Should the 9/11 trial be held in NYC?

[Reba]

Do you think the trial for Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (KSM) should be held in NYC or in GITMO?

Here are some viewpoints to get things started:

Giuliani: Obama Repeating 'Mistake of History' With Sept. 11 Trial Decision

The mayor who oversaw rescue efforts in the wake of the attacks on lower Manhattan tells "Fox News Sunday" the president is only granting the "wish" of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad at the expense of the American people and that the conspirators should be tried in a military tribunal.
Click here to find out more!

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani accused the Obama administration of "repeating the mistake of history" by bringing the self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks and his accomplices to New York for a civilian trial, saying the administration has definitively reverted to a "pre-9/11 approach."

The mayor who oversaw rescue and recovery efforts in the wake of the attacks on lower Manhattan told "Fox News Sunday" the president is only granting the "wish" of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad at the expense of the American people and that the conspirators should be tried in a military tribunal.

He questioned why the administration would use the tribunals for other suspects but not the Sept. 11 conspirators.

"What the Obama administration is telling us loud and clear is that both in substance and reality, the War on Terror from their point of view is over," Giuliani said. "(Mohammad) should be tried in a military tribunal. He is a war criminal. This is an act of war."

The Obama administration's decision Friday to bring the alleged conspirators to New York has triggered a backlash from those who say a civilian trial affords the defendants rights they do not deserve, treats them as ordinary criminals and could be used as a platform to spew anti-American rhetoric as well as critique the actions of the Bush administration.

Giuliani said the biggest problem is that the United States is treating terrorists as it did after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which was followed by a string of other terrorist attacks on Americans overseas and finally by the Sept. 11 massacre.

And he suggested that such a high-profile trial in New York City would burden New York City both with the added risk of an attack and the added cost of security expenses.

"Of course it's going to create more security concerns. Just wait and see how much New York City spends on this in order to protect him," Giuliani said. "This gives all the benefits to the terrorists and much less benefits to the public."

Former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey has also criticized the decision.

But others are standing by the Obama administration, arguing that a federal civilian trial held according to the standards of U.S. law is a victory for the United States against terrorism.

Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., told "Fox News Sunday" that, contrary to Giuliani's claim, a military tribunal trial would grant Mohammad's wish to be seen as a "holy warrior."

"If we try him before military officers, that image of a soldier will be portrayed by the Islamic community. That's not the image we want," Reed said.

He said that acquittals in the case are "highly unlikely," and that convictions reached in civilian court will deal a blow to those who sought to wreck American society. When the jury hands down the verdict, Reed said, "He will know he's lost."

White House Senior Adviser David Axelrod told CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday that nearly 200 terrorism cases have been tried in the courts since 2001 with a 91 percent success rate, and that "we're very confident" about the upcoming New York trials. He said the decision was made by Attorney General Eric Holder, in concert with Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" that she welcomes the trial. Federal officials are expected to seek the death penalty in the case.

Giuliani: Obama Repeating 'Mistake of History' With Sept. 11 Trial Decision - FOXNews.com

Blinded Prison Guard: Don't House Terror Suspects in NYC

Saturday, November 14, 2009
By Joseph Abrams

The high-security prison in New York City where 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is expected to be sent to await his trial has a supermax wing to keep even the most notorious criminals quiet — but it isn't perfect. Just ask Louis Pepe.

Ten months before Al Qaeda in 2001 struck a deathblow in the heart lower Manhattan, one of the terrorist group's founding members plunged a sharpened comb through Pepe's left eye and into his brain, blinding the 42-year-old prison guard and causing severe brain injuries that plague him to this day.

Pepe told FoxNews.com he worries that sending Mohammed and four of his alleged fellow 9/11 conspirators to New York could compromise the safety of the guards at the MCC prison. Keeping the prisoners in one location, he said, was especially dangerous.

"Could you imagine over there what they're gonna do, God forbid?" asked Pepe, now 52, who lost feeling in the right side of his body and most of his ability to speak. "After all these years, you'd think they should know."

On Nov. 1, 2000, Pepe was ambushed in the cell of Mamdouh Mahmud Salim — an alleged top aide to Usama bin Laden. Salim's cellmate, another Al Qaeda suspect, joined in the attack, which prosecutors say was an attempt to steal Pepe's keys to the cell block to free other prisoners and take hostages.

The two had been granted permission by a federal judge to purchase hot sauce, says Pepe's sister, which they then stored in a honey jar and used to create a blinding mace. Teaming up against Pepe, they beat and blinded him, covering the floor in his spattered blood. They then tried to rape him as he waited an entire hour for fellow guards to come to his aid, his sister said.

"They wanted to discredit the badge and what he stood for," Eileen Trotta told FoxNews.com. "After they plunged him in the eye with that makeshift knife, they did the sign of the cross on his chest."

Trotta said it would be like "deja vu" to see more Al Qaeda detainees shipped into New York for trial, where their court hearings will be just blocks from Ground Zero

"There's no reason why everything has to be in New York, especially after 9/11 and what happened to Louis," she said. "It doesn't make sense — why bring them into the hotbed of the city?"

The Obama administration announced Friday morning it was ending the military commissions that were trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his four co-defendants at Guantanamo Bay, and would transfer them into civilian courts — and out of the military prison complex that has kept them confined for the better part of a decade.

The federal Bureau of Prisons, which administers the MCC complex in New York, said the jail has long housed "some of the most dangerous offenders" in the nation — and housed them safely. Accused terrorists linked to Al Qaeda plots are currently being held in cells on "10 South," the prison's notorious 10th floor, where the convicted leaders of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center were held during their trial.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he supported the Obama administration's decision to bring the suspects to New York to face justice near the World Trade Center site where so many New Yorkers were murdered.

"I have great confidence that the NYPD, with federal authorities, will handle security expertly," Bloomberg said. "The NYPD is the best police department in the world and it has experience dealing with high-profile terrorism suspects and any logistical issues that may come up during the trials."

The Bureau of Prisons said the attack on Pepe was nearly unique and that the prison's highly trained staff are prepared for any class of criminal.

"That was an extraordinarily brutal attack and I don't believe they've experienced anything like that since then," said Traci Billingsley, a spokeswoman for the bureau.

Billingsley said she could not discuss whether security measures have changed since Pepe was nearly killed in 2000, nor could she discuss whether any new steps would be taken if more Al Qaeda suspects are sent to the MCC.

But those reassurances were little consolation for Pepe and his sister, who said the government was quick to forget the terrible lesson of his attack.

"We're such a lax country — we don't learn from our mistakes," Trotta told FoxNews.com. "We have to protect our own, and at this point we're not doing it.

"After almost 10 years I'm still seeing my brother struggling very hard to have some kind of semblance of life."

Blinded Prison Guard: Don't House Terror Suspects in NYC - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

 

[Reba]

New Yorkers cry for 9/11 plotters' executions

By REBECCA ROSENBERG and CARL CAMPANILE

Last Updated: 12:29 PM, November 14, 2009

Outraged New Yorkers said yesterday that admitted 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed and four other terrorists deserve to be put to death -- and some even volunteered for the job.

"Kill them without a trial. Just a bullet in the head and say goodbye. Why waste taxpayer money?" said Thomas Pland, 70, a truck driver from Astoria, Queens.

"If they want me to do it," he added, "I will."

Mike Keane, owner of O'Hara's Restaurant & Pub a block from Ground Zero, said: "They should have taken care of them in Guantanamo Bay. Hang them there. It would have been quicker and easier."

But first, he added, "we should waterboard them a little more."

Families of 9/11 victims slammed the White House for affording the mass murderers the same legal rights as Americans, instead of prosecuting them as foreign enemies in military tribunals.

"I'm a hundred thousand percent against this move. They're war criminals!" said retired firefighter Joe Holland, whose son, Joseph III, a commodities trader, died in the World Trade Center's north tower.

"This is crazy. This is insane. They're going to make a mockery of the whole court system 10 blocks away from the World Trade Center. They're going to scream for holy war in America."

Peter Gadiel, head of 9/11 Families for a Secure America, fumed, "I never thought we could have gotten a worse president than George Bush. But we got one.

"The president wants a circus? He should hold the trial in Lafayette Park at the White House. That makes as much sense," added Gadiel, whose son, James, a Cantor Fitzgerald employee, died on 9/11.

Debra Burlingame, whose brother Charles was piloting one of the hijacked jets, called the upcoming trials in the city a "travesty."

"This is going to make us look like fools in the Muslim world," she said.

But retired firefighter James Riches, whose firefighter son, Jimmy, died on 9/11, said he would give President Obama the benefit of the doubt -- for now.

"Hopefully, we're doing the right thing. But if this all goes awry, I'm going to hold Obama and his Justice Department responsible," Riches said.

Views were mixed among downtown workers.

Katelyn Collins, a 24-year-old legal assistant from Brooklyn, said: "I want to see justice firsthand. I pass Ground Zero every day and see the destruction -- a giant hole in the ground."

In the political world, Republicans blasted the decision, while Democrats backed it.

"I will believe until the day I die that Sept. 11 was an act of war and not just another criminal act," former Mayor Rudy Giuliani said. "This confirms my worst expectations for the Obama administration, that they would be in denial with regard to the danger of Islamic terrorism."

Rep. Peter King (R-LI) said, "This is as bad of a decision as any president has ever made."

But Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-Manhattan), whose district includes Ground Zero, said trying the 9/11 plotters near the scene of the crime is poetic justice.

"New York is not afraid of terrorists, we want to confront them, we want to bring them to justice, and we want to hold them accountable for their despicable actions."

Additional reporting by Maggie Haberman in New York and Daphne Retter in Washington

New Yorkers cry for 9/11 plotters' executions

 

[kokonut]

One of the lamest, dangerous, and most stupid move by the administration to move the trial to NYC. Guiliani has it right.

.... the biggest problem is that the United States is treating terrorists as it did after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which was followed by a string of other terrorist attacks on Americans overseas and finally by the Sept. 11 massacre.

These things do not need to take place in a civilian court room. You have 10 million angry New Yorkers and Obama is going to put Muhammed in the middle of those angry New Yorkers. Obama is just getting nuttier and nuttier and he's supposedly a Constitutional scholar? Phhhttt. Right.

 

[Jiro]

answer is - NOT IN MY BACKYARD

 

[Beowulf]

Good luck with finding bona fide evidence against the "plotters."

 

[kokonut]

Might want to direct that to New Yorkers who will see this guy in their backyard and that Obama is treating him like a U.S. citizen.

 

[Jiro]

Might want to direct that to New Yorkers who will see this guy in their backyard and that Obama is treating him like a U.S. citizen.

we will treat them the same way we treated Red Sox fans

and no Obama is not treating him like US citizen. He's being tried as war prisoner. War prisoner actually has rights, you know? It's called Geneva Convention. Let's not try to get clever with words to evoke blind anger, shall we? we are the country of law and order. who are we to preach to other nations if we do not follow our own laws or ignore Geneva Convention?

bottom line - Gitmo Camp has court. they should be tried there.

 

[Reba]

In 2006, Obama supported a military trial for KSM:

...someone like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is going to get basically a full military trial, with all of the bells and whistles. He will have counsel, he will be able to present evidence, and he will be able to rebut the Government’s case. The feeling is that he is guilty of a war crime and to do otherwise might violate some of our agreements under the Geneva Conventions. I think that is good, that we are going to provide him with some procedure and process. I think we will convict him, and I think he will be brought to justice. I think justice will be carried out in his case...
I believe we could actually set up a system in which a military tribunal is sufficient to make a determination as to whether someone is an enemy combatant and would not require the sort of traditional habeas corpus....

Context Of Obama’s 2006 KSM Remarks | Sweetness & Light

 

[Reba]

Is Obama trying to sabotage the trial?

Obama: Professed 9/11 mastermind will be convicted

By Devlin Barrett, Associated Press Writer
November 18, 2009

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama predicted that professed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed will be convicted, as Attorney General Eric Holder defended putting him through the U.S. civilian legal system.

In one of a series of TV interviews during his trip to Asia, Obama said those offended by the legal privileges given to Mohammed by virtue of getting a civilian trial rather than a military tribunal won’t find it "offensive at all when he’s convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him."

Obama quickly added that he did not mean to suggest he was prejudging the outcome of Mohammed’s trial. "I’m not going to be in that courtroom," he said. "That’s the job of the prosecutors, the judge and the jury."

In interviews broadcast on NBC and CNN Wednesday, the president also said that experienced prosecutors in the case who specialize in terrorism have offered assurances that "we’ll convict this person with the evidence they’ve got, going through our system." …

Given that Mr. Obama is a lawyer, and that he taught law, and that he claims to be a Constitutional scholar – for him to make such statements seems like he is intentionally trying to wreck the government’s case even before it begins.

Sure, Mr. Obama made a show of walking back his first remark. But any competent lawyer would argue that the damage has already been done.

Just imagine the uproar if a Republican had said anything like this about someone on trial.

Wait a minute. We don’t have to imagine.

Back in 1970 then President Nixon said a very similar thing about another mass murderer, Charles Manson. And he also issued a hasty “clarification.” But that still didn’t prevent the possibility of a mistrial.

From the archives of Time magazine:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vk6j1tEVQd4/SmiEIm5qUpI/AAAAAAAABGA/ga2lC1xqtV4/s400/Manson.gif
Justice: A Bad Week for the Good Guys

Monday August 17, 1970

… It was in Denver’s Federal Building that President Nixon committed the startling gaffe of prejudging the case of Charles Manson. While complaining that the press had made Manson a glamorous hero, Nixon said: "Here was a man who was guilty, directly or indirectly, of eight murders without reason." For a lawyer who occasionally delivers homilies on legal propriety, this was a serious breach.

Attorney General John Mitchell, who was standing at Nixon’s side, instantly recognized Nixon’s error. "This has got to be clarified," he told Presidential Aide John Ehrlichman immediately afterward. Unhappily, what ensued was a series of errors compounded by instant communications. Startled reporters dashed to the pressroom, and within minutes, the bulletins were moving across the land. The statement was filmed and broadcast later on network television, with a clarification appended.

But the damage was already done. It was not until half an hour after Nixon spoke that Press Secretary Ron Ziegler reappeared before the newsmen. After some minutes of verbal fencing, Ziegler agreed that Nixon’s words about Manson should be retracted. When Ziegler told Nixon what had happened, the President was surprised: "I said ‘charged,’ " he replied. During the 3½-hour flight back to Washington, Mitchell persuaded Nixon to put out a statement backing Ziegler up. It read in part: "The last thing I would do is prejudice the legal rights of any person in any circumstances. I do not know and did not intend to speculate as to whether or not the Tate defendants are guilty, in fact, or not." …

In Los Angeles, the effect of Nixon’s remarks on the Manson trial was instant and dramatic. While the Los Angeles Times came out the same afternoon with a four-inch headline reading MANSON GUILTY, NIXON DECLARES, Judge Charles Older went to great lengths to ensure that the jury, which has been sequestered since the trial began, would not learn of Nixon’s remarks. The windows of the jury bus were whited over with Bon Ami so that no juror could glimpse the headline on street newsstands. If the jury discovered Nixon’s verdict, the defense might have grounds for a mistrial. His efforts were to no avail. Next day Manson himself displayed a copy of the Times to the jury for some ten seconds before a bailiff grabbed the newspaper from his hands. Judge Older called a recess, then questioned the jurors one by one to satisfy himself that their judgment would not be affected. An alternate juror convulsed the courtroom when he announced his disclaimer: "I didn’t vote for Nixon in the first place." The judge denied a motion for a mistrial, and the defense lawyers proceeded with cross-examination of the state’s star witness, Linda Kasabian, a former member of the Manson "family." …

Obama Says KSM Will Be “Convicted” | Sweetness & Light

 

[Tousi]

First of all, by what legal mechanism can this guy be tried---back and forth from military to civilian systems?

 

[TWA]

Good luck with finding bona fide evidence against the "plotters."

Fan of "Loose Change" I presume?

 

[Jiro]

In 2006, Obama supported a military trial for KSM:


Context Of Obama’s 2006 KSM Remarks | Sweetness & Light

Is Obama trying to sabotage the trial?


Obama Says KSM Will Be “Convicted” | Sweetness & Light

you know - here's an interesting thing.... prisoner of war? Why is this terrorist a prisoner of war since he's not affiliated with a nation and military? How come our domestic terrorists (unabomber, Eric Rudolph, and Tim McVeigh) were not tried under military tribunal court? a Constitutional scholar, I see not surprising that Obama would pull this kind of interesting stunt.

To recap for ya'all - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the mastermind of 9/11 attacks. He confessed to 1993 WTC Bombing, murder of Daniel Pearl, and several other bombings. He was captured by Pakistan and was immediately given to USA. It was said that the interrogation was performed by Pakistini in a brutal way. Mind you - Pakistan is notorious for its brutal and extremely aggressive interrogation method. His family member including his children were tortured to find him and to make him confess.

mind you - my stance still stand.... NOT IN MY BACKYARD

 

[Chuck]

Yes it should be held in New York, any jury in New York would find them guilty.