Start with spoken language or ASL?

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Jiro said:
One more thing - look at some girls with all 5 functional senses. She yaps away on her cell phone, communicates by saying "like" on every few other words... takes probably 5 min to explain her simple message while it would takes an intelligent person 10 seconds to explain the same thing. That's why your reasoning is flawed. As long as you can read (aka learn) (either by braille or reading or hearing), you are intelligent. Intelligence or IQ does not fundamentally require hearing.
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Jiro, you're attacking something thats not there. No one said that you need hearing to be smarter. In fact, no one said anything about hearing at ALL.
 
Jiro said:
One more thing - look at some girls with all 5 functional senses. She yaps away on her cell phone, communicates by saying "like" on every few other words... takes probably 5 min to explain her simple message while it would takes an intelligent person 10 seconds to explain the same thing. That's why your reasoning is flawed. As long as you can read (aka learn) (either by braille or reading or hearing), you are intelligent. Intelligence or IQ does not fundamentally require hearing.
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That girl just exaggerate. Doesn't mean she's dumb. Unless you're saying that anyone with boobs are dumb. Including jillio?! HAHAHA. I'm so bashful.
 
shel90 said:
Let's say that with some deaf children who have been exposed to spoken language only as the wait and see approach do not pick up on it, by the age of 3 or 4,their language level is at the 18 month old rage. Then they r finally exposed to ASL at 4, they have to start from stratch and by the time they are fluent, they could be 7 or 8 years old and then they are ready to learn how to read and write but have to start with kindergarten or 1st grade writing because one can't expect to read at 3rd grade level as soon as their language development has been established to a strong first language so that delays them even further.
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I was exposed to the spoken language first and managed to come out fine. My reading level was a few grades AHEAD of my hearing counterparts. However its just me and I was gifted, identified as a child prodigy.

I would have LOST the opportunities I had if I grew up in an ASL-dominated environment. What works for one student, doesn't always work for the another student.

That is the problem with deaf education nowadays, everybody's looking for one thing that works for all deaf children. There will never be a set norm for deaf education, just as there isn't a norm for "hearing education." The best thing is to find what fits that child's needs and going from there.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Jiro, you're attacking something thats not there. No one said that you need hearing to be smarter. In fact, no one said anything about hearing at ALL.
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My apology - a further clarification. I put "speaking" together with "hearing."
 
doofenslim said:
I was exposed to the spoken language first and managed to come out fine. My reading level was a few grades AHEAD of my hearing counterparts. However its just me and I was gifted, identified as a child prodigy.

I would have LOST the opportunities I had if I grew up in an ASL-dominated environment. What works for one student, doesn't always work for the another student.

That is the problem with deaf education nowadays, everybody's looking for one thing that works for all deaf children. There will never be a set norm for deaf education, just as there isn't a norm for "hearing education." The best thing is to find what fits that child's needs and going from there.
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A genius, but bored with what was given.

Been there, done that, seen it all.
 
doofenslim said:
I was exposed to the spoken language first and managed to come out fine. My reading level was a few grades AHEAD of my hearing counterparts. However its just me and I was gifted, identified as a child prodigy.

I would have LOST the opportunities I had if I grew up in an ASL-dominated environment. What works for one student, doesn't always work for the another student.

That is the problem with deaf education nowadays, everybody's looking for one thing that works for all deaf children. There will never be a set norm for deaf education, just as there isn't a norm for "hearing education." The best thing is to find what fits that child's needs and going from there.
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I strongly agree with this! That's why I feel people need to put more thought in their own child before spurting out random reasons why ASL or spoken English or Klingon rocks. When I see people saying that they are deaf so therefore they KNOW that ASL is much better, it bothers me because I feel that I got the best education/progression as I could because my mom got information from several sources from different perspectives AND tested my abilities and THEN made the best decision. Thanks, Mom! :)
 
Daredevel7 said:
I strongly agree with this! That's why I feel people need to put more thought in their own child before spurting out random reasons why ASL or spoken English or Klingon rocks. When I see people saying that they are deaf so therefore they KNOW that ASL is much better, it bothers me because I feel that I got the best education/progression as I could because my mom got information from several sources from different perspectives AND tested my abilities and THEN made the best decision. Thanks, Mom! :)
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Mothers are indeed the best.

Klingon!!! ARG! That's a culture.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
That girl just exaggerate. Doesn't mean she's dumb. Unless you're saying that anyone with boobs are dumb. Including jillio?! HAHAHA. I'm so bashful.
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:naughty:
 
doofenslim said:
I was exposed to the spoken language first and managed to come out fine. My reading level was a few grades AHEAD of my hearing counterparts. However its just me and I was gifted, identified as a child prodigy.

I would have LOST the opportunities I had if I grew up in an ASL-dominated environment. What works for one student, doesn't always work for the another student.

That is the problem with deaf education nowadays, everybody's looking for one thing that works for all deaf children. There will never be a set norm for deaf education, just as there isn't a norm for "hearing education." The best thing is to find what fits that child's needs and going from there.
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Thank u, Doofenslim, that is exactly what I am trying to say too (and what Daredevel is tryin to say too). my reading skills were always ahead too! Thanks to me being exposed to spoken language since birth and beginning speech therapy by age 1, I was never behind in school. Some doctors told my parents that i would never make it past 3rd grade and would only do ASL. my parents told the doc to go screw himself (in a polite way of course, lol). and guess what? im 100% oral and not only did i make it past grade 3, but i graduated college! HA!
i KNOW that had i been in an ASL only world, i would have been cut off and i would have LOST all opportunities i had.

what worked for me may not be the best for another deaf child. There is not ONE solution as to what is the best language method for a kid. THIS is why i think learning to be oral should be strongly encouraged too.
 
sirena rossa said:
Thank u, Doofenslim, that is exactly what I am trying to say too (and what Daredevel is tryin to say too). my reading skills were always ahead too! Thanks to me being exposed to spoken language since birth and beginning speech therapy by age 1, I was never behind in school. Some doctors told my parents that i would never make it past 3rd grade and would only do ASL. my parents told the doc to go screw himself (in a polite way of course, lol). and guess what? im 100% oral and not only did i make it past grade 3, but i graduated college! HA!
i KNOW that had i been in an ASL only world, i would have been cut off and i would have LOST all opportunities i had.

what worked for me may not be the best for another deaf child. There is not ONE solution as to what is the best language method for a kid. THIS is why i think learning to be oral should be strongly encouraged too.
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Sticking with one thing is never great. That's why in nature - diversity survives better. As for deaf person - ASL + English + Oral makes a nice well-round deaf person
 
Jiro said:
Sticking with one thing is never great. That's why in nature - diversity survives better. As for deaf person - ASL + English + Oral makes a nice well-round deaf person
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Quite a perspective, Jiro, but what about a blind person? ASL + ENGLISH + ORAL + BRAILLE makes a what?

Wolf, like me? Hahaha.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
Quite a perspective, Jiro, but what about a blind person? ASL + ENGLISH + ORAL + BRAILLE makes a what?

Wolf, like me? Hahaha.
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not english. A blind can't read or write english LOL
 
Jiro said:
Sticking with one thing is never great. That's why in nature - diversity survives better. As for deaf person - ASL + English + Oral makes a nice well-round deaf person
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I would have to agree with that. Dont' forget it's a predominatly hearing society. If you wish to assimilate then you have to be able to read and write and/or speak. Otherwise you are isolating yourself.
 
Jiro said:
Sticking with one thing is never great. That's why in nature - diversity survives better. As for deaf person - ASL + English + Oral makes a nice well-round deaf person
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This takes us back to the original question. Do you think that deaf children learning ASL + Oral at the same time is the optimal in terms of progression in writing/literacy/speech skills? I feel that learning to speak English and sign language at the exact same time will cause deaf children to rely on sign language more since its easier, especially if they are surrounded by other deaf children. So it's quite not 50/50. The question is... what should be the primary?
 
Daredevel7 said:
This takes us back to the original question. Do you think that deaf children learning ASL + Oral at the same time is the optimal in terms of progression in writing/literacy/speech skills? I feel that learning to speak English and sign language at the exact same time will cause deaf children to rely on sign language more since its easier, especially if they are surrounded by other deaf children. So it's quite not 50/50. The question is... what should be the primary?
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The speaking language, how otherwise is the person gonna persuade a person that it's love at first sight. I'm sure that in sign language it takes time to draw up a "picture", while in spoken language, you can simply sing, talk in poem, and with the right tone of your voice, it can make one close their eyes and never stop listening to that beautiful voice, the persuading voice that took the heart away.
 
rockdrummer said:
I would have to agree with that. Dont' forget it's a predominatly hearing society. If you wish to assimilate then you have to be able to read and write and/or speak. Otherwise you are isolating yourself.
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EXACTLY! its predominately hearing, so therefore, in general circumstances, its best to have the child start with spoken language. Since that is probably the most challenging. My philosophy is meet the strongest challenge head on! And then implement ASL into their learning. then viola! they got the best of both worlds :) the worst thing u can do to a child is isolate them.
 
Daredevel7 said:
This takes us back to the original question. Do you think that deaf children learning ASL + Oral at the same time is the optimal in terms of progression in writing/literacy/speech skills? I feel that learning to speak English and sign language at the exact same time will cause deaf children to rely on sign language more since its easier, especially if they are surrounded by other deaf children. So it's quite not 50/50. The question is... what should be the primary?
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without a doubt, oral should be the primary.
 
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