DOD Asks: How Would You Feel Showering With Gays?

rockin'robin

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WASHINGTON (July 9) -- The Pentagon wants to know if service members would attend military social functions with same-sex couples, whether they would be uncomfortable sharing a tent or shower with gay co-workers, and how their families would feel if they served in units that included gay men and lesbians.

Those are just some of the questions in a confidential survey sent to 400,000 active-duty and reserve troops this week as part of an effort to gauge reactions in the ranks if the military lifts its "don't ask, don't tell" policy that has kept gay and lesbian troops in the closet for the last 17 years.

Most of the survey (PDF), which went out Wednesday and was to have been kept under wraps, was leaked by an unidentified service member to the Palm Center, which shared it with AOL News and other media outlets. Some gay advocacy groups advised closeted troops not to answer the questionnaire in case they inadvertently outed themselves.

Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith confirmed that the 32 pages of leaked questions were an "authentic portion of the survey, but it isn't the complete version." She said the Defense Department would not formally release the full questionnaire.

On Thursday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said it was important to get all views on the issue and noted that not all gay rights groups opposed participation. "I strongly encourage gays and lesbians in the military to fill out these forms," he told reporters. He said the survey is being carried out to protect the confidentiality of those who take part. He noted that it was his decision to double the size of the survey sample from original plans because he "wanted a significant percentage of the force to have the opportunity to offer their views on this."

The $4.5 million survey is being conducted by a private contractor, Rockville, Md.-based Westat, which has experience surveying military communities. The questions use the often politically loaded words "gay," "lesbian" and "homosexual" interchangeably. Gay rights advocates reject the latter term as a clinical put-down used almost exclusively by opponents of lifting the current policy. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell acknowledged to reporters at a hastily arranged news briefing this afternoon that "homosexual" is a "loaded" term but said it was used in just seven yes-or-no questions and as part of the law is "a term at least some portion of our force is most familiar with."

Aaron Belkin, director of the Palm Center, a research institute at the University of California, Santa Barbara, that focuses on gender, sexuality and the military, said he was glad the Pentagon was "starting to educate the troops about what it will look like when gays can serve openly." Still, he said, "it's problematic to start asking questions like this about a minority group. What if you started asking service members if they would take orders from a Baptist officer? Or would you be OK living next to a Chinese family or something like that?"

He said such questions suggest that gays are "second-class citizens, and that signal undermines the very transition they're trying to manage" to meet President Barack Obama's call to end the current policy. He and other gay rights advocates who saw the questions said many of them are inappropriate.

Morrell spoke to reporters after the survey was leaked to counter what he said were "inflammatory in the worst case and misleading in the best case" accounts of its contents. He said charges by gay rights advocates that the survey is biased are "nonsense" and said it is "the only mechanism to to get a scientific gauge" of attitudes and potential challenges to repealing the law.

The spokesman rejected suggestions by reporters that questions about living quarters and bathing facilities were homophobic by their very nature, saying, "We would not be doing as comprehensive a job it we did not delve into the issues around privacy concerns." But when asked if it would be legal to build separate living quarters for gay troops, Morrell said it would be "premature to speculate what may be required."

The survey queries respondents on general issues like unit performance, teamwork and morale. One question asks troops to rate members of their unit on how much they "pull together to perform as a team" and whether those "in my immediate unit trust each other" and "really care about each other."

The survey delves into areas not typically deemed relevant to combat. "How important is it for unit members to socialize together off-duty?" it asks, also wanting to know how often co-workers get together during off hours.

It asks if respondents have ever worked with a leader or "coworker you believed to be homosexual" and asks them to rate the impact on the unit's ability to work together, on morale and on performance. Separate questions deal with those who have served with suspected gays in combat.

Two-thirds of the survey deals directly with the "don't ask, don't ask" policy and the perceived repercussions if it is repealed. It asks troops to rank how easy or difficult it will be for leadership to implement the policy and, among other things, "Hold Service members to the high standards of military personal conduct regardless of their sexual orientation?" "Make sure all Service members are treated with respect by their coworkers?" and "Enforce good order and discipline?"

Among the multiple-choice questions:

"If Don't Ask, Don't Tell is repealed and a gay or lesbian Service member attended a military social function with a same-sex partner, which are you most likely to do?" Among the choices: "Continue to attend military social functions," "Stop bringing my spouse, significant other or other family members with me to military social functions" and "Stop attending military social functions."

"If Don't Ask, Don't Tell is repealed and you are assigned to share a room, berth or field tent with someone you believe to be a gay or lesbian Service member, which are you most likely to do?" Among the choices: "Take no action," "Discuss how we expect each other to behave and conduct ourselves while sharing a room, berth or field tent," "Talk to a chaplain, mentor, or leader about how to handle the situation" and "Talk to a leader to see if I have other options."

In a question asking "the top THREE factors that enable you to fulfill your mission during combat?" the choices include: "Unit morale," "Similar moral values among unit members," "Having only heterosexual members in the unit," "Diversity among unit members" and "Trust among unit members."

The last question, after asking demographic questions on gender, race, age and rank: "Do you have any family members, friends or acquaintances who are gay or lesbian, or whom you believe to be gay or lesbian?" Polls have shown those who have a friend, family member or acquaintance who is gay are more likely to support gay rights.

"Surveying the troops is unprecedented," said Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. "It did not happen in 1948 when President Truman ended segregation, and it did not happen in 1976 when the service academies opened to women. Even when the military placed women on ships at sea, the Pentagon did not turn to a survey on how to bring about that cultural change."

View the Survey at PalmCenter.org (PDF).
Filed under: Nation, Politics

Leaked Survey Aims to Gauge Service Members' Reaction to Gays in Military
 
People need to get over it. It's more than likely nothing's going to happen if you drop that bar of soap, ya know?
 
Totally agree. Being gay doesn't mean you automatically want to jump every same sex person's bones. :roll:

"Surveying the troops is unprecedented," said Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. "It did not happen in 1948 when President Truman ended segregation, and it did not happen in 1976 when the service academies opened to women. Even when the military placed women on ships at sea, the Pentagon did not turn to a survey on how to bring about that cultural change."

The race/sex comparison doesn't work when talking about surveys here. Even the most racist and sexist of bigots have had some kind of exposure to women and other races. But most homophobes grow up with the idea that everyone is straight and that even when someone "chooses" to be gay, it's a rare thing, not like being a woman or of color. Homosexuality has a mysterious element to it that race and sex don't have because race and sex are for the most part much more visible than sexual orientation.
 
Isn't that just like the federal government, why spend money on useful things when they can waste it on useless garbage like this. Ya there is going to be some homophobic people in the military but this policy needs to be thrown out anyway. I mean it is 2010. Are we ever going to move on and focus on real issues or are we going to keep pushing this flawed mentality that you have to fit a mold.
 
How would women feel about showering with men and vice versa?

What about using the bathroom? Ias it ok for men to walk into a women's room and use the urinal?


Where exactly are the boundaries?
 
The survey itself isn't the issue to me. Journals and research articles often quote sources from surveys in order to make a point, if they deem the data source is valid enough for their purpose.

I don't really think honest surveys would do any harm aside from sparking up some temper from people.
In this case $4.5 million for this sounds a bit high just for asking the question. Seems to make it rather redundant to conduct. :|
 
The survey itself isn't the issue to me. Journals and research articles often quote sources from surveys in order to make a point, if they deem the data source is valid enough for their purpose.

I don't really think honest surveys would do any harm aside from sparking up some temper from people.
In this case $4.5 million for this sounds a bit high just for asking the question. Seems to make it rather redundant to conduct. :|

4.5 mil to do 400,000 surveys..

The survey itself probably cost in the 6 digits. The employees to mail it out, the employees to process the results, freight costs, printing costs, the logistics...

so yea.. i can see it costing $11.25 a survey to process it from start to finish.
 
What I said was, are the costs associated with the survey worth it for the question being asked. :P
 
'Fraid racism won't ever die until at least everyone on earth has the DNA heritage of all known races. :| Even then, there will probably be some radical group that appears proclaiming being the "elite" breed and wants to distinguish itself from the main crowd. Kinda like neo-nazism to an extent, money won't stop those folks.

But at this time. Jeez, $4.5 mill out of our pockets just for this question to the military? Production for one extra m1 abrams to use in war would be worth it at this point.
 
How would women feel about showering with men and vice versa?

So you never showered with gay men? How do you know?

What about using the bathroom? Ias it ok for men to walk into a women's room and use the urinal?

So you never went to restroom with gays? How do you know?

Women's restrooms don't have urinals, you know that?

Where exactly are the boundaries?

Same as usual - don't have sex in restrooms. Don't rape. Respect privacy.
 
So you never showered with gay men? How do you know?



So you never went to restroom with gays? How do you know?

Women's restrooms don't have urinals, you know that?



Same as usual - don't have sex in restrooms. Don't rape. Respect privacy.

I see how you did not answer my question.
 
How would women feel about showering with men and vice versa?

What about using the bathroom? Ias it ok for men to walk into a women's room and use the urinal?


Where exactly are the boundaries?

this is an issue...... how?

we have co-ed college dorm/apt. co-ed bathroom (yes there's such thing including shower... like at MIT). just because men and women are in same room doesn't mean the man wants to hump every single woman. The gay man wouldn't jump every man either.

so.... this is an issue.... how?
 
this is an issue...... how?

we have co-ed college dorm/apt. co-ed bathroom (yes there's such thing including shower... like at MIT). just because men and women are in same room doesn't mean the man wants to hump every single woman. The gay man wouldn't jump every man either.

so.... this is an issue.... how?

the issue is forcing someone to accept something they do not see as moral. It is infringement.

You may not have a problem with it, but someone else may have religious issues.
 
the issue is forcing someone to accept something they do not see as moral. It is infringement.

You may not have a problem with it, but someone else may have religious issues.

You are the one having issues, not your religious issues.
 
the issue is forcing someone to accept something they do not see as moral. It is infringement.

You may not have a problem with it, but someone else may have religious issues.

Ahhhhh! Here is a basic issue.

Freedom means allowing someone else to do something you personally do not approve of.

Morality means not being allowed to do something you see no harm in.

Are we a nation that permits individual freedom or are we a moral nation that enforces proper conduct?
 
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