Death Panel a Republican policy

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netrox

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Love this article!

"Sarah Palin has raised the specter of "death panels." Such fears are understandable. It's not preposterous to imagine laws that would try to save money by encouraging the inconvenient elderly to make an early exit. After all, that's been the Republican policy for years."

"Other GOP policies promote death for senior citizens with more modest incomes. Take George W. Bush's failed plan to privatize Social Security—a program that has driven life expectancy up and death rates down since it was instituted."

Why the GOP Is Gunning for Grandma | Newsweek Newsweek Voices - Jacob Weisberg | Newsweek.com
 
LMAO!!!

Ha ha.....

Boy. You are really reaching....desperately so.

Needed a good laugh.

As one RINO would say, "I'll be back."
 
Love this article!

"Sarah Palin has raised the specter of "death panels." Such fears are understandable. It's not preposterous to imagine laws that would try to save money by encouraging the inconvenient elderly to make an early exit. After all, that's been the Republican policy for years."

"Other GOP policies promote death for senior citizens with more modest incomes. Take George W. Bush's failed plan to privatize Social Security—a program that has driven life expectancy up and death rates down since it was instituted."

Why the GOP Is Gunning for Grandma | Newsweek Newsweek Voices - Jacob Weisberg | Newsweek.com

Sarah Palin endorsed end of life counseling at first. Source is EEO.state.ak.us The page itself no longer exists and I only have the cached verision of it. Anyway here's the quote:

State of Alaska > Governor > Proclamations > Proclamations Archive

Healthcare Decisions Day Print Now Printer Friendly

WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions. WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.

WHEREAS, it is estimated that only about 20 percent of people in Alaska have executed an advance directive. Moreover, it is estimated that less than 50 percent of severely or terminally ill patients have an advance directive.

WHEREAS, it is likely that a significant reason for these low percentages is that there is both a lack of knowledge and considerable confusion in the public about Advance Directives.

WHEREAS, one of the principal goals of Healthcare Decisions Day is to encourage hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities, and hospices to participate in a statewide effort to provide clear and consistent information to the public about advance directives, as well as to encourage medical professionals and lawyers to volunteer their time and efforts to improve public knowledge and increase the number of Alaska’s citizens with advance directives.

WHEREAS, the Foundation for End of Life Care in Juneau, Alaska, and other organizations throughout the United States have endorsed this event and are committed to educating the public about the importance of discussing healthcare choices and executing advance directives.

WHEREAS, as a result of April 16, 2008, being recognized as Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, more citizens will have conversations about their healthcare decisions; more citizens will execute advance directives to make their wishes known; and fewer families and healthcare providers will have to struggle with making difficult healthcare decisions in the absence of guidance from the patient.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Sarah Palin, Governor of the state of Alaska, do hereby proclaim April 16, 2008, as:

Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, and I call this observance to the attention of all our citizens.

I find this rather ironic considering that she has called them Death Panels when she endorsed this at first. She should know better.
 
LMAO!!!

Ha ha.....

Boy. You are really reaching....desperately so.

Needed a good laugh.

As one RINO would say, "I'll be back."

Again, you have NOT produced a single shred of evidence supporting that Obama is proposing a "death panel" - the idiotic thing is that counseling for dealing with end of life is NORMAL and paid by private insurances and supported by both parties. It was Sarah Palin that started calling it a "death panel" - a political rhetoric that appeals to the ignorant masses and herself as well!
 
"Sarah Palin endorsed end of life counseling at first. Source is EEO.state.ak.us The page itself no longer exists and I only have the cached verision of it. Anyway here's the quote: "

She is SO busted. She's a grinning idiot, isn't that obvious?!
 
"Sarah Palin endorsed end of life counseling at first. Source is EEO.state.ak.us The page itself no longer exists and I only have the cached verision of it. Anyway here's the quote: "

She is SO busted. She's a grinning idiot, isn't that obvious?!

LOL! As if we needed more evidence that's she's an idiot!
 
I would love to have covered end of life counseling. My father had a long agonizing death from pancreatic cancer. More help coordinating his palliative care and final preparations would have been helpful. Once a patient is under palliative care, he is not within medical care (no longer in a regular hospital and only under the care of pain doctors). My dad refused to go to hospice. Having help coordinating his care and pain management would have been helpful. I don't think that he had adequate pain control at the end. Pain relief with morphine during a terminal illness is complicated.
 
Let me help you guys for a change.

Looky...
Alaska Governor Sean Parnell

Yeah. It sure looks "missing" to me. Maybe look in the archive section the next time when you look?

Compare and contrast as seen between the bolded red letters and bolded black letters from Palin's Facebook:

Troubling Questions Remain About Obama's Health Care PlanShare
Thursday, August 13, 2009 at 10:11pm
I join millions of Americans in expressing appreciation for the Senate Finance Committee’s decision to remove the provision in the pending health care bill that authorizes end-of-life consultations (Section 1233 of HR 3200). It’s gratifying that the voice of the people is getting through to Congress; however, that provision was not the only disturbing detail in this legislation; it was just one of the more obvious ones.

As I noted in my statement last week, nationalized health care inevitably leads to rationing. There is simply no way to cover everyone and hold down the costs at the same time. The rationing system proposed by one of President Obama’s key health care advisors is particularly disturbing. I’m speaking of the “Complete Lives System” advocated by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the president’s chief of staff. President Obama has not yet stated any opposition to the “Complete Lives System,” a system which, if enacted, would refuse to allocate medical resources to the elderly, the infirm, and the disabled who have less economic potential. [1] Why the silence from the president on this aspect of his nationalization of health care? Does he agree with the “Complete Lives System”? If not, then why is Dr. Emanuel his policy advisor? What is he advising the president on? I just learned that Dr. Emanuel is now distancing himself from his own work and claiming that his “thinking has evolved” on the question of rationing care to benefit the strong and deny the weak. [2] How convenient that he disavowed his own work only after the nature of his scholarship was revealed to the public at large.

The president is busy assuring us that we can keep our private insurance plans, but common sense (and basic economics) tells us otherwise. The public option in the Democratic health care plan will crowd out private insurers, and that’s what it’s intended to do. A single payer health care plan has been President Obama’s agenda all along, though he is now claiming otherwise. Don’t take my word for it. Here’s what he said back in 2003:

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan.... A single payer health care plan – universal health care plan – that’s what I would like to see.” [3]

A single-payer health care plan might be what Obama would like to see, but is it what the rest of us would like to see? What does a single payer health care plan look like? We need look no further than other countries who have adopted such a plan. The picture isn’t pretty. [4] The only way they can control costs is to ration care. As I noted in my earlier statement quoting Thomas Sowell, government run health care won’t reduce the price of medical care; it will simply refuse to pay the price. The expensive innovative procedures that people from all over the world come to the United States for will not be available under a government plan that seeks to cover everyone by capping costs.

Our senior citizens are right to be wary of this health care bill. Medical care at the end of life accounts for 80 percent of all health care. When care is rationed, that is naturally where the cuts will be felt first. The “end-of-life” consultations authorized in Section 1233 of HR 3200 were an obvious and heavy handed attempt at pressuring people to reduce the financial burden on the system by minimizing their own care. Worst still, it actually provided a financial incentive to doctors to initiate these consultations. People are right to point out that such a provision doesn’t sound “purely voluntary.”

In an article I noted yesterday, Charles Lane wrote:

“Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life’s end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it’s good to have a doctor’s perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party -- the government -- recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don’t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.” [5]

As Lane also points out:

Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren’t quite “purely voluntary,” as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, “purely voluntary” means “not unless the patient requests one.” Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.

Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic. [see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html]

I agree. Last year, I issued a proclamation for “Healthcare Decisions Day.” [6] The proclamation sought to increase the public’s knowledge about creating living wills and establishing powers of attorney. There was no incentive to choose one option over another. There was certainly no financial incentive for physicians to push anything. In fact, the proclamation explicitly called on medical professionals and lawyers “to volunteer their time and efforts” to provide information to the public.

Comparing the “Healthcare Decisions Day” proclamation to Section 1233 of HR 3200 is ridiculous. The two are like apples and oranges. The attempt to link the two shows how desperate the proponents of nationalized health care are to shift the debate away from the disturbing details of their bill.


There is one aspect of this bill which I have not addressed yet, but it’s a very obvious one. It’s the simple fact that we can’t afford it. But don’t take my word for it. Take the word of Doug Elmendorf, the director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. He told the Senate Budget Committee last month:

“In the legislation that has been reported we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount. And on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs.” [7]

Dr. Elmendorf went on to note that this health care legislation would increase spending at an unsustainable rate.

Our nation is already $11.5 trillion in debt. Where will the money come from? Taxes, of course. And will a burdensome new tax help our economy recover? Of course not. The best way to encourage more health care coverage is to foster a strong economy where people can afford to purchase their own coverage if they choose to do so. The current administration’s economic policies have done nothing to help in this regard.

Health care is without a doubt a complex and contentious issue, but health care reform should be a market oriented solution. There are many ways we can reform the system and lower costs without nationalizing it.

The economist Arthur Laffer has taken the lead in pushing for a patient-center health care reform policy. He noted in a Wall Street Journal article earlier this month:

“A patient-centered health-care reform begins with individual ownership of insurance policies and leverages Health Savings Accounts, a low-premium, high-deductible alternative to traditional insurance that includes a tax-advantaged savings account. It allows people to purchase insurance policies across state lines and reduces the number of mandated benefits insurers are required to cover. It reallocates the majority of Medicaid spending into a simple voucher for low-income individuals to purchase their own insurance. And it reduces the cost of medical procedures by reforming tort liability laws.” [8]

Those are real reforms that we can live with and afford. Once again, I warn my fellow Americans that if we go down the path of nationalized health care, there will be no turning back. We must stop and think or we may find ourselves losing even more of our freedoms.

- Sarah Palin

[1] See Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions
[2] See Palin target renounces care rationing - Washington Times
[3]See [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hsqzSKuC44]YouTube - Obama on single-payer health care[/ame]
[4] See Government Medicine Kills by Deroy Murdock on National Review Online
[5] See Charles Lane - House Health-Care Reform Bill Oversteps on End-of-Life Issues - washingtonpost.com
[6] See Alaska Governor Sean Parnell
[7] See CBO Sees No Net Federal Cost Savings in Dem Health Plans - The Note
[8] See Arthur B. Laffer: Obama’s Health-Care Proposals Won’t Make Health-Care Better - WSJ.com

The short version? Alaska's version contains no incentives or payments to doctors in help push decisions for end of life decisions. However, in HR 3200 section 1233 there are provisions that do offer payments to doctors regarding in of life decisions.

:cool2:
 
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I think we all know who the real idiots are and it's not Palin.

LOL
 
I read this yesterday and the sheer stupidity made me laugh out loud. Trying to privatize a system that's going broke? Taking away a tax because it's double taxation? If anything, the latter is an indictment on the Democrats who are allowing the tax to be reinstated.

But then I remembered- this is the same guy who wrote an article saying that if Obama lost, it would be because of racism. Nope, couldn't be because of all the problems that have become so apparent in just 7 months and that will become even more apparent as time goes on. This guy's a bomb thrower and not even a very good one at that.

Palin's "death panels" quote was in reference to rationing, not the end-of-life counseling provision. Merely encouraging people to get advanced directives is far more innocuous than what the bill actually did, as kokonut pointed out. If anyone's busted, it's those who tried to make an equivalence between the two.
 
Shel posted the exact wording in the bill to refute the concept of "death panels" and "rationing" in reply to yet another thread that omitted crucial information and took wording out of context, and well as faulty interpretation. Since no one appears to be capable of actually reading the whole document, I will refer you to her posts. She has addressed the pertinent sections for your convenience.
 
I would love to have covered end of life counseling. My father had a long agonizing death from pancreatic cancer. More help coordinating his palliative care and final preparations would have been helpful. Once a patient is under palliative care, he is not within medical care (no longer in a regular hospital and only under the care of pain doctors). My dad refused to go to hospice. Having help coordinating his care and pain management would have been helpful. I don't think that he had adequate pain control at the end. Pain relief with morphine during a terminal illness is complicated.

End of life counseling has been shown over and over to actually increase the level of palliative care for those in excrutiating pain from a terminal illness. End of life counseling allows the individual to maintain autonomy over their decisions regarding their medical care right up to the moment that death occurs. It is beyond me why anyone would see a problem with someone being permitted to make those decisions for themselves. Where is the reasoning in opposition to end of life counseling? All the opposition is founded on some absurd concept that an individual with a terminal illness is not capable of determining and communicating how much pain they are in, and that they are somehow rendered incompetent to make their own medical decisions by virtue of that terminal illness. Completely absurd.

And I completely agree. Advance directives empower the individual, and prevent a loved one being forced to make a decision that may or may not be what the individual wanted. Advance directives are the most loving thing one can do for their family.
 
End of life counseling has been shown over and over to actually increase the level of palliative care for those in excrutiating pain from a terminal illness. End of life counseling allows the individual to maintain autonomy over their decisions regarding their medical care right up to the moment that death occurs. It is beyond me why anyone would see a problem with someone being permitted to make those decisions for themselves. Where is the reasoning in opposition to end of life counseling? All the opposition is founded on some absurd concept that an individual with a terminal illness is not capable of determining and communicating how much pain they are in, and that they are somehow rendered incompetent to make their own medical decisions by virtue of that terminal illness. Completely absurd.

here we go again! better bring out that robotic parrot in your closet! :lol:
 
here we go again! better bring out that robotic parrot in your closet! :lol:

LOL! He's hiding in there somewhere. Only thing that has changed is that they have coined the term "death panel" and "rationing" because those words have greater power to invoke fear in the uninformed.
 
Shel posted the exact wording in the bill to refute the concept of "death panels" and "rationing" in reply to yet another thread that omitted crucial information and took wording out of context, and well as faulty interpretation. Since no one appears to be capable of actually reading the whole document, I will refer you to her posts. She has addressed the pertinent sections for your convenience.

I downloaded one of the drafts but I don't have the patience to slog thru all the stuff and a lot of it is hard for me to understand.

Shel certainly knew what she was talking about when she explained this stuff. I don't pretend to know anything about insurance stuff but I can tell if someone knows what she's/he's talking about.

Likewise, I'll take Flip's words over a certain climate change denier despite his claims that he's in a research position in his profession and that's he's actually a scientist; I read somewhere that there's no position that's so preposterous that you can't find a scientist who won't verify it. He put up papers that actually showed evidence of climate change in an attempt to refute climate change in another thread. It made me wonder about him.
 
I downloaded one of the drafts but I don't have the patience to slog thru all the stuff and a lot of it is hard for me to understand.

Shel certainly knew what she was talking about when she explained this stuff. I don't pretend to know anything about insurance stuff but I can tell if someone knows what she's/he's talking about.

Likewise, I'll take Flip's words over a certain climate change denier despite his claims that he's in a research position in his profession and that's he's actually a scientist; I read somewhere that there's no position that's so preposterous that you can't find a scientist who won't verify it. He put up papers that actually showed evidence of climate change in an attempt to refute climate change in another thread. It made me wonder about him.

Yes, Shel's information was very accurrate, and thorough. She did an excellent job of debunking the myths.

Agreed regarding Flip's information as well. I have yet to see anyone come up with valid and reliable research to dispute Flip's claims. All I have seen are blog entries and op ed pieces.
 
I think it is stupid for any political to be involve with our healthcare. I don't want voting them in and out and risking my healthcare rights. "let's save money on taxes" (hmmm, what healthcare option shall we remove)...

I've seeing them doing this to deaf schools already and now the deaf have no choice but depend on private school.
 
http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf <----- If they made people go over this mandatory --well, have a doctor or social worker bring up the subject mandatory . they can get pushy if they want you to take hospice or something, I've been there. They can get pushy about abortion too depending on how severe the pregnancy is-- anyway, if they made people go over this to your severely depressed son, how do you think he'll answer?
If a president went over it and says "NO MACHINE" to his living will, do you think doctors will not fight for his life? it is kinda scary how people would answer it.
 
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