Ambra on it, it's the same though) but what I am not understanding is why it says Solana SP suitable for smaller losses in the table then in the other table it says for "severe or profound" but NOT moderate, and then the Naida SP is clearly shown for a 10dB larger loss, but then in the table it says suitable for "moderate and severe" and NOT for profound. Why would that be?

PS. This is for the Naida S, the new one launched last week. They no longer show the "extended fitting range for use with bass boost" which is on the old Naida tables.
 
Last edited:
Solana can be turned down farther that either Naida. So more suitable for your loss, that you have talked about.
 
Bottesini said:
Solana can be turned down farther that either Naida. So more suitable for your loss, that you have talked about.
Click to expand...

I understand that, though the loss pattern is not that relevant with a Phonak because we are going to Soundrecover the HF off completely cos it's becoming clear with more detailed testing that my HF is not any actual use, but the question remains that if this is so, why would the Naida be the one marked suitable for moderate hearing loss and the Solana the one marked NOT suitable for the moderate hearing loss? That's the question.

I don't understand why they are marked in the brochures as if they are the other way around - is this a mistake? Marketing sleight of hand? Just because there is such a thing as a Solana P but no such thing as a Naida P so if you have your heart set on a Naida you can fit it to a moderate loss if you must but if you have your heart set on a Solana you may as well get a P? That's where the confusion lies, that the thing appears to be marked up backwards.

I don't understand how I can make the question any clearer... I'm not unaware of the fitting ranges or which is the stronger instrument, I want to understand why Phonak mark the louder hearing aid as suitable for moderate and severe losses and the quieter one as suitable for severe and profound losses - check again, it really isn't the other way around, it's not the way that your answers relate to, I get what you are saying but it does nothing but underline my point, the Solana is less powerful, why oh why is it marked for the bigger losses then? I'm querying the "why" not the "what". Could you really fit a Naida S SP to a moderate loss???? It says you can in the brochure!
 
Does it not mean "Petite?" SP means Super Power. There is no "Power" just "petite" as far as I know.
 
RoseRodent said:
Sorry you have lost me completely there! What are we talking about? Does what mean Petite? Which product?
Click to expand...

Solana P. P means petite? If I am not understanding you sorry, our psychologist thinks my reading comprehension is poor. :wave:
 
Officially it is termed MicroP I just contracted it to P cos most folks are familiar with the M, P, SP, UP designations, sorry when I said P I meant MicroP. Directly above the SP in the Solana/Ambra fitting chart.

Interestingly, Phonak did this on the previous generation Naida but only on the paediatric brochure, it said the Naida SP was suitable for "moderate to profound" for children where the adult brochure was marked for "severe to profound". With a virtually unchanged fitting range the Naida S is now marketed suitable for moderate and severe but not profound. Kids get a whole load more gain than adults do, and I am usually fit in Junior Mode, but I also wondered if it was the same thought process, they didn't have as many alternative paediatric instruments in that range so they marked it suitable - not sure.

This guy is not getting so hung up on fitting ranges anyway, which is good, but I usually find that people do, they can't get their heads out of the charts to pick something that is actually suitable. Because I have mixed loss and conductive component is aided at 100% instead of the 30-50% for SN loss the fitting tables don't really tell the story for me, then add on a fluctuating loss and you can't fit to today's audiogram, but when you see a poor audiologist sometimes you end up with a doorstop hearing aid that is fitted to the SN fitting range and with nothing built in to allow for the bad days, flying, etc. And being able to fit and remove your own hearing aid and change batteries independently is a big deal, a hearing aid that really helps my hearing but if it falls off it's gone for the day is really no use, the bigger the better! Some people don't take that into account when selecting something.
 
RoseRodent said:
Officially it is termed MicroP I just contracted it to P cos most folks are familiar with the M, P, SP, UP designations, sorry when I said P I meant MicroP. Directly above the SP in the Solana/Ambra fitting chart.

Interestingly, Phonak did this on the previous generation Naida but only on the paediatric brochure, it said the Naida SP was suitable for "moderate to profound" for children where the adult brochure was marked for "severe to profound". With a virtually unchanged fitting range the Naida S is now marketed suitable for moderate and severe but not profound. Kids get a whole load more gain than adults do, and I am usually fit in Junior Mode, but I also wondered if it was the same thought process, they didn't have as many alternative paediatric instruments in that range so they marked it suitable - not sure.

This guy is not getting so hung up on fitting ranges anyway, which is good, but I usually find that people do, they can't get their heads out of the charts to pick something that is actually suitable. Because I have mixed loss and conductive component is aided at 100% instead of the 30-50% for SN loss the fitting tables don't really tell the story for me, then add on a fluctuating loss and you can't fit to today's audiogram, but when you see a poor audiologist sometimes you end up with a doorstop hearing aid that is fitted to the SN fitting range and with nothing built in to allow for the bad days, flying, etc. And being able to fit and remove your own hearing aid and change batteries independently is a big deal, a hearing aid that really helps my hearing but if it falls off it's gone for the day is really no use, the bigger the better! Some people don't take that into account when selecting something.
Click to expand...

I do have to say that on my Solana MicroP, the battery door is rather fragile feeling. I don't know if it would be the same on the SP casing, but on mine I sometimes feel like I'm going to accidentally rip it off. So if you have impaired fine motor function or shaky hands, the Solana may leave you at risk for accidentally breaking your battery door.
 
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