Obama Cuts Funding to Democracy Protesters In Iran.

[Jiro]

which there seems to be none of that in Iran

nope nope. NEDA! NEDA! NEDA!

 

[C.C.Sinned]

we take our freedom for granted. while these people are dying and getting the crap beat out of them for it... this really beings freedom and human rights into prospective

 

[jillio]

skyscrapers are not related to political status but of growing modern American idealism.

here's a link for you. that is precisely why I said "you might want to double-check on that"

do you know what constitutional monarchy? It's not the same as absolute monarchy like Kuwait's neighbors. As far as I'm concerned, UK is constitutional monarchy as well.... along with democracy... where there are free speech, human rights, and free election

A country cannot be a monarchy and a democracy at the same time, Jiro.

America isn't the only place in the world where there are skyscrapers.

This supports your claim?

And the unlikely answer being whispered around, both here and in neighboring countries on the Persian Gulf: too much democracy.

Despite those gains, Kuwait has been overshadowed by its dynamic neighbors — Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar — where economies are booming under absolute monarchies.


All this has left many Kuwaitis deeply disenchanted with their 50-member elected legislature. The collapse of the Bush administration’s efforts to promote democracy in the region and the continuing chaos in Iraq, just to the north — once heralded as the birthplace of a new democratic model — have also contributed to a popular suspicion that democracy itself is one Western import that has not lived up to its advertising.

Sorry, but this doesn't support your claim at all. Next time, try finding something other than a newspaper article.

And, yes, I know what a constitutional monarchy is.

 

[jillio]

we take our freedom for granted. while these people are dying and getting the crap beat out of them for it... this really beings freedom and human rights into prospective

Unfortunately, forced cultural change never works.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Unfortunately, forced cultural change never works.

that doesn't mean they should quit trying.

 

[jillio]

that doesn't mean they should quit trying.

Agreed. But it is an incremental change accomplished through contact, not force.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Agreed. But it is an incremental change accomplished through contact, not force.

the force is comming from the oppressors. the protesters are trying to make contact they don't want to be oppressed

 

[Jiro]

A country cannot be a monarchy and a democracy at the same time, Jiro.

um...... yes it can - hence constitutional monarchy. Like I said - it's not the same as absolute monarchy. Since you're at university, why don't you email political science professor?

America isn't the only place in the world where there are skyscrapers.

right........... and the other countries are copying us - the skyscrapers. Do you see any other nations copying British's Big Ben style or Greek's Parthenon style or India's Taj Mahal style?

This supports your claim?

And the unlikely answer being whispered around, both here and in neighboring countries on the Persian Gulf: too much democracy.

Despite those gains, Kuwait has been overshadowed by its dynamic neighbors — Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar — where economies are booming under absolute monarchies.


All this has left many Kuwaitis deeply disenchanted with their 50-member elected legislature. The collapse of the Bush administration’s efforts to promote democracy in the region and the continuing chaos in Iraq, just to the north — once heralded as the birthplace of a new democratic model — have also contributed to a popular suspicion that democracy itself is one Western import that has not lived up to its advertising.

Sorry, but this doesn't support your claim at all. Next time, try finding something other than a newspaper article.

nice try, Jillio. You missed out the major portion of the story. and they have a long way to go just like America in 1776. You should know that it's not an overnite thing.

The current political malaise is especially striking because most Kuwaitis take pride in their nation’s relatively democratic traditions. The ruling Sabah family acquired its position not through conquest, but with an agreement among the coastal traders of the region in the mid-18th century. After Kuwait gained independence from the British in 1961, the emir approved a written Constitution that sharply limited his power in relation to Parliament.
.......
And while there have been setbacks — the royal family suspended Parliament in the late 1970s and again in the late 1980s — Kuwait has grown steadily more democratic. Two years ago, popular pressure forced a change in the electoral districting law, making it harder to buy votes. Women gained the right to vote and run in elections (though none have won seats). In mid-April, Kuwaiti democrats won yet another battle after the government tried to pass a law restricting public gatherings. There were popular demonstrations against the proposal, and the government backed down.
........
“There are people who want to say, Look at democracy, look at what it causes,’ ” said Nawaf al-Mutairi, a business student. “But we know democracy is our last hope. The problem is just that democracy is incremental.”

Like I said - it's a diamond in the rough. Give it some time.... it will be smoother and brighter.

in short - I just proved to you that Kuwait does have democracy.

 

[Foxrac]

I'm personally want Iran to be under constitutional monarchy, known as new shah with full freedom and democracy as shah wouldn't have much power, unlike in prior to 1979 or under republic state, known as Republic of Iran with secularism, separate in government and church with president, vice president or prime minister, also both of them still need respect people who want believe in Islam, known as religious freedom, including wear hijab at public area is fine.

Iran has minority that's non-muslim and supreme leader did treat them so unfair, treat as 2nd class and I wouldn't want visit Iran until supreme leader get out of power, even Iran is used to have sizable of Jewish community in prior to 1979.

I'm very bitter at Iran for kill couple of gay teenagers, screw on supreme leader.

I don't have problem with Islam if they don't interfere with people who isn't believe in Islam.

 

[Jiro]

I'm personally want Iran to be under constitutional monarchy, known as new shah with full freedom and democracy as shah wouldn't have much power, unlike in prior to 1979 or under republic state, known as Republic of Iran with secularism, separate in government and church with president, vice president or prime minister, also both of them still need respect people who want believe in Islam, known as religious freedom, including wear hijab at public area is fine.

Iran has minority that's non-muslim and supreme leader did treat them so unfair, treat as 2nd class and I wouldn't want visit Iran until supreme leader get out of power, even Iran is used to have sizable of Jewish community in prior to 1979.

I'm very bitter at Iran for kill couple of gay teenagers, screw on supreme leader.

I don't have problem with Islam if they don't interfere with people who isn't believe in Islam.

yep. that's entirely up to Iranians to choose whatever the government type they want....... as long as there are some form of "free speech, free election, and human rights" (and no anti-American hostility )

 

[jillio]

the force is comming from the oppressors. the protesters are trying to make contact they don't want to be oppressed

Well, I suppose that is one perspective. However, culture does not change to fit a government. Government changes to fit the needs of changing culture. It happens over time, and incrementally.

By contact, I mean contact with other cultures. That is the only way that lasting and effective change occurs within cultures.

 

[Daredevel7]

Okay so....

For those who are all for american intervention for Iran. What exactly do you want us to do? Forcibly choose a leader for them? Force them to have a re-election? (what if he wins again?) Take over the election duties? What?

 

[C.C.Sinned]

I find it ironic Obama quoted MLK

“Martin Luther King once said, ‘The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice,’ ” Mr. Obama

source
i find it ironic because MLK didn't backdown from oppressors to fight for freedom and rights. he didn't use violence and never chickened out. I don't think obama is making MLK proud now...

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Well, I suppose that is one perspective. However, culture does not change to fit a government. Government changes to fit the needs of changing culture. It happens over time, and incrementally.

By contact, I mean contact with other cultures. That is the only way that lasting and effective change occurs within cultures.

it has been happening. it is just a long winding road to freedom

 

[jillio]

um...... yes it can - hence constitutional monarchy. Like I said - it's not the same as absolute monarchy. Since you're at university, why don't you email political science professor?
Unbeknownst to you, I share an office with a cultural anthropoligist, and the political science professor is next door. I have already discussed the Iranian situation with them in depth. As well as with an Iranian math professor. But since you work at a university, perhaps you could consult with some of the professors on your campus. And a constitutional monarchy is not a democracy. If it were, it would be called a democracy. Nor is it an absolute monarchy. Hence the label of constitutional monarchy. If it were a democratic monarchy it would be labeled as such. Monarchy does not fit into the concept of democracy at all.

right........... and the other countries are copying us - the skyscrapers. Do you see any other nations copying British's Big Ben style or Greek's Parthenon style or India's Taj Mahal style?

What exactly does that have to do with political rule? We aren't talking about architecture. Stop confusing the two.
nice try, Jillio. You missed out the major portion of the story. and they have a long way to go just like America in 1776. You should know that it's not an overnite thing.

No, I didn't miss the majority of the artice. I read the whole thing. And it does not support your claim that Kuwait is a democracy.
The current political malaise is especially striking because most Kuwaitis take pride in their nation’s relatively democratic traditions. The ruling Sabah family acquired its position not through conquest, but with an agreement among the coastal traders of the region in the mid-18th century. After Kuwait gained independence from the British in 1961, the emir approved a written Constitution that sharply limited his power in relation to Parliament.

Do you understand the qualification of the word "relative"?
.......
And while there have been setbacks — the royal family suspended Parliament in the late 1970s and again in the late 1980s — Kuwait has grown steadily more democratic. Two years ago, popular pressure forced a change in the electoral districting law, making it harder to buy votes. Women gained the right to vote and run in elections (though none have won seats). In mid-April, Kuwaiti democrats won yet another battle after the government tried to pass a law restricting public gatherings. There were popular demonstrations against the proposal, and the government backed down.

Growing more democratic does not mean that they are a democratic government.
........
“There are people who want to say, Look at democracy, look at what it causes,’ ” said Nawaf al-Mutairi, a business student. “But we know democracy is our last hope. The problem is just that democracy is incremental.”

Exactly. And they have not gotten there yet. They are still a constitutional monarchy.

Like I said - it's a diamond in the rough. Give it some time.... it will be smoother and brighter.

in short - I just proved to you that Kuwait does have democracy.

You have proven nothing of the kind.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Okay so....

For those who are all for american intervention for Iran. What exactly do you want us to do? Forcibly choose a leader for them? Force them to have a re-election? (what if he wins again?) Take over the election duties? What?

he shouldn't have cut funding.

stand for freedom obama, stand for freedom

 

[jillio]

I find it ironic Obama quoted MLK
source
i find it ironic because MLK didn't backdown from oppressors to fight for freedom and rights. he didn't use violence and never chickened out. I don't think obama is making MLK proud now...

MLK's entire platform was based on peaceful change.

 

[Jiro]

Okay so....

For those who are all for american intervention for Iran. What exactly do you want us to do? Forcibly choose a leader for them? Force them to have a re-election? (what if he wins again?) Take over the election duties? What?

not at all. we will continue to speak out and assist/educate those Iranians who want to learn more about democracy. We will speak loud against their tyranny and violent handling of peaceful protests/rally.

 

[jillio]

he shouldn't have cut funding.

stand for freedom obama, stand for freedom

Obama only represents the U.S. He has no authority to stand for the political process of another country. Iran's difficulties are internal.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

skyscrapers are phallic symbols