Why the World Hates the US?

[Reba]

Yes I know why Americans got bases here in Germany, so?

All what I say that they are here in Germany to defend our countries against enemies, not go to attack enemy's countries..

Wrong answer.

 

[Brian]

I may be wrong, but I believe the reason we have bases in Germany is to keep Germans at bay - they were invading other countries for apparently no reasons.

My father was a Military Police officer based in Germany.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Wrong answer.

Whatever :roll:

 

[Jiro]

Whatever :roll:

but.... both Reba and Brian are right

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No....we are in Germany to make sure that the Germans don't invade other countries like they did in WWI and WWII.

At beginning yes during and after WWII, but no more at long time ago.

No, Germany was not responsible fully alone for WWI but WWII.

Without US and European Army, Germany and other Europe countries would of become communist country. They defend against communist countries for tempt to invade Germany and Europe countries.

We will never leave Germany, Japan, Guam, Wake Island, South Korea among other places.

Don't say "Never" ...because you never know...

That's time, we have some communist countries around, we have many US and British Army casernes around in Germany to watch communist countries until no more communist, so the many casernes were being closed down since after Berlin Wall pulled down... After Berlin Wall pulled down and also Russia as well, US and British Government consider to close all US and British Army casernes which would risk unemployment... German and US Government agrees to save some US Army casernes in Germany and consider it as NATO. German and US Government work together well. German & US soliders work together and help each other... German soliders come to watch US Army caserne where I work while US soliders went to Gulf War, Bosian War and Iraq War. US soliders also watch German Army casernes, East German custom (communist at that's time). Now Terrorists... they are here to defend against terrorists.

I say, let's build an American military base in Iraq.

Can you explain me why it's necassary to build US Army casernes in Iraq or Africa?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

but.... both Reba and Brian are right

Whatever; You can say and beleive what you want...

 

[Jiro]

Whatever; You can say and beleive what you want...

you mean.... you want to believe that American bases are in Germany as anti-communism strategic moves? You just admitted the fact that we're here in Germany to prevent them from causing another war. That is the original reason and fact of why Germany has American bases. So no, we didn't "say it and believe what we want." We WITNESSED it.... TWICE. However - I'm sure the world is very glad that Germany will never be an aggressor again.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

you mean.... you want to believe that American bases are in Germany as anti-communism strategic moves?

Huh?

Of course Germany and other Europe countries do not want communism. We are glad to have US and some EU soliders to stop them for invade non-communism countries. What's problem?

You just admitted the fact that we're here in Germany to prevent them from causing another war.

I do not see anything that I deny the fact because I repeated many times that troops are here in Germany to defend against emeny countries. Reba said that I am wrong which mean she think US Army control Germans, not other countries then is her opinion. I know WWI and WWII history but they are very old. US Army casernes are here in Germany to defend against enemy countries... (no more communists, Gulf War.... Bosian War (US, German & British soliders went to help victims against enemies)

That is the original reason and fact of why Germany has American bases.

Yes I already answered Reba in my previous post... "Yes I know why Americans got bases here in Germany, so?"... This is very old... because they do not control Germans for invade other countries anymore at long time ago... but defend enemy countries for try to invade Germany.

So no, we didn't "say it and believe what we want."

Because you give Reba right and beleive it's fact... I do not expect you to give me right... It's up to you either you agree or disagree with me...

We WITNESSED it.... TWICE.

Twice what?

I know what I am saying because I know those history since I work for US Army caserne for long time and WITNESSED them during Gulf War, Bosian War, Iraq, terrorist,.........

However - I'm sure the world is very glad that Germany will never be an aggressor again.

There're never being war because German refused to have other WWIII... and also war. Oh yes, US Government knew it because German government urged US Government to not attack Iraq. What and how German did belongs the past but the history about them remain forever. The world know that Germany never want to attack other countries for war but defense... It's time for you to consider Bush because what and how Bush did is at present time... The world consider Bush as an aggressor.

 

[Reba]

I am sorry that you feel like this but you have to face sometimes when the people feel want to rant/vent out which is good for them to get out of their chest. I am sorry if you don't like it but you has to face sometimes when there're negative rant/vent. It's not just civilians but soliders as well.

I have no problem with military people venting about their situation. My problem is with civilian people who claim that they "support" the military but really don't. That's what I'm talking about.

It's your decision for want to join military, not their. I'm sorry what and how you feel... If they look down on you in negative way because you are a woman then is their loss and ignorance. I know many men look down on women at our old times which different at present time. Many women are acceptance to join Navy, military, builder, electricial, etc as equal as men at present time than our old times.

You totally missed the point.

I don't care what those people said to or about me. That's not the point. The point is, this so-called "support" that civilians claim to give military people is the same heap of baloney now that they dished out during the Vietnam war. They say that they respect and support military people while at the same time looking down their noses and criticizing what the military people do.

Why should it make people's life more depressing when they are happy to get their dream wish fulfilling?

What on earth are you talking about? What dream wish?

Of course it's depressing for a soldier to hear civilians say that their service is wrong, that the war is wrong, that the mission is wrong; that's not a "dream wish"--that's a nightmare. Soldiers' lives are hard enough; they don't need constant criticism and bashing on top of that.

 

[Reba]

Whatever :roll:

No, it's not "whatever." Accurate knowledge of history and politics is important, not "whatever."

 

[Reba]

I do not see anything that I deny the fact because I repeated many times that troops are here in Germany to defend against emeny countries.

Do you remember when the American troops arrived in Germany? It was during WWII. Do you remember why they arrive in Germany? It was to defeat the German army. Do you remember why the American and Allied troops stayed in Germany? It was to capture and try the Nazis and German military leaders, and to set up a new government. Who controlled that new government? The Allies, under American General Eisenhower. Eventually, the Germans were allowed to govern themselves again.

Did the Germans invite the Americans? No. Who decided that the American military could stay? The Germans? No. The Americans decided to stay, and the Germans could not refuse.

American and Allied presence did deter some Soviet ambitions but that was not the initial reason for American occupation.

Has it occurred to you that the Berlin Wall is down, and aggressive communism from Soviets against Germans is over? Then why are the Americans still in Germany?

America has bases in Germany and Japan because America won and they lost. That's it. Have you noticed that America doesn't allow any German or Japanese bases in America? Think about it.

Reba said that I am wrong which mean she think US Army control Germans, not other countries then is her opinion.

I didn't say that the US Army now controls Germans. The US Army has the right to establish and maintain bases in Germany because America and the Allies defeated Germany in WWII. The Germans didn't invite the Americans in. The Americans forced their way in, and got bases as part of the conditions of Germany's surrender. The mission of the American military was not to defend Germany; it was to disarm, judge, punish, restore order, and re-construct Germany, under Allied terms, not German terms.

I know WWI and WWII history but they are very old.

You might think that history is very old and done with, but the conditions continue on into the present and future.

US Army casernes are here in Germany to defend against enemy countries... (no more communists, Gulf War... Bosian War (US, German & British soliders went to help victims against enemies)[/FONT][/COLOR]

Which "enemy" countries are attacking Germany?

Yes I already answered Reba in my previous post... "Yes I know why Americans got bases here in Germany, so?"... This is very old... because they do not control Germans for invade other countries anymore at long time ago... but defend enemy countries for try to invade Germany.

Which enemy countries are now trying to invade Germany?

There're never being war because German refused to have other WWIII... and also war.

Like you said, "Don't say 'Never' ...because you never know... "

...The world know that Germany never want to attack other countries for war but defense...

No, the "world" knows no such thing.

 

[Reba]

Military Government - Germany Supreme Commander's area of control Proclamation No. 1 To The People of Germany:

I, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander, Allied Expeditionary Force, do hereby proclaim as follows:

I. The Allied Forces serving under my command have now entered Germany. We come as conquerors, but not as oppressors. In the area of Germany occupied by the forces under my command, we shall obliterate Nazi-ism and German Militarism. We shall overthrow the Nazi rule, dissolve the Nazi Party and abolish the cruel, oppressive and discriminatory laws and institutions which the Party has created. We shall eradicate that German Militarism which has so often disrupted the peace of the world. Military and Party leaders, the Gestapo, and others suspected of crimes and atrocities will be tried and, if guilty, punished as they deserve.

II. Supreme legislative, judicial and executive authority and powers within the occupied territory are vested in me as Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces and as Military Governor, and the Military Government is established to exercise these powers under my direction. All persons in the occupied territory will obey immediately and without question all the enactments and orders of the Military Government. Military Government Courts will be established for the punishment of offenders. Resistance to the Allied Forces will be ruthlessly stamped out. Other serious offences will be dealt with severely.

III. All German courts and educational institutions within the occupied territory are suspended. The Volksgerichtshof, the Sondergerichte, the SS Police Courts and other special courts are deprived of authority throughout the occupied territory. Re-opening of the criminal and civil courts and educational institutions will be authorized when conditions permit.

IV. All officials are charged with the duty of remaining at their posts until further orders, and obeying and enforcing all orders or directions of Military Government or the Allied Authorities addressed to the German Government or the German people. This applies also to officials, employees, and workers of all public undertakings and utilities and to all other persons engaged in essential work.


Dwight D. Eisenhower
General of the Army, Supreme Commander, Allied Expeditionary Force

(Dwight D. Eisenhower); Important and rare bi-lingual Proclamation No. 1 the occupation of Germany by the Allied Expedition Forces. "We come as conquerors, but not as oppressors...we shall overthrow the Nazi rule...abolish the cruel...eradicate that

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I have no problem with military people venting about their situation. My problem is with civilian people who claim that they "support" the military but really don't. That's what I'm talking about.

Yes I know what you are talking about. You talked about civilian people what you experienced in real life and I talked about military people what I experienced in real life.

You totally missed the point.

I don't care what those people said to or about me. That's not the point. The point is, this so-called "support" that civilians claim to give military people is the same heap of baloney now that they dished out during the Vietnam war. They say that they respect and support military people while at the same time looking down their noses and criticizing what the military people do.

Okay.

Yes I know it's civilian people, you referred to. I don't have any experience to witness the civilian people to put military people down like what you described here. All what I see is they share their experience with civilian people... share their support. Their ranting/venting influence civilian people.

What on earth are you talking about? What dream wish?

Of course it's depressing for a soldier to hear civilians say that their service is wrong, that the war is wrong, that the mission is wrong; that's not a "dream wish"--that's a nightmare. Soldiers' lives are hard enough; they don't need constant criticism and bashing on top of that.

Do you mean at your time, not at present time?

A lot of people wish to become what they are is fulfill their dream wish... I have a German neighbor (next main road from my house) who is career as solider. I am befriend with his wife. He said that it's his dream wish since childhood. If he feel bad and depress etc then those job is not right for him. He talk positive things about save and help the victims and defend, etc. He personally is against Iraq war.

I do not beleive that soliders are depressing by civilian's negative words itself but their severe nightmare after their bad experience with war issues, etc. We all support them... That's why many soliders decided to resign Army... but they are being forced to extend their agreement contract that's depress them... I don't blame them...

I also don't blame people for that because it's not necassary to kill innocnet people. They should arrest right one, not kill inncoent people including children... It got soliders bad nightmare... Many soliders seek therapy for the help after Iraq war.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, it's not "whatever." Accurate knowledge of history and politics is important, not "whatever."

I said "whatever" because you said that I am wrong... and think I don't know about those history...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Do you remember when the American troops arrived in Germany? It was during WWII. Do you remember why they arrive in Germany? It was to defeat the German army. Do you remember why the American and Allied troops stayed in Germany? It was to capture and try the Nazis and German military leaders, and to set up a new government. Who controlled that new government? The Allies, under American General Eisenhower. Eventually, the Germans were allowed to govern themselves again.

Did the Germans invite the Americans? No. Who decided that the American military could stay? The Germans? No. The Americans decided to stay, and the Germans could not refuse.

I do not need to repeat since I already answered your question of post #317 "Yes I know why Americans got bases here in Germany, so?" You do not need to convince me because I do know those history...

American and Allied presence did deter some Soviet ambitions but that was not the initial reason for American occupation.

Yes, it is also reason as well. At first US soliders helped Britian and some European countries to attack Germany and then later stopped Russians for tried to take Germany over. Without US and Britian soliders, Germany country would be communist. Yes alot of the bases originated because we tried to protect the world from the communist countries. Now Terrorists

Has it occurred to you that the Berlin Wall is down, and aggressive communism from Soviets against Germans is over? Then why are the Americans still in Germany?

Why should I repeat since I already explained in my last post of yesterday why Americans are still in Germany?

America has bases in Germany and Japan because America won and they lost. That's it. Have you noticed that America doesn't allow any German or Japanese bases in America? Think about it.

Simple answer: Because America don't want those countries to get powerful. Question, why America doesn't have a base in Russia, China or India?

Anyway, we are not interesting because we want peaceful, not war. My German neighbor was stationed in America.

I didn't say that the US Army now controls Germans.

Why you said that I am wrong when I said that US Army defend against enemies and protect the world from enemy countries? Now you said that you didn't say that US Army control Germans which mean that I am right.

The US Army has the right to establish and maintain bases in Germany because America and the Allies defeated Germany in WWII. The Germans didn't invite the Americans in. The Americans forced their way in, and got bases as part of the conditions of Germany's surrender. The mission of the American military was not to defend Germany; it was to disarm, judge, punish, restore order, and re-construct Germany, under Allied terms, not German terms.

Yes, this is a WWII history. It's very old... We are not here to talk about WWII but Iraq war. I am trying to say that US Army do not control German but protect the world from enemies. This is a defense.

You might think that history is very old and done with, but the conditions continue on into the present and future.

This is a history like North and South civil war in America..., black slave, etc.. I never said that those history should be finish for good... it should be remain forever... I only said that it's very old... We should talk about present and future... focus on Iraq war... not WWII...

Which "enemy" countries are attacking Germany?

Which enemy countries are now trying to invade Germany?

I thought you know what enemy is about... I do not wish to repeat since I already explain about enemy in my previous posts. Everyone know that enemies are everywhere in the world.. .It's soliders' job to protect the world from enemies.

Like you said, "Don't say 'Never' ...because you never know... "

Because German Government vow that there're NO next war which they have been through twice and paid the people for their suffering during WWI and WWII which is enough.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

(Dwight D. Eisenhower); Important and rare bi-lingual Proclamation No. 1 the occupation of Germany by the Allied Expedition Forces. "We come as conquerors, but not as oppressors...we shall overthrow the Nazi rule...abolish the cruel...eradicate that

This is a WWII history, why US military bases are in Germany which is old... We are here to focus Iraq war and terrorists... it's about present and future, not WWII because it was over at long time ago.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

America has bases in Germany and Japan because America won and they lost. That's it.

I forget to edit to add one more in my previous post...

No, America are not alone who won against Germany but with different European countries together.

Who built the atom before put atom bomb to Japan?

 

[Reba]

Yes I know it's civilian people, you referred to. I don't have any experience to witness the civilian people to put military people down like what you described here. All what I see is they share their experience with civilian people... share their support. Their ranting/venting influence civilian people.

You've never seen the international anti-war protesters on TV news? Have you asked your military friends how they feel when they see and hear so many people criticize them or look down on them?

Do you mean at your time, not at present time?

Past AND present. Don't you know about Code Pink?

A lot of people wish to become what they are is fulfill their dream wish... I have a German neighbor (next main road from my house) who is career as solider. I am befriend with his wife. He said that it's his dream wish since childhood. If he feel bad and depress etc then those job is not right for him. He talk positive things about save and help the victims and defend, etc. He personally is against Iraq war.

There are many career military people who are proud of their service. But it's still disheartening to hear and see that the people back home don't support them. How would you feel if large groups of people publicly criticized you every day for every thing that you did? Even if you know you are doing the right thing, it is NOT support to have people constantly criticizing you. Especially when you are far from home in a dangerous place, and you aren't allowed to speak back to the criticizers.

I do not beleive that soliders are depressing by civilian's negative words itself but their severe nightmare after their bad experience with war issues, etc. We all support them...

Do you support all soldiers, even the ones who are proud of their war service? If you do, that's good.

That's why many soliders decided to resign Army... but they are being forced to extend their agreement contract that's depress them... I don't blame them...

Do you also not blame the ones who volunteer to go back for another tour in Iraq? I hope so.

I also don't blame people for that because it's not necassary to kill innocnet people. They should arrest right one, not kill inncoent people including children... It got soliders bad nightmare... Many soliders seek therapy for the help after Iraq war. [/FONT][/COLOR]

What are you talking about? Do you know the difference between battle and individual criminal activity? War isn't about one army "arresting" members of the other army.

Sometimes I wonder if more soldiers seek psychological help during this war because more disturbing things are happening, or because more psychological help is available.

Previous wars were just as psychologically disturbing but there wasn't much help available in the past. In past wars, combat soldiers were expected to just be tough and keep it to themselves.

 

[Reba]

I do not need to repeat since I already answered your question of post #317 "Yes I know why Americans got bases here in Germany, so?" You do not need to convince me because I do know those history...

Good. So we agree that the establishment of American bases in Germany had nothing to do with protecting Germany from attack.

Yes, it is also reason as well. At first US soliders helped Britian and some European countries to attack Germany and then later stopped Russians for tried to take Germany over. Without US and Britian soliders, Germany country would be communist.

Half of Germany did become communist. That was because the Soviets were one of the Allies that defeated Germany.

Yes alot of the bases originated because we tried to protect the world from the communist countries. Now Terrorists

Do you really believe that the reason America has bases in Germany is to protect Germany from an outside terrorist attack? Where did you get that information?

Why should I repeat since I already explained in my last post of yesterday why Americans are still in Germany?

I guess you can't give a logical answer for that question. OK.

Simple answer: Because America don't want those countries to get powerful. Question, why America doesn't have a base in Russia, China or India?

Because America didn't defeat Russia, China, or India in a war. America DID defeat Germany in a war. That's exactly what I've been saying.

Countries don't normally invite and voluntarily allow the military forces of other countries to establish bases in their countries. The armies of the victorious countries force the defeated countries to accept their bases, usually as a condition of surrender.

Anyway, we are not interesting because we want peaceful, not war. My German neighbor was stationed in America.

You say that Germany wants peace now. That isn't forever.

Many foreign military members are stationed in America for training and liaison duty but the bases are still American. There are no foreign military bases in the US.

Why you said that I am wrong when I said that US Army defend against enemies and protect the world from enemy countries? Now you said that you didn't say that US Army control Germans which mean that I am right.

Those are two separate points.

1. The US Army does not protect the world from enemy countries. We don't have American armies in every country. We don't have bases in every country. That's why your statement was wrong.

2. The US Army does not control German citizenry now. The US Army did control German people during the period after WWII (re: Eisenhower's declaration). Now, Germany has its own civil government.

Yes, this is a WWII history. It's very old... We are not here to talk about WWII but Iraq war. I am trying to say that US Army do not control German but protect the world from enemies. This is a defense.

WWII history is not that old. There are millions of people still alive who lived thru that war.

The US Army doesn't control the German government or people. The US Army doesn't protect the world. Even if the US wanted to "protect the world" all the other countries would complain and fight us. That's why so many people are against US participation in the Iraq war. Can you imagine the outcry if the US started "protecting" the world?

This is a history like North and South civil war in America..., black slave, etc.. I never said that those history should be finish for good... it should be remain forever... I only said that it's very old... We should talk about present and future... focus on Iraq war... not WWII...

Here's the differences:

The people who lived during the US Civil War are all dead now. The political entity that was the Confederacy no longer exists. The conditions of surrender do not continue.

The people who lived during WWII are still alive now. Many of the political entities (nations) that existed during WWII still exist. The conditions of surrender continue.

I don't mind focusing on the Iraq war. That was the basis for my original question. How can you in good conscience earn a paycheck from the organization that sends troops to a war that you are against?

Because German Government vow that there're NO next war which they have been through twice and paid the people for their suffering during WWI and WWII which is enough.

The people who make up the German government change thru the years. The people who remember the suffering of war will die off. So you can't say "never". You should take your own advice, "Don't say 'Never' ...because you never know..."

 

[Reba]

...Who built the atom before put atom bomb to Japan?

The Americans used German and American scientists and technology to beat Hilter to the atom bomb. Truman gave the go ahead to drop two bombs on Japan because they refused to surrender, and he wanted to avoid a deadly ground war.

So, what's your point?