A Man of Many Degrees +Plus+ Ph.D

What about oral boards?
 
Jiro said:
why blame him? blame the students.

and plus - by your logic... lawyers are same thing.
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I am not blaming him; just pointing something out.

Lawyers? Where did you draw that conclusion? There are many honest lawyers out there who don't cheat or bend the rules.
 
Glenn said:
I never did and neither did many students I know.
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But those that use this service obviously have already made the decision to cheat, or they would not be seeking out such a service. That doesn't mean all students make the same decision.
 
jillio said:
It is scary. But there is a program designed to detect the use of services like these. All the profs at the school I am associated with use it.
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If that system were able to detect this guy's work, then how does he succeed?
 
Glenn said:
If that system were able to detect this guy's work, then how does he succeed?
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Not all schools use the software. And, I daresay, most of his customers are high school students. I know of no high schools that use the software. Plus, the student would already have used his service before the software can detect it.

Think about it. Someone who gets accepted into a post graduate program doesn't need anyone to write their papers for them.
 
The software is supposed to detect phrases and so on that have already been written in other works. Even my papers have been submitted to one of the databases.

I think the software is only one tool to use against cheating. And I think it is not going to catch everything.
 
Glenn said:
The software is supposed to detect phrases and so on that have already been written in other works. Even my papers have been submitted to one of the databases.

I think the software is only one tool to use against cheating. And I think it is not going to catch everything.
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Agreed. With each new software program comes someone intent on cheating finding another way.
 
The reason for why stuff like this has come about definitely lies in the American education system. Higher education has just become a business at most universities. Students are customers purchasing a product, a degree. It doesn't matter how they get that product, just as long as they get it.

One of the biggest reasons that I see is the way many college classes are set up as auditorium lectures with hundreds upon hundreds of students. The only way to assess student learning in such situations is to give exams and assign papers to be read by a team of graduate TAs (often socially stunted and resentful of the undergrad students who are having much more fun than they ever did as undergrads). There are no close working relationships between student and instructor, and thus, no oversight. The students are not motivated to do good work and increase their knowledge and intellectual capacity, but just to pass the class with a good grade at any cost.

With my class, I only have 20 students. I know each and every one of their names by the end of the second week. I assign daily quick writing activities in order to get a feeling for their writing style and intellectual capabilities. And through mandatory 1-on-1 conferencing, I get to know them a little better than just as a statistic. What happens is that I develop a close working relationship with each of them and can give them individualized instruction. I like to think that they are more inspired to write and work hard because of this, but if anything, it also allows me to recognize when something is out of the ordinary with their writing.

American universities need to begin moving back towards smaller class size and taking only the brightest and most motivated students. College isn't for everybody.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
The reason for why stuff like this has come about definitely lies in the American education system. Higher education has just become a business at most universities. Students are customers purchasing a product, a degree. It doesn't matter how they get that product, just as long as they get it.

One of the biggest reasons that I see is the way many college classes are set up as auditorium lectures with hundreds upon hundreds of students. The only way to assess student learning in such situations is to give exams and assign papers to be read by a team of graduate TAs (often socially stunted and resentful of the undergrad students who are having much more fun than they ever did as undergrads).

With my class, I only have 20 students. I know each and every one of their names by the end of the second week. I assign daily quick writing activities in order to get a feeling for their writing style and intellectual capabilities. And through mandatory 1-on-1 conferencing, I get to know them a little better than just as a statistic. What happens is that I develop a close working relationship with each of them and can give them individualized instruction. I like to think that they are more inspired to write and work hard because of this, but if anything, it also allows me to recognize when something is out of the ordinary.

American universities need to begin moving back towards smaller class size and taking only the brightest and most motivated students. College isn't for everybody.
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:ty: Open enrollment and artificial rentention practices have caused a decline in education at many of the larger state universities; and many smaller private ones, as well.
 
jillio said:
:ty: Open enrollment and artificial rentention practices have caused a decline in education at many of the larger state universities; and many smaller private ones, as well.
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Yes, and sadly this is what happens when you make education less of a priority than building bombs and cutting taxes for the wealthiest 10% of the country.
 
Glenn said:
I am not blaming him; just pointing something out.

Lawyers? Where did you draw that conclusion? There are many honest lawyers out there who don't cheat or bend the rules.
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lawyers for criminals? OJ Simpson? wife beaters? Enron people?
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Yes, and sadly this is what happens when you make education less of a priority than building bombs and cutting taxes for the wealthiest 10% of the country.
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**sadly nodding agreement**

People have developed such a sense of entitlement when it comes to obtaining knowledge and learning. No sense of responsibility what so ever for their own education. It is a situation of "Okay, you earned yours, now give it to me free of charge and without my having to make any effort."
 
TheWriteAlex said:
The reason for why stuff like this has come about definitely lies in the American education system. Higher education has just become a business at most universities. Students are customers purchasing a product, a degree. It doesn't matter how they get that product, just as long as they get it.

One of the biggest reasons that I see is the way many college classes are set up as auditorium lectures with hundreds upon hundreds of students. The only way to assess student learning in such situations is to give exams and assign papers to be read by a team of graduate TAs (often socially stunted and resentful of the undergrad students who are having much more fun than they ever did as undergrads). There are no close working relationships between student and instructor, and thus, no oversight. The students are not motivated to do good work and increase their knowledge and intellectual capacity, but just to pass the class with a good grade at any cost.

With my class, I only have 20 students. I know each and every one of their names by the end of the second week. I assign daily quick writing activities in order to get a feeling for their writing style and intellectual capabilities. And through mandatory 1-on-1 conferencing, I get to know them a little better than just as a statistic. What happens is that I develop a close working relationship with each of them and can give them individualized instruction. I like to think that they are more inspired to write and work hard because of this, but if anything, it also allows me to recognize when something is out of the ordinary with their writing.

American universities need to begin moving back towards smaller class size and taking only the brightest and most motivated students. College isn't for everybody.
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Hey, we agree on something!!!
 
Glenn said:
If that system were able to detect this guy's work, then how does he succeed?
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not all schools utilize this service. Many colleges especially Ivy Leagues and small prestigious colleges like Haverford College do not use it either because it's based on honor system. It's a well-known fact that their exams are take-home because the professors trust you to use your good conscience not to cheat.

plus - most system that colleges use are designed to compare students' papers with known cheating database where you can just buy the papers, google, academic database, amazon, etc.

Writing analysis software is a very expensive piece.... something that FBI has.
 
Glenn said:
The software is supposed to detect phrases and so on that have already been written in other works. Even my papers have been submitted to one of the databases.

I think the software is only one tool to use against cheating. And I think it is not going to catch everything.
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Turnitin

it's relatively ineffective.
 
jillio said:
A dissertation for a doctorate requires both oral and written.
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So they should be able to see whether or not the student's oral presentation matches the written one.
 
Reba said:
So they should be able to see whether or not the student's oral presentation matches the written one.
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Yes. That is why I stated that I doubted that it was doctoral students using this service.
 
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