Death Panel a Republican policy

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None of you ever read the entire bill. Not the senators, representatives, or even you Liebling, or even me. You can't even admit to that.
 
kokonut said:
None of you ever read the entire bill. Not the senators, representatives, or even you Liebling, or even me. You can't even admit to that.
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If I want to read accurate one then visit Factcheck.org, snope.com or PolitiFact instead of read the media´s misinterpret view on the list of the bill or anything.

Yes, I admit in one of your threads that I don´t read biased medias like Foxnews where you posted most of Foxnews´links.

And I prefer to listen the people who have own first hand experience over read Media.
 
kokonut said:
None of you ever read the entire bill. Not the senators, representatives, or even you Liebling, or even me. You can't even admit to that.
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I read all 1016 pages of it online. But nice of you to admit that you haven't.:giggle: Guess that's why you rely on others to interpret it for you.
 
Doctors make the decision when to *offer* palliative care. Doctors are not out there shipping off people when there is still treatment and hope. This is *not* rationing care. It's the difficult situation when a patient has a terminal illness and treatment is futile. People are confusing the situation.

The patient ultimately makes the decision. Often, the patient decides to switch to palliative care when the treatment is too much (that's what my dad did--chemo was too brutal, was not a cure and was only buying a little time). Cancer treatment is toxic and painful. When a patient decides to end medical treatment and seeks palliative care (primarily pain relief). then the patient goes to hospice. The end of life counseling is to help coordinate the palliative care (hospice, home nursing care, etc.).

Some people have this idea that the doctors will somehow collude with the insurer to withhold medical treatment and bus the patient off to hospice. An over active imagination? A fear of hospice? Hospice is a wonderful place for giving palliative care and adequate pain relief. The patients need morphine, which slowly shuts down the patient's organs. It's a situation that needs special medical care. The doctors and nurses there make sure that the patient is comfortable and that the patient's emotional and spiritual needs are met.

If you have been fortunate enough not to have to go through this with a loved one, you are lucky. It's a traumatic experience for the patient and family, no matter how well planned and assisted.

People need to be grown ups and be able to discuss this. We're all going to die someday. Yes, FB has an app to tell you when you're going to die, if you're interested in that! LOL!
 
kokonut said:
None of you ever read the entire bill. Not the senators, representatives, or even you Liebling, or even me. You can't even admit to that.
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ok enough's enough - either you can quiz her or you can stfu :)
 
sallylou said:
Doctors make the decision when to *offer* palliative care. Doctors are not out there shipping off people when there is still treatment and hope. This is *not* rationing care. It's the difficult situation when a patient has a terminal illness and treatment is futile. People are confusing the situation.

The patient ultimately makes the decision. Often, the patient decides to switch to palliative care when the treatment is too much (that's what my dad did--chemo was too brutal, was not a cure and was only buying a little time). Cancer treatment is toxic and painful. When a patient decides to end medical treatment and seeks palliative care (primarily pain relief). then the patient goes to hospice. The end of life counseling is to help coordinate the palliative care (hospice, home nursing care, etc.).

Some people have this idea that the doctors will somehow collude with the insurer to withhold medical treatment and bus the patient off to hospice. An over active imagination? A fear of hospice? Hospice is a wonderful place for giving palliative care and adequate pain relief. The patients need morphine, which slowly shuts down the patient's organs. It's a situation that needs special medical care. The doctors and nurses there make sure that the patient is comfortable and that the patient's emotional and spiritual needs are met.

If you have been fortunate enough not to have to go through this with a loved one, you are lucky. It's a traumatic experience for the patient and family, no matter how well planned and assisted.

People need to be grown ups and be able to discuss this. We're all going to die someday. Yes, FB has an app to tell you when you're going to die, if you're interested in that! LOL!
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Well said.

Regarding collusion with the insurance companies...more physicians retain staff that do nothing but fight for payment on the patient's behalf from insurance companies that physicians who are in their pocket. Increases medical costs by increasing the cost of the physician simply to stay in business. And people also seem to forget that the contract between the insurance company and the insurer doesn't involve the doctor. Any physician can demand payment up front and let the insurance company reimburse the patient. Do they do that? No. They file your forms, go to bat for you with numerous diagnostic narratives, spend hours on the phone with insurers all as a service to their patients.
 
I see it as the point not being about who initiated death panels or who's making a worse one than the other. Out of control insurance cost is what has created the need (informal death panel) for some to die rather than recieve life sustaining care. It's a natural part of life. Other countries don't have this option of keeping everyone alive till they reach 90 or 100....your time come, you a goner...part of life...nature...other countries people accept this. It even makes them more appreciative of life maybe. And perhaps take care of themselves better thru thier life.
We've become spoiled and want political correctness FOR EVERYTHING. It goes agaisnt the grain of life. Death is part of life....keeping the rich alive at the expense of saving some of the poor is immoral. I don't care how much money you made or how hard you worked. Ya stuffed ritzy food down your gullet all your life with your fatcat monies with no regard for your health......then ya deserve to die, plain and simple....but no...after all that piggin out...now you want someone else to sacrifice thier health so you can get spoiled little baby care. IMMORAL.
These arguments are selfish moot garbage. And some of these fatcat folk are big on churchgoin. tsk tsk.
We only need this so called death panel because those who are screaming death panels are the ones who made the big discrepancy variations in health care.
The natural state of health care would be care for all. We have gone so far away from it for so long that we don't even see that. You give kids toys and candy and then try and take them away and this is what we get....a bunch of crybabies. Plain and simple. They should have never had this much discrepancy in health care in the first place.
Nature would remove the need for any panel....equality in insurance would remove people's belief that they can buy time while piggin out like slobs.
Let nature rule. Let it become the norm. The norm we have arrived at is filthy immorality.
 
Insurance companies go after the money. They want less work for more money. They can do this by serving the rich and removing others. Because this allows them to increase premiums cuz rich can afford it. Supply and demand. If they reduce cost then they have more customers but they want the lazy way.
You have to have a credit card to buy anything online now....they don't want to do the work of paper administration...same thing...lazy with thier hand out for more money.
Everything shifted to serving the rich...high cost.....less work....lazy bums. Throw em out.
 
The real death panels is the US insurance companies that decide whom to treat or not treat!
 
jillio said:
Yeppers. And they have been doing it for years and years.
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Very sad, my heart goes to the families who lost their beloved one to US insurance companies´s decision.
 
Anytime you have rationinng provisions and the fact that we don't have the money to do this and if everybody gets covered, there'll be health care rationing just to help save money and when that happens, then lives are at stake.

Ya gotta read between the lines and understand the adminstration's preferred agenda.
 
kokonut said:
Anytime you have rationinng provisions and the fact that we don't have the money to do this and if everybody gets covered, there'll be health care rationing just to help save money and when that happens, then lives are at stake.

Ya gotta read between the lines and understand the adminstration's preferred agenda.
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For bloody sakes.

Rationing happens everywhere. It depends on how it is being rationed. In our case, the rationing is because every bloody person with a cold figures they need to go into the ER. However it's stellar in that if you do have something that you can't pay for, you will be covered.

Public healthcare is awesome for people that don't put enough money aside for things. However if you have the money to spend willy-nilly, then there is the private healthcare option.

And this is from someone who have been on both sides of the fence!
 
I've been on both side of the fence, too.

When the ultimate goal of a govt take over of health insurance and that all Americans are covered and the fact that we do not even have the money to do this will lead to greater and greater rationing. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see this. Last years tax revenue was around $2.3 trillion dollars, plus we have a staggering deficit in the running that will balloon up to over $20 trillion dollars, how do you reconcile on covering an expanding govt and govt programs when you have a ballooning deficit, a Social Security that will go default (didn't help when Congress raided the funds out of SS trust fund to pay for their pet projects), a fraud-laden Medicare system, the increasing taxation (which will inevitably lead to less and less tax revenues) and the fact that we do not even have the money to pay all this.

How?

They have a magic wand or what?
 
people defend Margaret but hates A.G. Bells.

Go figures.

opps, wrong thread. oh well.
 
souggy said:
Then nip the problems at the buds, not attack the whole concept.
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And yet ignored the fact that Medicare fraud generate some $60 billion dollars a year. Imagined if they "nipped it in the bud" 10 years ago we'd already saved some 500 billion dollars?

But they don't want to and thus by expanding a program will only create more fraud and waste that will make Medicare's own waste a pimple.

The answer is that you don't address previous wastes with more wastes by expanding a program with money we don't have.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
people defend Margaret but hates A.G. Bells.

Go figures.

opps, wrong thread. oh well.
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ok , it's :topic:

What Marget Sanger and Bell did were inexcusable.

However, abortion is usually not used to eliminate so called "undesireables"of a race or class group and it has been going on long before the likes of Sanger and AG Bell came along.

Ok now back to the topic.
 
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The point is

The point is they found some money for the Irag war, they found some money for Afganistan, but they want to tell somebody that taking care of uninsured poor people cost to much. Now that is rich.
 
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