Tipping System

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 06:37 AM

I have to create a new thread over tipping system separate from other thread
http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.ph...9&page=2&pp=20 because this issue over tipping is not relate to thread "I am angry with parent". I took some of posts as quote to here. I hope you all don't mind.

Come to discuss with us why you think tipping is okay in your country...

I notice that some of members here or other forums are angry with deaf tippers for give waitress/waiter little tip. I was like wow... because tipping system is not known in Germany.

diehardbiker · 07-06-2005, 06:44 AM

Hey, main reason for tipping usually because there are several positions in the United States offer ultra-low wages, so that is why tipping is needed to make up the difference between dirty low wage and normal wages. In fact regular minimum wage here is $6.10 an hour, I think and that most waitress only gets $2.90 an hour!!! many deafies don't realize that because they never work there before. This goes same thing to the pizza delivery drivers too! 2.90 an hour is NOT enough to cover the gas cost! That is why they need tip. In fact people who gives good tips tend to get BETTER service than others that don't give tip at all.

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX
This is a big issue with deaf students at NTID/RIT. Many parents spoil their kids and keep them isolated from the outside world until they graduate. Since they're isolated, they don't experience relationships, parties, friends, socializing, etc. They don't even experience any manners such as greetings, farewells, tipping, etc. When they come to college, they're so used to their isolated lifestyle that they strive for freedom. When I say freedom, I don't mean... free to do what they want. I mean, free to do EVERYTHING! That's when they go out and party their asses off getting drunk and stoned. They get in relationships and get all upset about it. They get depressed and suicidal. They have no manners, proper greetings and farewells, they don't even tip well! I've spoken with a lot of deaf students at NTID/RIT. Many of them tell me about how they stayed home a lot and how their parents spoiled them. When I go to parties, it's those students that I see getting drunk off of their asses and smoking up until they pass out. I've seen these students getting in relationships and immediately become too attached that they're practically living together already! This leads to a lot of jealousy issues and then problems arise, they get depressed and suicidal. I'm always seeing and hearing about suicide attempts while I'm living in the dorms at RIT. As for tipping, I see about 95% of all hearies giving tips and 95% of all deafies not giving tips. When I ask them why they didn't tip, know what they tell me? "What for? I only wanted the food, I don't care about their service!" I have friends who work as waiters and waitresses at various restaurants. Know that they tell me? Their worse customers are the deaf ones because they almost never tip.

It all comes to how kids are raised by their parents. I have friends who are great tippers. They have no problems with relationships. They are very friendly with everyone else, especially hearing people. How is that so? They were raised with freedom at home. They could stay out with a negotiable curfew. They were permitted to get jobs. They were able to go out and have Halloween or Christmas parties with their friends. That's what I will give my kids if they were ever deaf.

Some of your posts got me wondering:

It sound terrible to Europeans that waitresses/waiters expects tipping from their customers. Why can't the bosses improve waiteress/waiter's wage instead of rely on customers for tipping?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liza
So you're not a big tipper?
Yeah I am aware of how some people hate having deaf customers because of the nonexisting tips. LOL. That's funny, actually. No offense. In Norway, tipping is not normal. I guess they just pay their waiters and waitresses better than they do in USA.

Yeah, I see the problem is the bosses got the customers pay tips to their employees. They have no reason to complaint over Deaf or hearing customers but their employer!

The prices is fixed with tax in Europe. The receipt will tell you how much taxes you paid, but we don't pay extra like in the US and Canada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Delectable
As for the tipping, I never heard of that particular information re: deaf customers being the worst tippers. I guess that is because in Australia, there's no tipping system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liza
Oh, Norway doesnt have a tipping system either

Yeah it's same with Germany and Europe, too.

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker65

Hey, main reason for tipping usually because there are several positions in the United States offer ultra-low wages, so that is why tipping is needed to make up the difference between dirty low wage and normal wages. In fact regular minimum wage here is $6.10 an hour, I think and that most waitress only gets $2.90 an hour!!! many deafies don't realize that because they never work there before. This goes same thing to the pizza delivery drivers too! 2.90 an hour is NOT enough to cover the gas cost! That is why they need tip. In fact people who gives good tips tend to get BETTER service than others that don't give tip at all.

Well, why can't the bosses improve waitresses´s wages then? It look like that we (customers) make the owner of resturant richer thru tips because it save owner alot of money to pay waitress/waiter which it's not right.

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 06:55 AM

I didn´t know about America´s & Canada´s culture until I saw other forum of last year. I have to learn when I visit their country one day.

Well, we (Europeans) only tipped hairdressers, taxi & Pizza driver, toilet (shopping mall), hotel porter for luggage carrier (voluntarily tipped) but resturant???? interesting...

I visit any resturants with my family. I told waitresses to keep the change, that´s all. I never thought about 15% to 20% tipped like what members stated in their posts. wow!

Kalista · 07-06-2005, 06:59 AM

Deaf people do not earn much money like hearing people. They did not have any money to pay 15% tip of that food worth.

Yes, in this society American Deaf people have no idea how much waitress make very low wage per hour. They did not pay much tip of that 15% what they order.

Last month, we went out to eat with 22 people at Italian Restruant. We figure out to slipt each of us like 186 dollars worth of food and drink. Plus tip 20 % because of appreciate how much waitress work very hard to sever us the food and learn sign language as friendly. I notice some of Deaf people said they do not have much money to pay the tip. They were complained what they order small food like sandwich no drink. They did not want to pay the tip. Grrrrrr Of course, they live on social security disability.

That turns me off a big time !!

diehardbiker · 07-06-2005, 07:33 AM

Really in either way, no tip, meaning food on menu will be even cost more to cover the wage for the waitress, OR make food on menu cheaper, and let waitress earn tip based on their performance. I would rather go on tipping route so I can decide how much waitress actually worth the money for their time. If Waitress did rotten job, I just put in a quarter to show him or her that I DO tip, and you don't deserve better tip because of your poor service. That is how I do, always works for me.
Money have to come from somewhere anyhow. No one gets rich for nothing.

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 07:45 AM

Here is my question again.

But why can't the owner of resturants improve waitresses/waiters's wages instead of rely on their customers?

The tipping system to any resturants are not known in Europe.

Tousi · 07-06-2005, 08:19 AM

Leibling, I can ask you a similar question: Why don't owners pay more to people who assist you in restrooms in Germany? That is unheard of here in the USA except maybe for VERY upscale hotels....

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Leibling, I can ask you a similar question: Why don't owners pay more to people who assist you in restrooms in Germany? That is unheard of here in the USA except maybe for VERY upscale hotels....

Tipping any restrooms is a voluntarily like hairdresses, taxi driver, hotel service who carried luggages for us. They would be not offence if we don't tip them because it don't have to. They paid them correctly due tarif, not low wage like what some of posts mention $2.90 a hour.

The toilet cleaners would say

to $2.90 a hour from their employers.

Could you image how many customers visit to resturants? It's work hard for the waitresses to service many customers. It make the owners richer thru customers and hire waitresses cheaply which it's not right.

Some of posts look like that we have to pay the tips to waitresses

diehardbiker · 07-06-2005, 08:53 AM

I know, but actually its the United States minimum wage for tipped positions. Its there, been around for long time. I have to agree that $2.90 an hour is way way too low. BUT, what I see is that if SOMEBODY is willing to work for 2.90 an hour to start with, the chance of getting fatter pay check in later time is increased! It actually shows future employer that you just want to work regardless of pay. That is what America employer is really looking for. I have tested it myself and I proved it myself to amazed. Those who refused to take "Bottom" position tend to have trouble finding decent jobs later on.
I started my job as dishwasher, in few months I landed even better job, and got another job. I was surprised the result from just start with dishwashing job.

I am not challenge against Europe because it is THEIR culture, and I am not interesting in compete or justify the culture that we have down here. So, Europe by means a contienent, and that America is just another contienent. Difference is expected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Tipping any restrooms is a voluntarily like hairdresses, taxi driver, hotel service who carried luggages for us. They would be not offence if we don't tip them because it don't have to. They paid them correctly due tarif, not low wage like what some of posts mention $2.90 a hour.

The toilet cleaners would say

to $2.90 a hour from their employers.

Could you image how many customers visit to resturants? It's work hard for the waitresses to service many customers. It make the owners richer thru customers and hire waitresses cheaply which it's not right.

Some of posts look like that we have to pay the tips to waitresses

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker65

I know, but actually its the United States minimum wage for tipped positions. Its there, been around for long time. I have to agree that $2.90 an hour is way way too low. BUT, what I see is that if SOMEBODY is willing to work for 2.90 an hour to start with, the chance of getting fatter pay check in later time is increased! It actually shows future employer that you just want to work regardless of pay. That is what America employer is really looking for. I have tested it myself and I proved it myself to amazed. Those who refused to take "Bottom" position tend to have trouble finding decent jobs later on.
I started my job as dishwasher, in few months I landed even better job, and got another job. I was surprised the result from just start with dishwashing job.

I am not challenge against Europe because it is THEIR culture, and I am not interesting in compete or justify the culture that we have down here. So, Europe by means a contienent, and that America is just another contienent. Difference is expected.

Yes, I know that we have different cultures. I didn´t know about America´s & Canada´s tipping system until I saw other forum of last year.

I visit any resturants with my family. I told waitresses to keep the change, that´s all. I never thought about 15% to 20% tipped like what you stated in your posts. Interesting because it's toooo different from Europe.

Yes, I respect that every cultures have different system but I still find it's sad that waitresses/waiters got low wages and got the owners richer.

I got job in kitchen of resturant when I was teenager in London. Paid is good, that's why I'm surprised about US tipping system which we don't have in Europe.

Tousi · 07-06-2005, 09:06 AM

You would be surprised how much good waitresses make, especially in the better eateries. I am a good tipper; but for the ordinary, run-of-the-mill places, I tip double the sales tax which comes to about 16% cuz California's sales tax is 7.75% so I round that off to 8 and double it.

diehardbiker · 07-06-2005, 09:11 AM

Yes, depending on which restaurant! I have know some waitress making at least 250 dollars each day!!! They happen to serve rich people, and those rich people usually pays good tip if waitress respect them very well.
My so called brother in law loves waitress job. I asked him why? His response was this restaurant is where patrons pays nice and heavy tips. Refused to give up the job. So, it does makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

You would be surprised how much good waitresses make, especially in the better eateries. I am a good tipper; but for the ordinary, run-of-the-mill places, I tip double the sales tax which comes to about 16% cuz California's sales tax is 7.75% so I round that off to 8 and double it.

Pvt. Parts · 07-06-2005, 01:11 PM

As a former manager in a restaurant, I may be able to answer your question, Liebling.

The reason the wage is so low for servers is because it is classified as a sales position, and our government allows this because they know that what isn't paid in wages is more than made up for in tips 95% of the time. If it isn't, the restaurant makes up for it.

Personally I think cheap people shouldn't eat out if they haven't figured the tip into the bill ahead of time. Most people who wait tables are students working to pay for school -- it fits their schedule.

Does that help?

Here's how I tip:
- 5% = Poor service
- 10% = OK service
- 15% = Good service
- 20% or more = Exceptional service

I judge a server's performance by their friendliness and attention to detail. It's pretty general but if you spend a lot of time dining out you get a feel for who deserves a good tip and who doesn't.

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker65

Yes, depending on which restaurant! I have know some waitress making at least 250 dollars each day!!! They happen to serve rich people, and those rich people usually pays good tip if waitress respect them very well.
My so called brother in law loves waitress job. I asked him why? His response was this restaurant is where patrons pays nice and heavy tips. Refused to give up the job. So, it does makes sense.

Okay for rich people who afford heavy tips but not for poor people.

Liebling:-))) · 07-06-2005, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvt. Parts

As a former manager in a restaurant, I may be able to answer your question, Liebling.

The reason the wage is so low for servers is because it is classified as a sales position, and our government allows this because they know that what isn't paid in wages is more than made up for in tips 95% of the time. If it isn't, the restaurant makes up for it.

Personally I think cheap people shouldn't eat out if they haven't figured the tip into the bill ahead of time. Most people who wait tables are students working to pay for school -- it fits their schedule.

Does that help?

Here's how I tip:
- 5% = Poor service
- 10% = OK service
- 15% = Good service
- 20% or more = Exceptional service

I judge a server's performance by their friendliness and attention to detail. It's pretty general but if you spend a lot of time dining out you get a feel for who deserves a good tip and who doesn't.

I´m glad that you are here to answer my question.

I hope you don´t mind me to ask you question bit more...

As I see that you was former manager of resturant. You can image how many customers visit your resturant a day to make you profit?

I would say the example:
The owner collect around $3,000 profit a day. It make the owner richer and hire waitress cheaply. Right? Waitresses work hard all the day to serve the customers and expect the tips from them. They will be offend if they did not receive tips enough from the customers which it´s no right. The owner are suppose to pay waitress due correct tarif because it´s them who hire waitresses, not customers.

Do the customers have to pay the tips to waitresses?
What if they are poor and can´t afford the tips?
What if tourists from world come to visit your country without know about tipping system in your country?
Can the tourist from world say NO to tips?

I notice some posts from any threads complaint about deafies´s low tips and insult them as tight which it´s not right. It´s human´s decision either they can tip or not.

I will be glad to get an answer from you. I´m European and didn´t use to tip to resturants like this because we dont have like this in Europe. I would be interesting to learn more about tipping system in your country.

Check this link about Germany culture... what we have in resturant, etc.
http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.ph...ermany+culture

Pvt. Parts · 07-06-2005, 11:02 PM

Liebling, I've been to Germany before and loved it there! We ate out quite a bit but didn't tip the waitresses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Do the customers have to pay the tips to waitresses?
What if they are poor and can´t afford the tips?
What if tourists from world come to visit your country without know about tipping system in your country?
Can the tourist from world say NO to tips?

I notice some posts from any threads complaint about deafies´s low tips and insult them as tight which it´s not right. It´s human´s decision either they can tip or not.

1) Customers do not have to tip the waittresses, but it is definitely frowned upon if you don't.

2) In America, poor people rarely dine out. If they do, it's typically fast-food such as McDonald's or Wendy's.

3) Tourists from other countries usually are aware of the American custom of tipping before they come here.

4) Tourists can decide not to tip. We can't make you, but it is considered rude.

You are right, it is a human being's decision to tip someone or not, but in our society, 99.9% of people tip.

Hope that helps!

Reba · 07-06-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Do the customers have to pay the tips to waitresses?
What if they are poor and can´t afford the tips?

If they are poor, why are they eating in a restaurant?

Lantana · 07-07-2005, 12:00 AM

Well I know alot of deafies who sit in Denny's restaurant half the night drinking coffee. They feel that Denny's is a gathering place for THEM and "too bad if they do not agree". > Perhaps the restaurant would help by asking them to leave after a decent amount of time. < If they are just drinking coffee, they do not feel the need to tip. 'Just an observation here from someone who has "been there".

European countries have some great ideas. I have heard that if you do not care for the outside of your home (the yard, etc), your taxes will be RAISED. And doctors do not earn huge salaries in Europe, they are supposed to be doctors to help the people , NOT to get rich. This is just what I heard, I would like to hear a discussion on it.

Liebling:-))) · 07-07-2005, 08:50 AM

Thank you for response my post. I appreciate it

It's interesting to learn about your culture.
wow you have been went to Germany... Which part you visited to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvt. Parts

Liebling, I've been to Germany before and loved it there! We ate out quite a bit but didn't tip the waitresses.

1) Customers do not have to tip the waittresses, but it is definitely frowned upon if you don't.

.. Normally the owner of the resturant should correct their employee's pay slip instead of rely on customers for tips. IMO

I take it only voluntarily to tip waitresses. It's sad that waitresses expect tips from the customers which they don't have to... I would front my boss to improve my salary if I were Waitress.

Yes, I can understand it's America custom.

Quote:

2) In America, poor people rarely dine out. If they do, it's typically fast-food such as McDonald's or Wendy's.

Well, we have few fast foods here in Germany. We are not rich but we still can visit to Greek, German, Indian and Italian resturants if we like to.

What's kind of resturants you have in America where the poor people can't afford?

Quote:

3) Tourists from other countries usually are aware of the American custom of tipping before they come here.

Yes, I guess so. I didn't know about American custom until I learn from here and there.
I beleive I will get the tip from Travel Agency about America custom after book for go to America. I remember that I got the tips from them before we leave for Sinpagore and Australia. .

Quote:

4) Tourists can decide not to tip. We can't make you, but it is considered rude.

You are right, it is a human being's decision to tip someone or not, but in our society, 99.9% of people tip.

Yes, I can understand that but I'm total surprise about American custom. I has to learn to accept their culture...

Quote:

Hope that helps!

Yes, but one thing you did not answer my question about the example over the owner who profit a lot of money a day in my previous post.

I will remember your tip... I will tip any resturants when I'm in America. I need Americans to teach me how to tip any resturants when I'm with them...

I hope my questions is not too much for you... ?

Liebling:-))) · 07-07-2005, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

If they are poor, why are they eating in a restaurant?

Well, I'm not rich but we still can go Greek, German, Italian, etc. resturants. We don't have much fast foods here in Germany.

We are normal people like you who can go to resturant... I mean is we are poor, not rich... right?

Liebling:-))) · 07-07-2005, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lantana

Well I know alot of deafies who sit in Denny's restaura

07-06-2005, 06:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,180	Tipping System I have to create a new thread over tipping system separate from other thread http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.ph...9&page=2&pp=20 because this issue over tipping is not relate to thread "I am angry with parent". I took some of posts as quote to here. I hope you all don't mind. Come to discuss with us why you think tipping is okay in your country... I notice that some of members here or other forums are angry with deaf tippers for give waitress/waiter little tip. I was like wow... because tipping system is not known in Germany. __________________ sniffing you

07-06-2005, 06:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,180	I didn´t know about America´s & Canada´s culture until I saw other forum of last year. I have to learn when I visit their country one day. Well, we (Europeans) only tipped hairdressers, taxi & Pizza driver, toilet (shopping mall), hotel porter for luggage carrier (voluntarily tipped) but resturant???? interesting... I visit any resturants with my family. I told waitresses to keep the change, that´s all. I never thought about 15% to 20% tipped like what members stated in their posts. wow! __________________ sniffing you

07-06-2005, 06:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kalista Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 7,283	Deaf people do not earn much money like hearing people. They did not have any money to pay 15% tip of that food worth. Yes, in this society American Deaf people have no idea how much waitress make very low wage per hour. They did not pay much tip of that 15% what they order. Last month, we went out to eat with 22 people at Italian Restruant. We figure out to slipt each of us like 186 dollars worth of food and drink. Plus tip 20 % because of appreciate how much waitress work very hard to sever us the food and learn sign language as friendly. I notice some of Deaf people said they do not have much money to pay the tip. They were complained what they order small food like sandwich no drink. They did not want to pay the tip. Grrrrrr Of course, they live on social security disability. That turns me off a big time !! __________________ Enjoy the summer as much as we can. The times will fly !

07-06-2005, 07:45 AM	#8 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,180	Here is my question again. But why can't the owner of resturants improve waitresses/waiters's wages instead of rely on their customers? The tipping system to any resturants are not known in Europe. __________________ sniffing you

07-07-2005, 12:00 AM	#20 (permalink)
Lantana Older and Wiser Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oregon Coast/Washington Coast/Hawaii Posts: 385	Tipping Well I know alot of deafies who sit in Denny's restaurant half the night drinking coffee. They feel that Denny's is a gathering place for THEM and "too bad if they do not agree". > Perhaps the restaurant would help by asking them to leave after a decent amount of time. < If they are just drinking coffee, they do not feel the need to tip. 'Just an observation here from someone who has "been there". European countries have some great ideas. I have heard that if you do not care for the outside of your home (the yard, etc), your taxes will be RAISED. And doctors do not earn huge salaries in Europe, they are supposed to be doctors to help the people , NOT to get rich. This is just what I heard, I would like to hear a discussion on it. __________________ "The best things in life are not things."

Today
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07-06-2005, 06:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
diehardbiker Busy in poker room Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,883	Hey, main reason for tipping usually because there are several positions in the United States offer ultra-low wages, so that is why tipping is needed to make up the difference between dirty low wage and normal wages. In fact regular minimum wage here is $6.10 an hour, I think and that most waitress only gets $2.90 an hour!!! many deafies don't realize that because they never work there before. This goes same thing to the pizza delivery drivers too! 2.90 an hour is NOT enough to cover the gas cost! That is why they need tip. In fact people who gives good tips tend to get BETTER service than others that don't give tip at all.

07-06-2005, 07:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
diehardbiker Busy in poker room Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,883	Really in either way, no tip, meaning food on menu will be even cost more to cover the wage for the waitress, OR make food on menu cheaper, and let waitress earn tip based on their performance. I would rather go on tipping route so I can decide how much waitress actually worth the money for their time. If Waitress did rotten job, I just put in a quarter to show him or her that I DO tip, and you don't deserve better tip because of your poor service. That is how I do, always works for me. Money have to come from somewhere anyhow. No one gets rich for nothing.

07-06-2005, 08:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,923	Leibling, I can ask you a similar question: Why don't owners pay more to people who assist you in restrooms in Germany? That is unheard of here in the USA except maybe for VERY upscale hotels....

07-06-2005, 09:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,923	You would be surprised how much good waitresses make, especially in the better eateries. I am a good tipper; but for the ordinary, run-of-the-mill places, I tip double the sales tax which comes to about 16% cuz California's sales tax is 7.75% so I round that off to 8 and double it.

07-06-2005, 01:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pvt. Parts Get Up Stand Up Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 117	As a former manager in a restaurant, I may be able to answer your question, Liebling. The reason the wage is so low for servers is because it is classified as a sales position, and our government allows this because they know that what isn't paid in wages is more than made up for in tips 95% of the time. If it isn't, the restaurant makes up for it. Personally I think cheap people shouldn't eat out if they haven't figured the tip into the bill ahead of time. Most people who wait tables are students working to pay for school -- it fits their schedule. Does that help? Here's how I tip: - 5% = Poor service - 10% = OK service - 15% = Good service - 20% or more = Exceptional service I judge a server's performance by their friendliness and attention to detail. It's pretty general but if you spend a lot of time dining out you get a feel for who deserves a good tip and who doesn't.