Psychology of Parents on CI

[faire_jour]

FJ..what is your problem? It seems like u are ok with deaf children being put at risks for language delays if both aren't give to them. Iam surprise that you would advocate for something like that. Wow

I believe that there are very responsible parents who are educated about their options and choose a path that is best for THEIR child. I don't know their child, so I can not make that choice for them. ASL and a CI (and spoken language) was best for MY child, but I can not pretend to know what would be best for every child.

And no, I do not believe that oral education leads to language delays, social and emotional issues and cognitive problems. I believe that NOT giving your child access to language does that. The point of CI's and oral education is to make spoken language accessable. I believe there is a very responsible way to raise a child using spoken language, and the vast majority of parents I have met do those things. They do the follow up, they monitor their language and academics and make sure their children have what they need to suceed.

 

[faire_jour]

Again, you are inserting meaning and misinterpreting. Please refrain from doing so. There is never only one way to address anything. The fact that you seem to believe there is is just an example of the dichotomous thinking that continually gets you into trouble with other posters. I am not responsible for your limitations.

Didn't really answer my question.....

 

[jillio]

I believe that there are very responsible parents who are educated about their options and choose a path that is best for THEIR child. I don't know their child, so I can not make that choice for them. ASL and a CI (and spoken language) was best for MY child, but I can not pretend to know what would be best for every child.
No one claims to know what is best for EVERY child. Some of us claim, and can support it ad nauseaum with case studies and research, to know what provides the maximum benefit for the majority. If you want to hedge your bets on the belief that your child is so unique that they share nothing with the majority, then that is your choice. Personally, I think it makes much more sense to go with the probabilities.
And no, I do not believe that oral education leads to language delays, social and emotional issues and cognitive problems. I believe that NOT giving your child access to language does that. The point of CI's and oral education is to make spoken language accessable. I believe there is a very responsible way to raise a child using spoken language, and the vast majority of parents I have met do those things. They do the follow up, they monitor their language and academics and make sure their children have what they need to suceed.

Then you are sadly mistaken, and again are locked into that dichotomous thinking. The fact is that oral education and not providing a child with access to language is strongly correlated.

So what you are truly saying, if you actually do believe everything you say, is that oral education can, and does, create delays and social and emotional difficulties.

 

[jillio]

Didn't really answer my question.....

Your question has been answered ad nauseum. You refuse to see the answer when it is given. I am not responsible for your blind spots.

 

[faire_jour]

Your question has been answered ad nauseum. You refuse to see the answer when it is given. I am not responsible for your blind spots.

It is a simple yes or no. Why do you always refuse? People ask for you to provide your "sources", you say "it has been given ad naseum", now you won't even answer a simple question. Isn't being direct and honest more useful than avoiding and playing games?

 

[jillio]

It is a simple yes or no. Why do you always refuse? People ask for you to provide your "sources", you say "it has been given ad naseum", now you won't even answer a simple question. Isn't being direct and honest more useful than avoiding and playing games?

Believing that it is a simple yes or no is again your dichotomous thinking. I have not refused to answer anything. I see no sense in being redundant in providing resources and answering questions (again) that have already been answered and resources provided any number of times. If you were so concerned with directness and honesty, you would admit that you continue to ask the same questions and demand the same resources over and over and over in the futile hope that this time, the answer will be different.

 

[faire_jour]

Believing that it is a simple yes or no is again your dichotomous thinking. I have not refused to answer anything. I see no sense in being redundant in providing resources and answering questions (again) that have already been answered and resources provided any number of times. If you were so concerned with directness and honesty, you would admit that you continue to ask the same questions and demand the same resources over and over and over in the futile hope that this time, the answer will be different.

You have NEVER provided your "resources" to me, and you know it. You are being disingenious. You claim to have provided them in the past and whenever someone asks for them you say things like "It's not my job to do the work for you" or "search yourself", or "I've provided them in the past". Either you have something to back up what you say, and you are unwilling to share it with people who have a geniune desire to learn, OR you have nothing to back yourself up, and are blowing smoke.

 

[jillio]

You have NEVER provided your "resources" to me, and you know it. You are being disingenious. You claim to have provided them in the past and whenever someone asks for them you say things like "It's not my job to do the work for you" or "search yourself", or "I've provided them in the past". Either you have something to back up what you say, and you are unwilling to share it with people who have a geniune desire to learn, OR you have nothing to back yourself up, and are blowing smoke.

Sorry, FJ, not interested in this nitpicking today. Again with your redundancy.Obviously, you are incapable of realistically seeing where the problem lies. And if you are going to attempt to use ad hominem attacks, at least learn to spell them correctly.

And I share consistently with those who have demonstrated a desire to learn. Perhaps you need to consider that you have not demonstrated such.

 

[faire_jour]

Sorry, FJ, not interested in this nitpicking today. Again with your redundancy. And if you are going to attempt to use ad hominem attacks, at least learn to spell them correctly.

Attacking spelling? Really? That's the best you can do?? That's what you do when you really don't have anything worthwhile left to say.

 

[jillio]

Attacking spelling? Really? That's the best you can do??

Nope. Just trying to take it easy on you today. You seem to be in a particularly vunerable place at the moment.

It has all been said. Just because you refuse to hear it doesn't mean it isn't being said. Again, you are incapable of seeing realistically where the problem lies. But you seem to be very capable of demonstrating what your true motives are.

 

[faire_jour]

Nope. Just trying to take it easy on you today. You seem to be in a particularly vunerable place at the moment.

It has all been said. Just because you refuse to hear it doesn't mean it isn't being said. Again, you are incapable of seeing realistically where the problem lies. But you seem to be very capable of demonstrating what your true motives are.

So, what are my motives?

 

[jillio]

So, what are my motives?

That has already been stated today as well. See the pattern you are locked into?

 

[deafdyke]

Are you saying that you do not believe that if children with a hearing loss are NOT given ASL they will end up with social, emotional, cognitive and linguistic problems?

If you believe that, then there is only one way to make sure that your child doesn't have those problems...therefore, only one way to provide your child with language.

No. She believes strongly in a full toolbox, seeing whatever works approach. There ARE some children who were introduced to ASL and speech early on and they consciously CHOSE speech. But there IS a hyperfocus on speech, and an expectation that speech and listening is sufficent for every and any sitution. Having that philosophy is like assuming that b/c you're a good driver in optimal driving situtons, you're a good driver in any sitution. Yes, access to the hearing world is AWESOME. But, when you throw in stuff like talking and listening in crowds (something that even unilateral dhh kids have difficulty with), being yelled at b/c it's hard for you to modulate your voice, living life as an eternal speech therapy session, being made fun of b/c your voice doesn't sound "hearing", melting down when you're upset and you lose your speech, social delays (even MANY of the stereotypical AG Bell overacheivers have significent social issues. It is always a perennial topic at the Clarke School conference you know) You really have NO clue how many dhh young adults I know, who were mainstreamed who were labeled as doing OK, who have chronic social emotional issues. (eg poor social life, very few if any close friends, never or hardly dating) I don't deny there are kids doing well overall, but history teaches us that mainstreaming and oral only (even for hoh kids) tends to be pushed by people almost selling it. (YES! Your child won't have ANY problems and can be healthy and normal) There are probaly MANY parents of dhh mainstreamed oral kids who are having significent issues in the mainstream and orally, but they're being brushed off by the experts or the service providers in school. That happened to me, and that happened to MANY hoh kids in the mainstream you know. But their problems were swept under the rug..The same thing will happen, b/c the oral only people don't want to hear that oral only does NOT give as much access to the hearing world as pro oralists think!
I believe strongly that almost ALL dhh kids have the right to a full toolbox to chose from. That includes mildly hoh kids. If they are introduced to it, and they don't find it helps them....AWESOME...they don't have to use it! But at least they got exposed to it, and their parents didn't have to deal with Monday Morning quaterbacking.

 

[ryancher]

I can only speak from my own personal experience. Prior to Tyler, we never had any experience with deaf/hoh.

We knew that Tyler had some degree of hearing loss upon discharge from delivery. It wasn't until 12 weeks old, that we found out he had a moderate-severe bilateral sensioneural hearing loss.

From a mother's standpoint, I went through a variety of emotions - saddness, anger, denial, guilt, etc... I wanted Tyler as "normal" as possible.

It wasn't until a few years later, I realized that Tyler's hearing loss is his "normal". That's the way he was made and brought into this world. If he was any different - and had his full hearing - he wouldn't be the same Tyler.

That being said... at first we were pushed (and pushed and pushed) into the oral route. We were told AVT was the best route and that in time Tyler would learn to speak. ASL was not even mentioned to us - in fact they strongly discouraged it because they didn't want anything interferring with the oral approach.

As we had no idea what to do... we followed the professionals opinions.

Now, 3 years later, and discharged from AVT due to lack of success. We have now chosen Total Communication. We do a combination of speech with signs. Although we still very strongly want him to become oral, we also want him to learn ASL (as well as us). He is currently still non-verbal but I know in his own good time, he will choose a method that is right for him.

The only thing we as parents can do is provide him with all of his options, and allow him to grow and choose what works for him. As much as we want him to become oral maybe he will choose ASL... who knows! But regardless I have learned the best thing to do is follow your heart and provide your child with options. I have also learned to pick apart what professionals say and recommend and take only want we want. We've all been hurt way too many times by comments and suggestions. We take them for what they are for - support for our son - and then modify it to work for him and our family.

 

[deafdyke]

Now, 3 years later, and discharged from AVT due to lack of success. We have now chosen Total Communication. We do a combination of speech with signs. Although we still very strongly want him to become oral, we also want him to learn ASL (as well as us). He is currently still non-verbal but I know in his own good time, he will choose a method that is right for him.

The only thing we as parents can do is provide him with all of his options, and allow him to grow and choose what works for him. As much as we want him to become oral maybe he will choose ASL... who knows! But regardless I have learned the best thing to do is follow your heart and provide your child with options. I have also learned to pick apart what professionals say and recommend and take only want we want. We've all been hurt way too many times by comments and suggestions. We take them for what they are for - support for our son - and then modify it to work for him and our family

. Exactly!!!! Even many if not most Deaf people would love for him to gain oral skills. Voice off, pure ASLers are pretty rare. Even most DODAs have a lot of speech and language training.
Have you looked into seeing a speech therapist who is experianced with working with dhh kids? Or how about being evaluated for apraxia? There are kids with normal IQs who can't develop speech abilty b/c of apraxia. I do know most hoh kids can develop speech....I thought most Sign onliers were severe or profounders. There are hoh kids who don't have oral abilty out there ( I have a syndrome where kids are hoh but don't generally develop good oral abilty or who speak very very late)

 

[jillio]

I can only speak from my own personal experience. Prior to Tyler, we never had any experience with deaf/hoh.

We knew that Tyler had some degree of hearing loss upon discharge from delivery. It wasn't until 12 weeks old, that we found out he had a moderate-severe bilateral sensioneural hearing loss.

From a mother's standpoint, I went through a variety of emotions - saddness, anger, denial, guilt, etc... I wanted Tyler as "normal" as possible.

It wasn't until a few years later, I realized that Tyler's hearing loss is his "normal". That's the way he was made and brought into this world. If he was any different - and had his full hearing - he wouldn't be the same Tyler.

That being said... at first we were pushed (and pushed and pushed) into the oral route. We were told AVT was the best route and that in time Tyler would learn to speak. ASL was not even mentioned to us - in fact they strongly discouraged it because they didn't want anything interferring with the oral approach.

As we had no idea what to do... we followed the professionals opinions.

Now, 3 years later, and discharged from AVT due to lack of success. We have now chosen Total Communication. We do a combination of speech with signs. Although we still very strongly want him to become oral, we also want him to learn ASL (as well as us). He is currently still non-verbal but I know in his own good time, he will choose a method that is right for him.

The only thing we as parents can do is provide him with all of his options, and allow him to grow and choose what works for him. As much as we want him to become oral maybe he will choose ASL... who knows! But regardless I have learned the best thing to do is follow your heart and provide your child with options. I have also learned to pick apart what professionals say and recommend and take only want we want. We've all been hurt way too many times by comments and suggestions. We take them for what they are for - support for our son - and then modify it to work for him and our family.

I, for one, want to thank you for your honest and enlightening post. Based on what you have stated, Tyler, and you as a family, will be fine.

 

[posts from hell]

Nope. Just trying to take it easy on you today. You seem to be in a particularly vunerable place at the moment.

It has all been said. Just because you refuse to hear it doesn't mean it isn't being said. Again, you are incapable of seeing realistically where the problem lies. But you seem to be very capable of demonstrating what your true motives are.

As much as I like your standpoint, I have to tell you this - step off your imaginary podium, and be one of us....

 

[deafdyke]

ryancher,
It does seem like a lot of parents who chose oral only , subconsciously chose it b/c they are still grieving about not having a "healthy normal (whatever that means) child. A lot of parents still seem to have a lot of psychological issues associated with having a kid who is "different" So a methodology which doesn't use "obviously special needs stuff" and may result in "normal school placement" is very appealing to parents.
Heck, I understand 100%. It took me MANY years to come to terms with the fact that I'm "different" and to accept that special needs stuff could (and DOES) in fact SIGNIFECNTLY IMPROVE my quality of life.
But then again, you see that a lot with ALL kinds of disabilites. It's not just limited to dhh. Blind/low vision kids are encouraged to use their residual vision and not use Braille and to be mainstreamed and assimlate into the mainstream. Kids who use wheelchairs and walkers are taught to think of themselves as "wheelchair bound" rather then seeing their wheelchairs or walkers or whatever as something freeing.

 

[jillio]

As much as I like your standpoint, I have to tell you this - step off your imaginary podium, and be one of us....

And how would you suggest that I accomplish that? I'm not certain that I know what you are referring to. Examples, please, of alternatives.

 

[jillio]

ryancher,
It does seem like a lot of parents who chose oral only , subconsciously chose it b/c they are still grieving about not having a "healthy normal (whatever that means) child. A lot of parents still seem to have a lot of psychological issues associated with having a kid who is "different" So a methodology which doesn't use "obviously special needs stuff" and may result in "normal school placement" is very appealing to parents.
Heck, I understand 100%. It took me MANY years to come to terms with the fact that I'm "different" and to accept that special needs stuff could (and DOES) in fact SIGNIFECNTLY IMPROVE my quality of life.
But then again, you see that a lot with ALL kinds of disabilites. It's not just limited to dhh. Blind/low vision kids are encouraged to use their residual vision and not use Braille and to be mainstreamed and assimlate into the mainstream. Kids who use wheelchairs and walkers are taught to think of themselves as "wheelchair bound" rather then seeing their wheelchairs or walkers or whatever as something freeing.

Agreed. Lack of true acceptance is seen in the parents of children with all various disabilities. It is also seen in the adults with acquired disabilities. Tends to create all sorts of secondary burdens and problems.