Start with spoken language or ASL?

[Daredevel7]

No, it doesn't prove your point at all. Speaking is a a productive function of language. Comprehension is a receptive function. And just being able to comprehend what is spoken on a receptive level is not indcative of superior intelligence. A parrot is able to mimic English. Does that mean they have intelligence equal to humans?
Example: Someone who understands the sentence, "It is time for you to sit down." via spoken language.

Someone who understands the principles of Quantum physics, and can engage in a lengthy and detailed discussion of such via ASL.

All a parrot can do is mimic. Not actually comprehend. Sorry but thats a poor example. But even on the subject of animals.... higher IQ in animals shows better understanding of humans. The only reason why they don't speak "human" is because of a lack of vocal chords. However, I digress..

Speaking babble is a manipulation of vocal cords. Speaking ideas, words, sentences requires not ONLY the innate ability to form language as you said, but ALSO being able to use and remember your speech therapy training, and keeping up with it. What does a deaf child need in order to gain the most out of speech therapy? I KNOW personally some deaf children do not succeed at all with speech thereapy. Why?

 

[imdeafsowhat]

Obviously, your lack of IQ prevents you from understanding what one is.

HEY, just because I went to look for a WHITE person doesn't mean I'm dumb. I just learned that the parrot is not great to be my pet, so I ate it up.

 

[jillio]

All a parrot can do is mimic. Not actually comprehend. Sorry but thats a poor example. But even on the subject of animals.... higher IQ in animals shows better understanding of humans. The only reason why they don't speak "human" is because of a lack of vocal chords. However, I digress..

Speaking babble is a manipulation of vocal cords. Speaking ideas, words, sentences requires not ONLY the innate ability to form language as you said, but ALSO being able to use and remember your speech therapy training, and keeping up with it. What does a deaf child need in order to gain the most out of speech therapy? I KNOW personally some deaf children do not succeed at all with speech thereapy. Why?

No, communicating those ideas requires intelligence. Communication of complex ideas can be achieved by means other than speaking.

Are you insinuating that deaf children who are not successful with speech therapy are less intelligent than those who are?

 

[imdeafsowhat]

All a parrot can do is mimic. Not actually comprehend. Sorry but thats a poor example. But even on the subject of animals.... higher IQ in animals shows better understanding of humans. The only reason why they don't speak "human" is because of a lack of vocal chords. However, I digress..

Speaking babble is a manipulation of vocal cords. Speaking ideas, words, sentences requires not ONLY the innate ability to form language as you said, but ALSO being able to use and remember your speech therapy training, and keeping up with it. What does a deaf child need in order to gain the most out of speech therapy? I KNOW personally some deaf children do not succeed at all with speech thereapy. Why?

Low IQ.

No Wolf.

What does a child need? A voice to mimic and a teacher to teach what that word means and how you can use it.

What, indeed. That was my opinion, not a fact. But I think it's really based on IQ and Wolf.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

No, communicating those ideas requires intelligence. Communication of comples ideas can be achieved by means other than speaking.

Are you insinuating that deaf children who are not successful with speech therapy are less intelligent than those who do?

I wanna answer that question.

It's from me, not that guy who said those things.


Yes.

When compared to me, I'm feeling that I can understand more and better than that unsucessful child because I understand the spoken/written language as well as any sign language, not the fingerspelling in different language, but I can understand if I was shown a body language.

 

[jillio]

Low IQ.

No Wolf.

What does a child need? A voice to mimic and a teacher to teach what that word means and how you can use it.

What, indeed. That was my opinion, not a fact. But I think it's really based on IQ and Wolf.

When a child acquires language in a natural mode, they do not have to be taught what the meaning of a word is. They intuit it through having internalized the functions of language.

 

[jillio]

I wanna answer that question.

It's from me, not that guy who said those things.


Yes.

When compared to me, I'm feeling that I can understand more and better than that unsucessful child because I understand the spoken/written language as well as any sign language, not the fingerspelling in different language, but I can understand if I was shown a body language.

Then you are not only sadly mistaken, you are also bigotted.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

When a child acquires language in a natural mode, they do not have to be taught what the meaning of a word is. They intuit it through having internalized the functions of language.

What grade are you speaking of?

I started to understand that you can find the meaning of the words by rephrasing it in a sentence in 3rd grade.

I started to speak the language when I was in preschool. Different things at a different time.

 

[jillio]

What grade are you speaking of?

I started to understand that you can find the meaning of the words by rephrasing it in a sentence in 3rd grade.

I started to speak the language when I was in preschool. Different things at a different time.

Well, if you didn't get started until 3rd grade, you were about 9 years behind schedule.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

Then you are not only sadly mistaken, you are also bigotted.

At least I succeed where you have not. That's in bed. HAHAHA. I tease.


There are no mistakes, only do and don'ts.

There are no rights, only opinions and perspectives.

Bigot, I know a guy name Bigot and he was no fool.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

Well, if you didn't get started until 3rd grade, you were about 9 years behind schedule.

I was only 7 years old at that time and to add up the math, wait, that don't add up. Wtf are you doing, jillio, you don't know me!

Well you do know that I'm a wolf with no IQ.

 

[jillio]

At least I succeed where you have not. That's in bed. HAHAHA. I tease.


There are no mistakes, only do and don'ts.

And if one does a don't, what does that make it but a mistake?

There are no rights, only opinions and perspectives.

You are sadly disillusioned.

Bigot, I know a guy name Bigot and he was no fool.

Then the latter protion of that sentence would not apply to you.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

A lesson if one did a don't.

You aren't right, and that's your perspective.

Bigot had a dog and the dog said

ARROOO!!!

Protion isn't a word, at least I don't think so. Portion is.

Nothing applies to me but I applied to everything because I chose this.

 

[sirena rossa]

IQ is not related to the innate ability that all humans have to acquire language, nor is language use necessarily connected in any way to IQ.

i'm sorry but u are very wrong on that. IQ ABSOLUTELY has A LOT to do with learning. IQ and learning a language are definitley connected in some way. Earlier posts have mentioned how the sense of sight (naturally) becomes stronger since the sense of hearing is lacking - as someone who relies a lot on lip reading (and as a professional photographer, haha) i must agree with this, i do believe that sense of sight does become "enhanced" to compensate. However! we are all forgetting the most important organ involved in hearing (i.e. HEARING AS IN UNDERSTANDING) and that would be the BRAIN! the immediate sense associated with hearing/seeing/understanding would be eyes & ears. But the thing is, the ROOT of all these senses is neurological. it goes much deeper than just using ur eyes & ears to understand what is being said.
I was very lucky and had an "unconventional" speech therapist, she CHALLENGED my brain. her methods and teachings forced me to USE the hearing I had. A baby's brain is like wet clay, u must make it WORK. and the sooner this is done, the better.

 

[sirena rossa]

No, it doesn't prove your point at all. Speaking is a a productive function of language. Comprehension is a receptive function. And just being able to comprehend what is spoken on a receptive level is not indcative of superior intelligence. A parrot is able to mimic English. Does that mean they have intelligence equal to humans?
Example: Someone who understands the sentence, "It is time for you to sit down." via spoken language.

Someone who understands the principles of Quantum physics, and can engage in a lengthy and detailed discussion of such via ASL.

a parrot is really poor example... u cannot compare a bird to a human. there is no logic in that comparison.
In order to be able to speak -and have it make sense - one needs to be able to comprehend what is being spoken. Regarding HUMANS, productive functions & receptive functions go hand-in-hand. How well and how quickly that skill is acquired IS indeed related on one's brain and intelligence.

 

[Daredevel7]

No, communicating those ideas requires intelligence. Communication of complex ideas can be achieved by means other than speaking.

Are you insinuating that deaf children who are not successful with speech therapy are less intelligent than those who are?

I realize that I may be adding to the stereotype that better speech = higher intelligence. I don't mean to do that. There are too many factors that affect this, and it would be ignorant for someone to automatically assume if a deaf person does not speak well, it must mean they are dumb. However, I do believe that intelligence does play in a factor in speech. For example: take 2 deaf children from the same hearing parents, and they both are being taught by the same speech therapist. They both have been tested for any underlying problems such as ADD, learning disability, etc and showed negative. One sibling does better than the other. Why? The same reason why some kids do better in school than others! Of course this is all generally speaking. Just because a kid does bad in school does not mean he isn't smart, but this is a special case, and does not happen MAJORITY of the time.

 

[Jiro]

So you DO agree that IQ contributes to the ability to comprehend what is spoken? This proves my point. Why would you not be able to speak if you can comprehend what is being spoken? That's like saying "I understand ASL perfectly, but I can't do ASL."

i'm sorry but u are very wrong on that. IQ ABSOLUTELY has A LOT to do with learning. IQ and learning a language are definitley connected in some way. Earlier posts have mentioned how the sense of sight (naturally) becomes stronger since the sense of hearing is lacking - as someone who relies a lot on lip reading (and as a professional photographer, haha) i must agree with this, i do believe that sense of sight does become "enhanced" to compensate. However! we are all forgetting the most important organ involved in hearing (i.e. HEARING AS IN UNDERSTANDING) and that would be the BRAIN! the immediate sense associated with hearing/seeing/understanding would be eyes & ears. But the thing is, the ROOT of all these senses is neurological. it goes much deeper than just using ur eyes & ears to understand what is being said.
I was very lucky and had an "unconventional" speech therapist, she CHALLENGED my brain. her methods and teachings forced me to USE the hearing I had. A baby's brain is like wet clay, u must make it WORK. and the sooner this is done, the better.

You clearly misunderstood Jillio's posts. Based on what you're saying.. are you saying that this homeless raggy-ass rambling bum on the street across me have a high IQ just because he can talk and learn some new words in foreign language? He knows where to find the food and material that he needs in order to survive spring/summer/fall/winter. Does that mean he has high IQ as well?

This is outlandish. What you're saying is basically that in order to obtain higher IQ, you need hearing. An intelligent deaf person can communicate his knowledge/intelligence via sign language or writing or computer. Look at Stephan Hawkins. He's obviously a genius and he communicated his extensive knowledge through a computer by moving his friggin' eyebrows and tongue!!

IQ is simply a measure of how fast your brain processing is. So IQ is irrelevant to this issue. IQ is simply a measurement for court to judge if you're mentally competent or not. It is simply a measurement for school to judge if you're mentally retarded or not. We should be talking about intelligence on how the person comprehends and conveys the material by any means (verbally, literary, etc). You could have an IQ of 110 and still understand Quantum Mechanics.... but the difference is - you'll just learn it slower than the genius.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

You clearly misunderstood Jillio's posts. Based on what you're saying.. are you saying that this homeless raggy-ass rambling bum on the street across me have a high IQ just because he can talk and learn some new words in foreign language? He knows where to find the food and material that he needs in order to survive spring/summer/fall/winter. Does that mean he has high IQ as well?

This is outlandish. What you're saying is basically that in order to obtain higher IQ, you need hearing. An intelligent deaf person can communicate his knowledge/intelligence via sign language or writing or computer. Look at Stephan Hawkins. He's obviously a genius and he communicated his extensive knowledge through a computer by moving his friggin' eyebrows and tongue!!

IQ is simply a measure of how fast your brain processing is. So IQ is irrelevant to this issue. IQ is simply a measurement for court to judge if you're mentally competent or not. It is simply a measurement for school to judge if you're mentally retarded or not. We should be talking about intelligence on how the person comprehends and conveys the material by any means (verbally, literary, etc). You could have an IQ of 110 and still understand Quantum Mechanics.... but the difference is - you'll just learn it slower than the genius.

Depends on the homeless. I know few people who's a working man dresses up as a homeless just to earn more money. It's his mind that gives him ideas.

THERE! Stephen Hawkins, the cripple genius of 200 IQ. I was thinking of superman Chris. hahaha. Hey, I'm a wolf and I still think I'm smarter than him. Hahaha.

IQ is indeed a measurement, but it also shows how strong your, as I quote jillio, "process" is and Wolf is based on your reaction.

PS, if you missed few posts, I implied that Common Sense is Wolf.

 

[Daredevel7]

You clearly misunderstood Jillio's posts. Based on what you're saying.. are you saying that this homeless raggy-ass rambling bum on the street across me have a high IQ just because he can talk and learn some new words in foreign language? He knows where to find the food and material that he needs in order to survive spring/summer/fall/winter. Does that mean he has high IQ as well?

This is outlandish. What you're saying is basically that in order to obtain higher IQ, you need hearing. An intelligent deaf person can communicate his knowledge/intelligence via sign language or writing or computer. Look at Stephan Hawkins. He's obviously a genius and he communicated his extensive knowledge through a computer by moving his friggin' eyebrows and tongue!!

IQ is simply a measure of how fast your brain processing is. So IQ is irrelevant to this issue. IQ is simply a measurement for court to judge if you're mentally competent or not. It is simply a measurement for school to judge if you're mentally retarded or not. We should be talking about intelligence on how the person comprehends and conveys the material by any means (verbally, literary, etc). You could have an IQ of 110 and still understand Quantum Mechanics.... but the difference is - you'll just learn it slower than the genius.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know where you got the bold statement above from. I completely utterly disagree with that. I'm not even gonna argue against that because.... it's kind of atrocious.

As for the homeless man, yes I would say he has AT LEAST good IQ and low common sense. Simple. Anyway, I feel as I argue more about this, the more snobby I sound. I was simply stating that intelligence is ONE of the factors for development of good speech (and ASL, and SEE, and ANYTHING that requires learning!)

 

[Jiro]

One more thing - look at some girls with all 5 functional senses. She yaps away on her cell phone, communicates by saying "like" on every few other words... takes probably 5 min to explain her simple message while it would takes an intelligent person 10 seconds to explain the same thing. That's why your reasoning is flawed. As long as you can read (aka learn) (either by braille or reading or hearing), you are intelligent. Intelligence or IQ does not fundamentally require hearing.