Key liberal congressman flips to 'yes' on health care vote

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kokonut said:
I suggest you take the time to read up on these things. We're paying some $350 billion dollars a year on interest alone for borrowing money each year, including Obama. The Obama administration continues to borrow money at a record pace and spending money at a record pace. We don't have the money to support the increasing and expanding govt programs such as the health care bill (if passed) which won't kick in until 4 years later. All these things will come to screeching halt if we don't stop with the reckless spending over something we don't have. It's like maxing out on 10 different credit cards in order to pay the bills of previous credit cards already maxed out. It's a vicious cycle that will do nobody no good. What good is it for these programs if we go bankrupt or don't have the money in the first place?
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is that what they said about FDR's New Deal? :hmm:
 
Foxrac said:
I believe that budget deficit would decrease in few years after economy recover in completely and just give more time. During Great Depression and economy isn't recover in completely until around early 1950's after went down in late 1920's.

Capitalism is supposed to be fragile and don't mess with them or economy will crash, that's my views and some of capitalism need regulation as well.
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no I disagree. Capitalism is pretty robust. So robust that USSR fell apart. So robust that China is integrating it into its affair. So robust that USA is #1 superpower country.
 
TXgolfer said:
I have a savings acct that I have paid into for 22 years for health care. Never made a withdrawl. I put the amount equal to my premiums and deductable would be into that account. Why should I be required by law to purchase insurance now? That's been my point all along. This plan is not fair to everyone. Some of us chose not to be insured and were responsible about it.
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If you get into an accident or come down with a life-threatening disease and you cant pay for your medical bills? Who will pay for them, then?

yesterday, I busted my hand open and had to go to the ER..got Xrays and stuff..all that will cost over $500 so I am thankful to have medical insurance. People who cant afford to do what you do will end up with these kinds of bills if they get hurt or sick.
 
Jiro said:
no I disagree. Capitalism is pretty robust. So robust that USSR fell apart. So robust that China is integrating it into its affair. So robust that USA is #1 superpower country.
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He's sorta right.

Unregulated free market have the high booms and the extremely low bust-- the Depression and several waves of recessions before it proved that. Regulating it to a certain degree helped the bust more bearable, although you don't get the high booms and rapid economic growth as much anymore-- at least until something changed within the last few years that caused this recession that showed the flaws of regulated capitalism.

United States is far from being unregulated, and it has been regulated for over 60-80 years now.
 
shel90 said:
If you get into an accident or come down with a life-threatening disease and you cant pay for your medical bills? Who will pay for them, then?

yesterday, I busted my hand open and had to go to the ER..got Xrays and stuff..all that will cost over $500 so I am thankful to have medical insurance. People who cant afford to do what you do will end up with these kinds of bills if they get hurt or sick.
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Exactly my point. Some can afford other options and some can't so a mandate for all is not fair for all.

What about people with medical trust funds who don't want to pay for a plan that limits the Drs they can see. Why should they have to pay for health insurance or face jail time?
 
kokonut said:
I suggest you take the time to read up on these things. We're paying some $350 billion dollars a year on interest alone for borrowing money each year, including Obama. The Obama administration continues to borrow money at a record pace and spending money at a record pace. We don't have the money to support the increasing and expanding govt programs such as the health care bill (if passed) which won't kick in until 4 years later. All these things will come to screeching halt if we don't stop with the reckless spending over something we don't have. It's like maxing out on 10 different credit cards in order to pay the bills of previous credit cards already maxed out. It's a vicious cycle that will do nobody no good. What good is it for these programs if we go bankrupt or don't have the money in the first place?
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Well, I don't need your suggestion because I don't want listen to your conservative views.

Jiro, I will reply your post later because I have appointment today, however some of your post made a good point and get have some questions.
 
TXgolfer said:
Exactly my point. Some can afford other options and some can't so a mandate for all is not fair for all.

What about people with medical trust funds who don't want to pay for a plan that limits the Drs they can see. Why should they have to pay for health insurance or face jail time?
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I dont agree with the jail time. I think a public option should be offered. Pay for your own private health insurance or get free healthcare. I am sure there are many who wouldnt want to be without health insurance.
 
kokonut said:
I suggest you take the time to read up on these things. We're paying some $350 billion dollars a year on interest alone for borrowing money each year, including Obama. The Obama administration continues to borrow money at a record pace and spending money at a record pace. We don't have the money to support the increasing and expanding govt programs such as the health care bill (if passed) which won't kick in until 4 years later. All these things will come to screeching halt if we don't stop with the reckless spending over something we don't have. It's like maxing out on 10 different credit cards in order to pay the bills of previous credit cards already maxed out. It's a vicious cycle that will do nobody no good. What good is it for these programs if we go bankrupt or don't have the money in the first place?
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The bold is why I really want to see it pass. The majority of people who still support Health care don't realize we are years away from this being put in play. It will be fun to see the looks on their faces when they realize this. Talk about backlash.

Meanwhile the Republican plan of tort reform and allowing insurance to sell across state lines costs the taxpayer $0 and could be implemented on the first day of the month following the vote.
 
TXgolfer said:
Exactly my point. Some can afford other options and some can't so a mandate for all is not fair for all.

What about people with medical trust funds who don't want to pay for a plan that limits the Drs they can see. Why should they have to pay for health insurance or face jail time?
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I want to make sure. medical trust funds is not medical insurance?
 
shel90 said:
I dont agree with the jail time. I think a public option should be offered. Pay for your own private health insurance or get free healthcare. I am sure there are many who wouldnt want to be without health insurance.
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well I doubt they would put people in jail for not getting one. It's just like Census's empty threat. A few? probably but a lot of them? nah.
 
souggy said:
He's sorta right.

Unregulated free market have the high booms and the extremely low bust-- the Depression and several waves of recessions before it proved that. Regulating it to a certain degree helped the bust more bearable, although you don't get the high booms and rapid economic growth as much anymore-- at least until something changed within the last few years that caused this recession that showed the flaws of regulated capitalism.

United States is far from being unregulated, and it has been regulated for over 60-80 years now.
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that is what I'm referring to. the capitalism in America. Unregulated? no way. Beside - is there such a thing as pure unregulated capitalism nowadays? if there was - it's short-lived.
 
Jiro said:
that is what I'm referring to. the capitalism in America. Unregulated? no way. Beside - is there such a thing as pure unregulated capitalism nowadays?
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I got a time machine to go back to Manchester in the good ol' days :lol:
 
Jiro said:
I want to make sure. medical trust funds is not medical insurance?
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No,it's not insurance. I set one up for my daughter. Funded by me. It is a trust that is invested in low risk securities and it will only make distributions for preset health related expenses for my daughter and her descendants. It's cash.....so she can opt for any procedure with any Dr. No worries about an insurance co. denying a claim. No worry about the ins. company folding. No phone calls. Plus most Dr's charge less if you are paying cash. Mine does.
 
TXgolfer said:
No,it's not insurance. I set one up for my daughter. Funded by me. It is a trust that is invested in low risk securities and it will only make distributions for preset health related expenses for my daughter and her descendants. It's cash.....so she can opt for any procedure with any Dr. No worries about an insurance co. denying a claim. No worry about the ins. company folding. No phone calls. Plus most Dr's charge less if you are paying cash. Mine does.
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ah I see :hmm:

and the only risk with this way is that it can cover anything until it's $0, yes?
 
Jiro said:
ah I see :hmm:

and the only risk with this way is that it can cover anything until it's $0, yes?
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Correct. But chances are an insurance company will stop paying before the fund would run out. Alot of people buy insurance with the trust...not a bad idea if you can see most of your Dr's under the plan. But to be mandated to do so is wrong.
 
Remember most health insurance has a lifetime benefit cap. Usually between $1-2 million. For personal policies they are almost always $1 million
 
Tx - your perspective is the same as mine.

I totally hate the idea of "must buy insurance or jail."

I like the european idea - the government is required to provide insurance. People like you can just go anywhere you want bcuz of cash.

And it's true.. going to doctors - Cash: $90 for a visit, cool. Insurance $120-140. wtf.

I prefer to pay for my own healthcare. Thats what I do, at least.
 
TXgolfer said:
Correct. But chances are an insurance company will stop paying before the fund would run out. Alot of people buy insurance with the trust...not a bad idea if you can see most of your Dr's under the plan. But to be mandated to do so is wrong.
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agreed hence my previous post with 3 no's in incremental size. I didn't know about medical trust fund but cool. And of course.... if you want a piece of mind for extra penny... you can opt for health insurance with premium coverage.

As for people especially middle class who can't afford it.... well...... :aw:
 
Jiro said:
no I disagree. Capitalism is pretty robust. So robust that USSR fell apart. So robust that China is integrating it into its affair. So robust that USA is #1 superpower country.
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Well, I guess that I need to rephrase because my first post don't make sense or too confused. For capitalism, it require to have financial responsibility and regulation, especially for government to prevent from economy crash but some of our regulation has some holes and need be fixed via reform. I recalled about Obama want reform the financial institution, including bank, credit, mortgage to prevent from economy downturn in near future but failed in last year due conservative. I asked you a question about why does we have economy crash at several time?

Capitalism is most effective that how economy works, that why I favor in capitalism but some of social thing, including social security, section 8 housing, WIC, food stamp, etc are fine as well. I have say that have capitalism could be complicated in many developing countries but if it is too easy so all part of Latin America will be developed in many years ago.

Yup, capitalism don't require democracy or free of speech, look at Russia, China, Vietnam, Iran, they are authoritarian or corrupted government since they use capitalism in economy.

I think that collapse of USSR had contributed to invasion of Afghan in 1979 until 1989 because USSR is running out of money and no way to work out to save the communist from fall so they decided to have massive change after that. Have Marxist views wouldn't work out without capitalism, of course, IMO.
 
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