Liar!

Oil is the only reason why we are able to sustain a population of 7 billion. We didn't hit the first billion until the early 1800s. I was born in 1983, we had a population of 4 billion at the time. We will be hitting the 7th as of next year.

Once the oil is depleted of, the mass population will go with it. Then Earth will be able to sustain a population of 500 million, maximum. We didn't have that many people before we discovered oil.

That's why we are trying to find alternative options rather than relying on oil for everything before it's too late. So no, I wouldn't say drilling for more oil is the solution. Instead, restricting oil drilling will force people to find alternative sources of energy.

To believe that we will find alternative sources of energy by allowing more oil drilling... we are being delusional. It'll just encourage people to suck more energy out of Earth. They will be doing nothing to prevent a catastrophic event from occurring.

History just keeps repeating itself.

Once the oil is depleted, it is going to be a catastrophic event beyond one's imagination.

I said drill for our own oil, and away from foreign sources of oil. I didn't say drill for more oil but rather use our own oil and gas resources instead. That alone will address our national security concerns. And when we're on that path we can adequately address alternative energy sources without endangering our national security on energy sources.

Name one energy source that can replace oil.

I'm curious.
 
Oil is the only reason why we are able to sustain a population of 7 billion. We didn't hit the first billion until the early 1800s. I was born in 1983, we had a population of 4 billion at the time. We will be hitting the 7th as of next year.

Once the oil is depleted of, the mass population will go with it. Then Earth will be able to sustain a population of 500 million, maximum. We didn't have that many people before we discovered oil.

That's why we are trying to find alternative options rather than relying on oil for everything before it's too late. So no, I wouldn't say drilling for more oil is the solution. Instead, restricting oil drilling will force people to find alternative sources of energy.

To believe that we will find alternative sources of energy by allowing more oil drilling... we are being delusional. It'll just encourage people to suck more energy out of Earth. They will be doing nothing to prevent a catastrophic event from occurring.

History just keeps repeating itself.

Once the oil is depleted, it is going to be a catastrophic event beyond one's imagination.

yep. just like a complete deforestation in England. or was it Ireland?
 
I said: "Technology continues to improve and we learn from each accident."

They didn't improve from it. They willingly ignored it because it's cheaper to pay the fines and damage than to invest in clean-up technology.
 
I said drill for our own oil, and away from foreign sources of oil. I didn't say drill for more oil but rather use our own oil and gas resources instead. That alone will address our national security concerns. And when we're on that path we can adequately address alternative energy sources without endangering our national security on energy sources.
Why haven't we done that before? Why our oil consumption is still growing higher and higher? Is that why Exxon-Mobil made world record profit?

Name one energy source that can replace oil.

I'm curious.
We said reduce our oil needs, not replace it. Please show us a post where we said we should replace oil.
 
When I'm referring to oil, I'm referring to the crude oil. Not vegetable oil, not canola oil, not corn oil, not olive oil, not peanut oil and whatever is out there.

I didn't say we need to eliminate our dependency on oil, but to restrict our access to it. As a result, we will be forced to seek alternative sources of energy. This will result in dividing our dependency onto multiple sources rather than just one. Right now, we are relying entirely on oil. 100%. This is not a good thing.

We need to put Earth first, not people if we want to preserve our species.
 
yep. just like a complete deforestation in England. or was it Ireland?

I'm not sure, but it could be both. I know Ireland is pretty bad at the moment. I think less than 10% of the country is forested.

The recent movie (flop), Robin Hood was filmed in England. They filmed in a national park. They never allowed anyone to film a movie there in the past.

The reason why they didn't allow it was to preserve the insects, animals, plants, etc. However, the UK is going bankrupt, they can't afford to say no to ludicrous offers from Hollywood.

The director, Ripley Scott had very little regard for the forest. He mocked the country by joking that they were trying to protect a butterfly. This somewhat caused me to lose some respect for him as a person. He's an acclaimed filmmaker, but he did appear rather cold on the subject of preserving the environment in England.
 
When I'm referring to oil, I'm referring to the crude oil. Not vegetable oil, not canola oil, not corn oil, not olive oil, not peanut oil and whatever is out there.

I didn't say we need to eliminate our dependency on oil, but to restrict our access to it. As a result, we will be forced to seek alternative sources of energy. This will result in dividing our dependency onto multiple sources rather than just one. Right now, we are relying entirely on oil. 100%. This is not a good thing.

We need to put Earth first, not people if we want to preserve our species.
Those food source alternatives you mention aren't as good a solution as they were once thought to be. This is because increasing demand for those food sources will drive up the prices.

And I don't think we are relying 100% on oil. We have hydroelectric dams, wind farms, and so on that are used as alternative energy sources.
 
Kokonut, there is solution for you to deal with gas price.
1) Find a job or find a second job if first job isn't enough, stop being on AD for 24/7
2) Buy a motorcycle that will help to save your money for gas
3) Use public transportation
4) Move to somewhere that closer to your work and less commute
5) Invest on alternative energy on your own
6) Buy a fuel efficient car with 30+ mpg
7) Learn to cope with gas price and and cut your spending like rid of cable subscription and broadband internet
8) Buy a bike and use for commute
 
Those food source alternatives you mention aren't as good a solution as they were once thought to be. This is because increasing demand for those food sources will drive up the prices.

Not really the point I was making, but yeah.

And I don't think we are relying 100% on oil. We have hydroelectric dams, wind farms, and so on that are used as alternative energy sources.

We have hydroelectric dams here too. Wind farms, ugh. They're an eyesore and you need a whole lot of them in order to provide enough for a small town. This means taking up a large amount of space just to provide that. Not to mention they can be noisy.
 
Those food source alternatives you mention aren't as good a solution as they were once thought to be. This is because increasing demand for those food sources will drive up the prices.

And I don't think we are relying 100% on oil. We have hydroelectric dams, wind farms, and so on that are used as alternative energy sources.

Not when it comes to transportation, there's nothing on the market that can replace oil as its energy source. Even wind farms kill thousands of birds and bats every year.

Stay away from food organics as an energy source. I'd say look toward perhaps algae oil as a potential source.
 
Those food source alternatives you mention aren't as good a solution as they were once thought to be. This is because increasing demand for those food sources will drive up the prices.
If we destroy our pristine enviroment for "Drill Baby Drill" agenda... then expect living on NASA-like food filled with high corn fructose syrup.

And I don't think we are relying 100% on oil. We have hydroelectric dams, wind farms, and so on that are used as alternative energy sources.
lol Never said 100% on oil but we are heavily dependent on oil. Unfortunately - because of the size and geography of America and the population.... those alternative energy sources like hydro-dam, wind farm, etc. are impractical at this moment. That's why we ventured on nuclear power plants. But we must continue on researching and improving it. As Banjo said - if we drill drill drill, we have no strong incentive to pursue alternative energy technology. At same time - we should improve our urban planning to make it more mass transit-oriented.
 
Not really the point I was making, but yeah.

We have hydroelectric dams here too. Wind farms, ugh. They're an eyesore and you need a whole lot of them in order to provide enough for a small town. This means taking up a large amount of space just to provide that. Not to mention they can be noisy.

I agree. It's an eyesore. Even at my aunt's house just now looking across I can see hundreds of those wind turbines off in the distance.
 
Either that or he's completely clueless on this whole oil drilling business.
How's that hopey change working out for ya?

There is a reason they're doing this, to block off oil production within and around the US. It would appear as though we are being kept "dependent on foreign oil," but that is a smokescreen for an ulterior motive - strategic. The idea is to leave our oil supply alone and use up our hostiles' supplies so that when we do go to war with them, they will not be able to fight back because they won't have fuel to power their military forces, a lesson learned by Germany when their resources were cut off during WWII. The US wants to make sure it doesn't happen. There's Saudi Arabia, Russia, UAE. Now, I'm not sure why Canada has been our largest importer. We would want to use less of their oil if the strategy was the case, so that we could use it later when crunch time came.

A problem I see with this strategy is being cut off from oil before the exporters to the US runs out. Another would be the possibility that oil creation within the earth is not biogenic-based, but abiogenic-based.

The Soviet Union supported the latter theory back in the '50s to the '80s. The abiogenic hypothesis argues that petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. The presence of methane on Saturn's moon Titan is cited as evidence supporting the formation of hydrocarbons without biology. Supporters of the abiogenic hypothesis suggest that a great deal more petroleum exists on Earth than commonly thought, and that petroleum may originate from carbon-bearing fluids that migrate upward from the mantle. If that's the case, then the peak oil theory of flat-running-out may simply be a cover to justify the oil companies' charging $100-150 a barrel. In other words, ripping us off at the pump. AND the militaries around the world would still be able to defend themselves for a long time...

We'll have to see now the next 20 years plays out. I did notice, however, that no national policy or direction has been SOLIDLY laid down. Just saw them saying "WE NEED TO GET OFF OIL!" They're not addressing HOW do we do that. Problem is, with our current technology, you HAVE to use oil to make energy; to make energy to power the power tools and equipment used to even build a NUCLEAR power plant. First of all, you have to have tractors to make the roads accessible so that trucks can get out there and install power lines or generators to power said building equipment. What about the petroleum-based sheaths on the power lines made to not only protect them from corrosion, but also shorts and coming in contact with the ground and killing animals that land on the wires? What are you going to use to power the furnaces that refine the ores into usable, malleable materials used to manufacture a nuclear plant? You have to follow these same principles even when building a solar panel factory. You have to start somewhere. The technology we use today is manufactured with many layers of previous technology in terms of type of fuel used to make this stuff, like our cell phones, our computers, our fancy, useless digital hearing aids.

What we have to do is instead of continuing on the path we're on, use the petroleum-based technology we have now to leverage ourselves into clean energy, and then one day, we can use clean energy to power the equipment used to build the access roads and lay power lines out to a clean-energy power plant. We can use the clean energy for anything at that point.

We are decades away from this, because you have infrastructure to replace, i.e., gas stations, delivery/distribution systems, converting landfills to waste-to-energy power plants with zero emissions, even the vehicles, tractors, engines for the trains. On top of this, you have to acknowledge the politics of an industry about to undergo a massive change. Unlike before, with major technological changes, i.e., going from horse-and-buggy to cars, going from railroads to tractors on highways, going from railroads to planes for long passenger hauls, you can't just close the industry down and lay everyone off WITHOUT giving support to transition all of them to other lines of work. Train the train engineers to be pilots, the engine mechanics to be aircraft power plant mechanics, the people maintaining the train hardware to be aircraft mechanics, etc. Not that I would advocate going to less efficient forms of mass transit for heavy-tonnage cargo, but it did happen to a great degree as technology progressed. You have to offer the industry players an incentive to make the transition, like "If you'll go to school to learn to harness geothermal wells, not only will we pay for your education, we will look at your current salary and help you maintain that while you go to school so you don't have to make disruptive financial changes to your lifestyle." Otherwise, forget it. If the incentive doesn't happen, it most likely will not happen within my lifetime (next 50-80 years).

If the incentive to change does not happen, then you might have to consider on a personal level whether it would be risky to get the education to work for a solar panel manufacturing plant, a windmill farm in Texas, or at one of the geothermal plants in the west. If your families are of the generational type, meaning you tend to follow your parents into the lines of work they do or take over their businesses, then these areas would do very well for the next 80 years, PROVIDED that things work out that way. You know how that goes...

Oh, one more thing - what are you going to use to generate power to recharge those electric cars? Even if we all had electric cars, we'd have to generate a massive amount of electricity in order to keep them charged.

The only viable alternative I see is to go back to horse and buggies AND GET THE SNIP-SNIP, PEOPLE. Quit making babies. I've already done my part; it won't happen with me, no matter who I'm with. :P

Stephanie
 
If we destroy our pristine enviroment for "Drill Baby Drill" agenda... then expect living on NASA-like food filled with high corn fructose syrup.


Then we can die out within generations from going blind with diabetes and becoming sterile.

"Captain, it is my finding that these people are blind, dying, and unable to communicate. There is apparently no plant life intact on the planet. Shall we initiate rescue efforts?"

"Unfortunately, Number One, after looking at the situation, the best course of action appears to put them to sleep. That way, the inhabitants can go peacefully, and we can put up a warning beacon for other travelers to stay away from this planet."

Without oxygen, we're dead within seconds.
Without water, we're dead within days.
Without food, we're dead within weeks to months.

So no, we probably won't even last a single generation.
 
There is a reason they're doing this, to block off oil production within and around the US. It would appear as though we are being kept "dependent on foreign oil," but that is a smokescreen for an ulterior motive - strategic. The idea is to leave our oil supply alone and use up our hostiles' supplies so that when we do go to war with them, they will not be able to fight back because they won't have fuel to power their military forces, a lesson learned by Germany when their resources were cut off during WWII. The US wants to make sure it doesn't happen. There's Saudi Arabia, Russia, UAE. Now, I'm not sure why Canada has been our largest importer. We would want to use less of their oil if the strategy was the case, so that we could use it later when crunch time came.

A problem I see with this strategy is being cut off from oil before the exporters to the US runs out. Another would be the possibility that oil creation within the earth is not biogenic-based, but abiogenic-based.

The Soviet Union supported the latter theory back in the '50s to the '80s. The abiogenic hypothesis argues that petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. The presence of methane on Saturn's moon Titan is cited as evidence supporting the formation of hydrocarbons without biology. Supporters of the abiogenic hypothesis suggest that a great deal more petroleum exists on Earth than commonly thought, and that petroleum may originate from carbon-bearing fluids that migrate upward from the mantle. If that's the case, then the peak oil theory of flat-running-out may simply be a cover to justify the oil companies' charging $100-150 a barrel. In other words, ripping us off at the pump. AND the militaries around the world would still be able to defend themselves for a long time...

We'll have to see now the next 20 years plays out. I did notice, however, that no national policy or direction has been SOLIDLY laid down. Just saw them saying "WE NEED TO GET OFF OIL!" They're not addressing HOW do we do that. Problem is, with our current technology, you HAVE to use oil to make energy; to make energy to power the power tools and equipment used to even build a NUCLEAR power plant. First of all, you have to have tractors to make the roads accessible so that trucks can get out there and install power lines or generators to power said building equipment. What about the petroleum-based sheaths on the power lines made to not only protect them from corrosion, but also shorts and coming in contact with the ground and killing animals that land on the wires? What are you going to use to power the furnaces that refine the ores into usable, malleable materials used to manufacture a nuclear plant? You have to follow these same principles even when building a solar panel factory. You have to start somewhere. The technology we use today is manufactured with many layers of previous technology in terms of type of fuel used to make this stuff, like our cell phones, our computers, our fancy, useless digital hearing aids.

What we have to do is instead of continuing on the path we're on, use the petroleum-based technology we have now to leverage ourselves into clean energy, and then one day, we can use clean energy to power the equipment used to build the access roads and lay power lines out to a clean-energy power plant. We can use the clean energy for anything at that point.

We are decades away from this, because you have infrastructure to replace, i.e., gas stations, delivery/distribution systems, converting landfills to waste-to-energy power plants with zero emissions, even the vehicles, tractors, engines for the trains. On top of this, you have to acknowledge the politics of an industry about to undergo a massive change. Unlike before, with major technological changes, i.e., going from horse-and-buggy to cars, going from railroads to tractors on highways, going from railroads to planes for long passenger hauls, you can't just close the industry down and lay everyone off WITHOUT giving support to transition all of them to other lines of work. Train the train engineers to be pilots, the engine mechanics to be aircraft power plant mechanics, the people maintaining the train hardware to be aircraft mechanics, etc. Not that I would advocate going to less efficient forms of mass transit for heavy-tonnage cargo, but it did happen to a great degree as technology progressed. You have to offer the industry players an incentive to make the transition, like "If you'll go to school to learn to harness geothermal wells, not only will we pay for your education, we will look at your current salary and help you maintain that while you go to school so you don't have to make disruptive financial changes to your lifestyle." Otherwise, forget it. If the incentive doesn't happen, it most likely will not happen within my lifetime (next 50-80 years).

If the incentive to change does not happen, then you might have to consider on a personal level whether it would be risky to get the education to work for a solar panel manufacturing plant, a windmill farm in Texas, or at one of the geothermal plants in the west. If your families are of the generational type, meaning you tend to follow your parents into the lines of work they do or take over their businesses, then these areas would do very well for the next 80 years, PROVIDED that things work out that way. You know how that goes...

Oh, one more thing - what are you going to use to generate power to recharge those electric cars? Even if we all had electric cars, we'd have to generate a massive amount of electricity in order to keep them charged.

The only viable alternative I see is to go back to horse and buggies AND GET THE SNIP-SNIP, PEOPLE. Quit making babies. I've already done my part; it won't happen with me, no matter who I'm with. :P

Stephanie


That's one theory though not entirely an implausible one but I doubt that the strategy we're doing is to purposely use up oil from other countries first. You see, it may take a decade or two to have all of our domestic oil in place, and completely energy independent. We have more oil available to us on our soil than all of the Middle East.
 
We have more oil available to us on our soil than all of the Middle East.

Is that a fact? that we have more oil in America alone than all Middle East countries?

source please?
 
Then we can die out within generations from going blind with diabetes and becoming sterile.

"Captain, it is my finding that these people are blind, dying, and unable to communicate. There is apparently no plant life intact on the planet. Shall we initiate rescue efforts?"

"Unfortunately, Number One, after looking at the situation, the best course of action appears to put them to sleep. That way, the inhabitants can go peacefully, and we can put up a warning beacon for other travelers to stay away from this planet."

Without oxygen, we're dead within seconds.
Without water, we're dead within days.
Without food, we're dead within weeks to months.

So no, we probably won't even last a single generation.

That's the least of our worries. It'd be war and diseases that'll hit us within our lifetime.
 
If we destroy our pristine enviroment for "Drill Baby Drill" agenda... then expect living on NASA-like food filled with high corn fructose syrup.


lol Never said 100% on oil but we are heavily dependent on oil. Unfortunately - because of the size and geography of America and the population.... those alternative energy sources like hydro-dam, wind farm, etc. are impractical at this moment. That's why we ventured on nuclear power plants. But we must continue on researching and improving it. As Banjo said - if we drill drill drill, we have no strong incentive to pursue alternative energy technology. At same time - we should improve our urban planning to make it more mass transit-oriented.

No shit...

I have no idea why we haven't gotten better public transit and smaller houses yet.

Mom remembered the "wartime" houses where houses were like only 600sq each, and you a tinyass backyard that is only big enough to do summer gardening in.
 
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