Auditory-verbal therapy research claims

[shel90]

As a parent who raised an oral child, I have to tell you that you are way off base if you think that is the thought process parents go through. Briefly, while we made a decision to raise our daughter orally, we never ruled out sign as an option but in her case, once she got her ci her language development just exploded and never stoped. Also, whenever signs were introduced to her in therapy, she just had no interest in them, she wanted to hear the words not see them. At that point in time, what needs she would require later in school was furthest from our minds but once she reached school we fought for all the special needs she deserved.

How old is your daughter? I find that interesting cuz my 17 month old son is hearing and he hasnt "spoken" his first word but expresses himself using several signs. That sentence just made me realize that about my son. He is in a spoken environment all day while I work and in an signing environment in the evenings and weekends. He signs to everyone even our family members who dont know sign so they are learning from him. My mother in law keeps bringing up her concerns that he will be delayed in language and I told her that he is developing language through signing and she said that is impossible. I guess she doesnt get it. *sighs*

Just thought it is interesting how young children can prefer one language over another. I wonder if the same happens in multi-language families like Spanish and English-speaking families?

 

[rick48]

Shel,

My daughter is now 20 so I am reaching back in time remembering how it was but she just never liked to get clues visually but auditorily. Even in school she learns best auditorily, yes great for a profoundly deaf child, not visiually. Although she has always been a phenominal lip reader but when she was starting out, her s&l therapist would always introduce the sounds with either signs or visual clues but she would say the sound but never the sign.

 

[jillio]

Nice try but really your tactic of labeling anyone who does not agree with you as either defensive, insecure or both is growing stale.

If you had bothered to read the post you would clearly see that I was asking DD to state who she feels is an audist parent.

The behavior that prompts the comment is growing stale!

 

[jillio]

I am never said anyone is audist here..

Yeah, I know. Someone who is very defensive twisted remarks and came up with that interpretation.

 

[jillio]

It's always great to hear about the exceptions, /QUOTE]

You mention "exceptions" frequently. Exactly what do you mean by an "exception"? What makes a deaf child an "exception" as you use the term?

That's fairly self explanatory if you will go back and read the posts. Exception is quantified quite clearly.

 

[jillio]

I think your offense is misplaced. I did not read Boult's comments to imply it was the students who were "below average in intelligence" rather that the curriculum was. In fact, that is a common complaint I hear from parents and students of Deaf schools and when we were looking at schools for our daughter, it was a reality.

Curriculum wasn't mentioned. And the majority of Deaf schools in operation today are held to the same state mandated standards as any other public school. The private Deaf schools often have even higher standards than the public schools.

 

[jillio]

The deaf school where I work at uses the public school curriculm so is it the wrong curriculm? This is what I dont get...why blame the schools? Maybe it is the influx of children coming from mainstreamed programs that fell so far behind and we have to work hard with them to catch up. Unfortunately, many of them lost motivation to learn due to struggling. The school where my brother works at have a large population of deaf children from Spanish speaking families who are pratically illiterate themselves. Why not look at other variables instead of just at the schools or teachers themselves?

Exactly. Since the concept of the "least restrictive environment" is interpreted to equal "mainstreaming" the majority of students sent to a Deaf school are those that have been mainstream failures, either academically, or behaviorally. That places the Deaf schools in the position of functioning as remedial placement to make up for inadequacies in the mainstream. How many of the mainstream students would have thrived academically and socially had they been placed in a Deaf educational environment from the start? You cannot blame the Deaf schools for the mainstream failures. The heart of it all is the failure to recognize deafness as a cultural and linguistic difference and that placement in the mainstream, where deaf students are restricted from effective communication with peers and teachers is the MOST restrictive environment, not the LEAST.

 

[shel90]

Exactly. Since the concept of the "least restrictive environment" is interpreted to equal "mainstreaming" the majority of students sent to a Deaf school are those that have been mainstream failures, either academically, or behaviorally. That places the Deaf schools in the position of functioning as remedial placement to make up for inadequacies in the mainstream. How many of the mainstream students would have thrived academically and socially had they been placed in a Deaf educational environment from the start? You cannot blame the Deaf schools for the mainstream failures. The heart of it all is the failure to recognize deafness as a cultural and linguistic difference and that placement in the mainstream, where deaf students are restricted from effective communication with peers and teachers is the MOST restrictive environment, not the LEAST.

Oh gosh..LRE...a good idea for other children with special needs but a bad idea for deaf kids. BAD idea! Even with interpretors, deaf children still are not getting LRE...

 

[jillio]

In light of the recent "colorful" discussion, here's a good question that comes to mind.

How many people here who identify as a proponent of residential education will not only accept but also encourage implantation?

Additionally . . .

How many people here who identify as a proponent of pediatric implantation will not only accept but also encourage development of a "D"eaf identity, ASL, and such?

I'm interested in seeing how many people are willing to strafe both sides, because I'm wondering how many of us are polarized.

This, of course is based on what I have personally observed at one particular Deaf school, so it isn't really generalizable; but the school my son attended had several students who were implanted, many of them pediatric implantations. All of these children also signed, and all of these parents also signed. The ones that I am still in contact with three years later are very connected to the Deaf community, use ASL as their primary mode of communication, but are capable of and will code switch to PSE or speech when necessary to facilitate communication. If you ask them how they ID, they will tell you as Deaf.

I personally believe that these young adults have been able to find their identity and become comfortable with it because they spent those years in an environment that was supportive and challenging (the Deaf school). The parents have been allowed to see first hand the benefits to their children, and as a consequence, support the kids id as Deaf.

Many, many children who were raised as oral, and had relatively successful academic careers through high school have experiences in college or after their education that places them in a position, for the first time, of having actual contact with the deaf community and their language. These are people that have been judged as oral successes, have been able to function in a hearing world, yet when they are finally exposed tothe Deaf community and sign language experience a great sense of having missed out on something alll of their lives. These are the deaf adults that make comments such as, "My parents gave me a good life and did everything they could to make things easier for me, but I always felt different. I never felt that I fit in." When they find the Deaf community and the language that is theirs by birthright, they find the part of their identity that makes them whole. This board is full of posters who were not raised with exposure to the signing Deaf community, yet have found it as adults. And they are all grateful for having done so. Why do we continue to insist that our deaf children do not need this experience? Why are we, as parents willing to settle for providing our children with less than is required for optimal development? It seems that we are willing to settle for any superficial sign of success--my child speaks, my child doesn't need sign, my child is reading well in public school--and ignore that these are only surface measurements? We do this over and over with our kids, and then, when the kids grow up and gravitate toward the signing Deaf community, or marry another deaf individual, we are surprized. Wake up, people. Deaf children are people first, deaf second. They have the same socialization and emotional needs as any other child. They need acceptance, and self esteem, and the message that they are valuable, and their value is not dependent upon their ability to superficially appear to be something they are not. They need to develop their identity at an age appropriate time, and not when they are 25 or more years old. Without it, no other form of therapy or assistive devise will make any changes in the lives of these kids. Being able to speak, having a CI, using HA--none of it makes for a happy well adjusted adult when the focus is always on the deafness because then the focus is always on what is missing.

 

[shel90]

Curriculum wasn't mentioned. And the majority of Deaf schools in operation today are held to the same state mandated standards as any other public school. The private Deaf schools often have even higher standards than the public schools.

and many of these students are bright too!!! By stating that they are "below than average intelligence" is saying that my brother's intelligence level is lower than the general population. I think he is a lot smarter than many of us to have to pick up a new language at the age of 5 so quickly in a year and then achieve adequate literacy skills. If he was "below than average" then he wouldnt be in grad school at a HEARING college!

 

[jillio]

How old is your daughter? I find that interesting cuz my 17 month old son is hearing and he hasnt "spoken" his first word but expresses himself using several signs. That sentence just made me realize that about my son. He is in a spoken environment all day while I work and in an signing environment in the evenings and weekends. He signs to everyone even our family members who dont know sign so they are learning from him. My mother in law keeps bringing up her concerns that he will be delayed in language and I told her that he is developing language through signing and she said that is impossible. I guess she doesnt get it. *sighs*

Just thought it is interesting how young children can prefer one language over another. I wonder if the same happens in multi-language families like Spanish and English-speaking families?

Kids have an uncanny knack for intuiting context. Like, a child who is exposed to Spanish at home will speak Spanish in that environment, yet will speak fluent English in school. You son knows that sign is the language of his home. He's a bit young to get the connection between thelanguage that is spoken in your home and the language htat is spoken elsewhere. He only knows that when he signs, he is able to connect with others and make his needs and thoughts known. He is certainly not language delayed, nor will he be. He is grasping the true purpose of language--communication and connection to others.

 

[jillio]

Oh gosh..LRE...a good idea for other children with special needs but a bad idea for deaf kids. BAD idea! Even with interpretors, deaf children still are not getting LRE...

Right. And when that is finally recognized by the hearing educators, and the kid is transferred to a deaf environment, it is the deaf school that gets blamed!

 

[jillio]

and many of these students are bright too!!! By stating that they are "below than average intelligence" is saying that my brother's intelligence level is lower than the general population. I think he is a lot smarter than many of us to have to pick up a new language at the age of 5 so quickly in a year and then achieve adequate literacy skills. If he was "below than average" then he wouldnt be in grad school at a HEARING college!

Exactly. And that is why I find the too smart, or not smart enough mind set insulting!

 

[shel90]

This, of course is based on what I have personally observed at one particular Deaf school, so it isn't really generalizable; but the school my son attended had several students who were implanted, many of them pediatric implantations. All of these children also signed, and all of these parents also signed. The ones that I am still in contact with three years later are very connected to the Deaf community, use ASL as their primary mode of communication, but are capable of and will code switch to PSE or speech when necessary to facilitate communication. If you ask them how they ID, they will tell you as Deaf.

I personally believe that these young adults have been able to find their identity and become comfortable with it because they spent those years in an environment that was supportive and challenging (the Deaf school). The parents have been allowed to see first hand the benefits to their children, and as a consequence, support the kids id as Deaf.

Many, many children who were raised as oral, and had relatively successful academic careers through high school have experiences in college or after their education that places them in a position, for the first time, of having actual contact with the deaf community and their language. These are people that have been judged as oral successes, have been able to function in a hearing world, yet when they are finally exposed tothe Deaf community and sign language experience a great sense of having missed out on something alll of their lives. These are the deaf adults that make comments such as, "My parents gave me a good life and did everything they could to make things easier for me, but I always felt different. I never felt that I fit in." When they find the Deaf community and the language that is theirs by birthright, they find the part of their identity that makes them whole. This board is full of posters who were not raised with exposure to the signing Deaf community, yet have found it as adults. And they are all grateful for having done so. Why do we continue to insist that our deaf children do not need this experience? Why are we, as parents willing to settle for providing our children with less than is required for optimal development? It seems that we are willing to settle for any superficial sign of success--my child speaks, my child doesn't need sign, my child is reading well in public school--and ignore that these are only surface measurements? We do this over and over with our kids, and then, when the kids grow up and gravitate toward the signing Deaf community, or marry another deaf individual, we are surprized. Wake up, people. Deaf children are people first, deaf second. They have the same socialization and emotional needs as any other child. They need acceptance, and self esteem, and the message that they are valuable, and their value is not dependent upon their ability to superficially appear to be something they are not. They need to develop their identity at an age appropriate time, and not when they are 25 or more years old. Without it, no other form of therapy or assistive devise will make any changes in the lives of these kids. Being able to speak, having a CI, using HA--none of it makes for a happy well adjusted adult when the focus is always on the deafness because then the focus is always on what is missing.

Wow...I was always constantly reminded of my shortcomings due to my deafness...no wonder I was doing all these self-destructive behaviors in my teens and early adulthood ..I was trying to fill in the missing void cuz I identified myself as "hearing" but couldnt meet the standards.

I get flashbacks or minor anxiety attacks when I have to be around a large group of hearing people like my husband's work parties or whatever. I wonder if I was exposed to ASL or understood that I was deaf and it was ok , maybe I would feel more comfortable in a non-signing environment? Does that make sense?

 

[shel90]

Kids have an uncanny knack for intuiting context. Like, a child who is exposed to Spanish at home will speak Spanish in that environment, yet will speak fluent English in school. You son knows that sign is the language of his home. He's a bit young to get the connection between thelanguage that is spoken in your home and the language htat is spoken elsewhere. He only knows that when he signs, he is able to connect with others and make his needs and thoughts known. He is certainly not language delayed, nor will he be. He is grasping the true purpose of language--communication and connection to others.

Believe me, I know he is not delayed in language ..just other people think he is because he hasnt spoken his first word yet. It makes me laugh...here, I am working with deaf children with language delays and people are saying my son is language delayed? Just kinda funny..

 

[jillio]

Wow...I was always constantly reminded of my shortcomings due to my deafness...no wonder I was doing all these self-destructive behaviors in my teens and early adulthood ..I was trying to fill in the missing void cuz I identified myself as "hearing" but couldnt meet the standards.

I get flashbacks or minor anxiety attacks when I have to be around a large group of hearing people like my husband's work parties or whatever. I wonder if I was exposed to ASL or understood that I was deaf and it was ok , maybe I would feel more comfortable in a non-signing environment? Does that make sense?

Makes a lot of sense. You are not uncomfortable with the use of oral language in these situations. You are uncomfortable because your past experience is that you have been judged harshly because your skills weren't on the same level as a hearing persons. You know, on one level, that you are every bit as capable and intelligent as any hearing person, but your past experience of being judged unfairly comes creeping back in to undermine your confidence.

 

[rick48]

That's fairly self explanatory if you will go back and read the posts. Exception is quantified quite clearly.

If you mean deaf children implanted when they are young who recieve some form of oral therapy, that is reinforced at home who acquire spoken language as their primary mode of communication then you are mistaken if you think these kids are the exception to the rule.

If you mean something else by "exception" then please state so.

 

[shel90]

Kids have an uncanny knack for intuiting context. Like, a child who is exposed to Spanish at home will speak Spanish in that environment, yet will speak fluent English in school. You son knows that sign is the language of his home. He's a bit young to get the connection between thelanguage that is spoken in your home and the language htat is spoken elsewhere. He only knows that when he signs, he is able to connect with others and make his needs and thoughts known. He is certainly not language delayed, nor will he be. He is grasping the true purpose of language--communication and connection to others.

My daughter is not fluent in ASL because I became fluent at it when she was about 5 years old and started using it with her. She signs in SEE..It will be interesting if my son will be more fluent in ASL at the age she is now (10 years old) because he has been exposed to it since birth. We'll see. My work is having an open BOT forum in May to discuss opening a daycare or admit hearing kids in pre-school. If it gets approved, I will put my son there so fast!

 

[jillio]

My daughter is not fluent in ASL because I became fluent at it when she was about 5 years old and started using it with her. She signs in SEE..It will be interesting if my son will be more fluent in ASL at the age she is now (10 years old) because he has been exposed to it since birth. We'll see. My work is having an open BOT forum in May to discuss opening a daycare or admit hearing kids in pre-school. If it gets approved, I will put my son there so fast!

Yeah, makes sense. Your daughter's first model was sign supported English, so for her, that is the language spoken at home. She doesn't even think about it, just lapses into it when placed in that environment.

Wow! I think admitting hearing kids into the preschool is great. At St. Rita's. they have the LOFT program (Language Opportunites for Toddlers). They have both deaf and hearing kids, and both deaf and hearing instructors. Some of the kids are siblings of deaf St. Rital students, some are hearing of deaf parents. Some are kids who are enrolled just because they have very open minded parents who want their kids to experience diversity. Any way, the program is hugely successful, and the kids really benefit from the exposure to both languages. Its amazing to watch the deaf and hearing kids interact. They just do whatever is necessary to communicate with each other, and don't divide into hearing/not hearing groups. If left to that kind of environment, they just adapt naturally and it all works out well. Unfortunately, it is too often us adults that find it necessary to divide based on hearing/not hearing or oral/sign and the kids begin to imitate our attitudes and behavior. Good luck wit the preschool. I'll be interested to know what happens.

 

[jillio]

If you mean deaf children implanted when they are young who recieve some form of oral therapy, that is reinforced at home who acquire spoken language as their primary mode of communication then you are mistaken if you think these kids are the exception to the rule.

If you mean something else by "exception" then please state so.

Wow! Run on sentence! By exception, I mean the oral child who is equally successful when judged by hearing standards on all levels--socially, educationally, emotionally, adjustment, economically, etc.