Were you lied by schools and/or parents that you were "hearing?" - Page 4

Sunshine · 08-13-2011, 11:03 PM

Uhoh. Fighting words...

Berry · 08-13-2011, 11:04 PM

Neither deaf nor a parent of deaf

But

The fact the attitude the OP is talking about is still in full force is an incident I have related before.

We were signing in a large store when the parents of a two year old girl came up and asked us to "stop doing that" because their daughter was deaf and they did not want her "contaminated" by being exposed to signed language.

Why?

Because they wanted her to grow up to be a "normal" child with a normal childhood.

This was in Northern California a short while before I joined AllDeaf.

**Jiro** · 08-13-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

then stop posting. You are a hearing parent!

has she ever answered OP's question for her deaf child?

**Bottesini** · 08-13-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

has she ever answered OP's question for her deaf child?

No she hasn't! And I think I may need new dental crowns from my teeth grinding in irritation at all the provoking posts!

jillio · 08-13-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

then stop posting. You are a hearing parent!

I'm not answering the OP's question, either. I am correctly clarifying what the OP is looking for. STFU

jillio · 08-13-2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

has she ever answered OP's question for her deaf child?

No, and I would never presume to.

**Jiro** · 08-13-2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

No she hasn't! And I think I may need new dental crowns from my teeth grinding in irritation at all the provoking posts!

we need a new smilies - the one that burst out in laughter with eyes popping out cuz it was just too much

rebeccalj · 08-13-2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It is really telling that the OP is asking for responses from the D/deaf who have experienced the educational environment as a deaf child yet a couple of hearing parents have to jump in and start defending their decisions and their beliefs regarding their children. Can't even let the D/deaf respond and accept that their responses are valid and worthwhile in determining policy for the deaf.

Stop it you two. This is not a thread for you to justify your decisions for your deaf children, who are too young, but the way, to even respond to this request. This is a thread for the deaf to state what their perceptions were as deaf children. Let the deaf answer and save your defensiveness for another thread.

Present company excluded? but this is *SO* typical. The hearing trying to speak for the Deaf. It's like a compulsion for them.

Sad thing is they'll never get it either.

Sunshine · 08-13-2011, 11:31 PM

Dallas wonders if it's ok he can answer this too?

He is 21, Canada. He says his answer similar like mine only his family all Deaf. He never had his family try force him to talk with voice, but many teachers did. He chooses to talk with voice with hearies sometimes, and his teachers every year try put him in speech therapy to make his voice sound like hearie.

Bebonang · 08-13-2011, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny_signs

Dallas wonders if it's ok he can answer this too?

He is 21, Canada. He says his answer similar like mine only his family all Deaf. He never had his family try force him to talk with voice, but many teachers did. He chooses to talk with voice with hearies sometimes, and his teachers every year try put him in speech therapy to make his voice sound like hearie.

Was he in the Deaf school when he was forced to talk to make the sound like a hearie?

rebeccalj · 08-13-2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

In that case, I don't think my parents fit the OP. They DID start ASL and prolly would have opted for Deaf program (there is a local one where I live) However, they were advised by dumbassed doctors that it would be better for me to be oral and mainstreamed.
I do remember an IEP meeting from when I was little where the IEP team claimed I wasn't really deaf.
I was a front row, FM device, speech therapy (no lanugage therapy beyond kindergarten) kid.

Things like read this just piss me off! These yahoo "so called experts" influence parents who don't know any different and just want the best for their child!

In my case my parents just decide that I'm a hearie and a hearie I will be. Too much work for them to do ASL and Deaf culture.

Sunshine · 08-13-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bebonang

Was he in the Deaf school when he was forced to talk to make the sound like a hearie?

Not a deaf school only, but a school of mostly special needs kids. It has 700 kids and 100 teachers. It was a school from kindergarten to grade 7.

CSign · 08-13-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

Neither deaf nor a parent of deaf

But

The fact the attitude the OP is talking about is still in full force is an incident I have related before.

We were signing in a large store when the parents of a two year old girl came up and asked us to "stop doing that" because their daughter was deaf and they did not want her "contaminated" by being exposed to signed language.

Why?

Because they wanted her to grow up to be a "normal" child with a normal childhood.
This was in Northern California a short while before I joined AllDeaf.

That's really sad. I feel sorry for that little girl.

rebeccalj · 08-13-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

you are a hearing parent and you were the first person to respond! Irony much?

again, as soon as you leave i will.

Because she is actually a Deaf spokesperson and advocate. What are you?

rebeccalj · 08-13-2011, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

Really? My post answering on behalf of my child and gently suggesting that the OP's question is a bit value-laden and presupposes that being told one is "normal" is bad and confuses identity later in life is somehow stopping others from answering? But you've posted a few more times than I, and you are a hearing parent, too -- and yet you, a hearing parent, responded on behalf of others before we joined you, and responded on behalf of our deaf children, having, unlike you, first hand knowledge of what was conveyed. And we didn't defend ourselves, we fully acknowledged that we committed this act of misleading our children to think they are what the OP termed "normal/regular".

You are mistaken. You never joined her. You, and your hearing parent friends, attack a Deaf advocate. You are *not* an advocate. You are just a poster in sheep's clothing who *thinks* they are.

Of course we appreciate her posts. She has insight that you and the *others* clearly lack.

Sunshine · 08-13-2011, 11:50 PM

Jillio is cool, and accepted by Deafies as "one of us".

Bebonang · 08-13-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny_signs

Not a deaf school only, but a school of mostly special needs kids. It has 700 kids and 100 teachers. It was a school from kindergarten to grade 7.

Thank you for clearing up for me.

So it is a mainstream school for Special Ed for kids. Wow, that is a lot of kids and teachers for Special needs.

rebeccalj · 08-14-2011, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

I did not feel confused being in mainstream class, I hated staying back in school and being made to feel I was stupid because I could not hear. My parents where too clueless to even think of what happening to me in school. I was put in special ed class as I did not pass fifth grade. I was more concerned about not getting hit at home than anything growing up. I did not have time to be confused , I just trying to hold myself together.

That's horrible!!

BecLak · 08-14-2011, 04:10 AM

Wirelessly posted

48 Aussie in Thailand raised oral and mainstreamed. My parents were told that hearing aids would 'fix' everything and that I would be 'hearing' like everyone. We were never informed of the Deaf community or sign language. I had become yet another 'guinea pig' of hearing society. Both myself and my parents regret we were not given options.

**Smithtr** · 08-14-2011, 09:00 AM

I was upset because my teacher abused me threaten because school because don't tell parents not fair because manuplite horrible because abused expression forced me slap ! I am neutral because blamed hurting I want sue to interpreter serious risk angry influence me I am children innocent ruin my attention because It is very not respect to behavior stop it complain! I said don't care because she grumpy because grin pissed off whoa terrible I am numerous because I told my family don't know what is happened screw up I ruin my interpreter not respect I was younger

O*I*C · 08-14-2011, 09:11 AM

31, Ohio and no special accomadations were made for me. Not even front row seating in school. I was led to believe that I was just slightly hard of hearing my whole life until recently when I became active in the Deaf community and began to learn sign and realized that a profound/severe loss is not even close to being equal to a slight hearing loss like I grew up thinking.

I am still amazed that there is a much easier way for me to communicate with other individuals by using ASL. The impact it made on my life when I found this out was tremendous. Going to events, meeting other people like myself and not struggling to communicate with them, now I finally feel "normal".

sarahkhan · 08-14-2011, 10:02 AM

Hmm....Is this research for specific country? I mean I live in a different country from most of you(That is california, or canada or Usa...like that I dont live it there)

If it is for general then,

What I make out from your post that.. whether I was led to believe that I can be perfectly communicate just like hearing people...is that what you mean? If so, then my answer is yes.
YES
Age 19
Dhaka(It is in Bangladesh)

Babyblue · 08-14-2011, 10:37 AM

Hmmm.. OP has not come back with any clarification or whatnot.

jillio · 08-14-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyblue

Hmmm.. OP has not come back with any clarification or whatnot.

She is probably waiting while data collects. She needs several responses for it to be useful for her.

Either that, or the hearing parents made her say, "This ain't worth the hassel!"

jazzy · 08-14-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddellmotter

Reason I am asking this particular question is I need to gather statistics/percentage of how many of you experienced this as part of my data collection.

I am a Deaf School Psychologist at Indiana Deaf School and part of my research is to determine how many of you were a "victim" of being mislead to being a "normal/regular," "hearing," or "hearing-like?" while growing up. Just reply YES, your age (if comfortable with it), and which state you are in. I am going to get a good percentage by the end of this week (August 19th).

Terri

Is this only for deaf born people? I became deaf at age 2 and half for this I am not victim of being lied by my parents. I am victim in different way but not like this.

50/Calif count me out of this one. Interest about being lied by their parents.

jillio · 08-14-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

Is this only for deaf born people? I became deaf at age 2 and half for this I am not victim of being lied by my parents. I am victim in different way but not like this.

50/Calif count me out of this one. Interest about being lied by their parents.

You would fit into this category because you were deaf all through school and prelingually so.

What she is asking for is not so much a lie as in actually being told an untrue statement, but of being given that impression by teachers and parents and other adults in your life by things that were said and done.

Jazzberry · 08-14-2011, 02:40 PM

I just caught up in the thread and I’d just like to comment about the word “average”.

The thing about the word "average" is that it has different meanings depending upon whether one is talking about statistics or just shooting the breeze with your friends.

Statistically all that average means is the mean. (E.g., the mean of the numbers: 1, 2, 7, 8 is (1+2+7+8)/4 = 18/4 = 4.5 )

But when shooting the breeze with your friends average often means ‘not weird.’

In this case Twaddellmotter was talking about doing a statistical survey so I just assumed that she was using some words with their statistical and not every day meaning. As per her OP:

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaddellmotter

Reason I am asking this particular question is I need to gather statistics/percentage of how many of you experienced this as part of my data collection.

I am a Deaf School Psychologist at Indiana Deaf School and part of my research is to determine how many of you were a "victim" of being mislead to being a "normal/regular," "hearing," or "hearing-like?" while growing up. Just reply YES, your age (if comfortable with it), and which state you are in. I am going to get a good percentage by the end of this week (August 19th).

Terri

It can definitely get confusing when you're dealing with numbers in a study about people and the conversation is happening between people who use statistics often and people who don't. And it may be likely that the everyday meaning of "average" has an undesirable unconscious effect that creeps up slowly over time on some doctors, psychologists, audiologists and others since they constantly use words while discussing their clients’ audiological results that have a neutral meaning in statistics but a negative one in everyday language. So probably it would be better if the word average stopped being used in statistics. That would definitely get my vote!

--

And the word "normal" has the same issues.

Again, depends upon if you are discussing statistical survey results or just shooting the breeze. Let's say we were talking about my neighbors -- some of my neighbors are not normal!

In a statistical survey, well heck, my memory about statistics is just too rusty for me to try to give a precise explanation about that. I vaguely recall it has to do with how results are distributed around the mean, with the more common results being closer to the mean and the less common ones far away. So to get back to the OP -- severe hearing loss and deafness are rare and not “normal” -- in the statistical sense and not the everyday sense of the word, “normal.”

Again, because statistics is often used when studying people I personally think it would be great if a word that didn’t also have a meaning in everyday English could be used to replace “normal” when discussing statistical studies.

Much easier suggested than done though.

Grummer · 08-14-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

There you go. Being given the impression that you would grow up just like hearing. And it doesn't have to be said explicitly. Many kids are given this message as much by the decisions parents make, and the things they refuse to do as by actual statements.

hey, could you please clarify the bolded part? im not sure what you mean sincerely i dont get it, to me its like 'parents say this but they refuse to do anything else and expect their child to conform and somehow miraclely 'become hearing' is this what you meant?

have to be abit more honest here too, my mum worked hard to make /help me talk and tried, BUT she did failed alot too, like when i got teased in schools, or punished for fighting - all i got was 'ignore the kids' she never taught me how to stand up to say what, but would rather have me in denial. THis angered me for years to come, because basically this seems to be what you're saying as in 'refusing to do anything else' letting the deaf kids suffer the consequences of being deaf in the hearing world, feeling guilty about it or not because 'at the time there was no where to turn for advice' BUT there were Deaf adviors for Deaf children (sic) the bastards...that's another story...

sorry just had to get thi bit clarifed and at same time, i shared abit in bid to see if im understanding where youre coming from to 'fit' with my understanding of my past experiences (i dont understand it all fully - yet - as I have other committments (scholarly) right now ... just an 'intellectual 'itch' here i had to rub it off..then move on and id come back to it later on...get my drift?

jillio · 08-14-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzberry

I just caught up in the thread and I’d just like to comment about the word “average”.

The thing about the word "average" is that it has different meanings depending upon whether one is talking about statistics or just shooting the breeze with your friends.

Statistically all that average means is the mean. (E.g., the mean of the numbers: 1, 2, 7, 8 is (1+2+7+8)/4 = 18/4 = 4.5 )

But when shooting the breeze with your friends average often means ‘not weird.’

In this case Twaddellmotter was talking about doing a statistical survey so I just assumed that she was using some words with their statistical and not every day meaning. As per her OP:

It can definitely get confusing when you're dealing with numbers in a study about people and the conversation is happening between people who use statistics often and people who don't. And it may be likely that the everyday meaning of "average" has an undesirable unconscious effect that creeps up slowly over time on some doctors, psychologists, audiologists and others since they constantly use words while discussing their clients’ audiological results that have a neutral meaning in statistics but a negative one in everyday language. So probably it would be better if the word average stopped being used in statistics. That would definitely get my vote!

--

And the word "normal" has the same issues.

Again, depends upon if you are discussing statistical survey results or just shooting the breeze. Let's say we were talking about my neighbors -- some of my neighbors are not normal!

In a statistical survey, well heck, my memory about statistics is just too rusty for me to try to give a precise explanation about that. I vaguely recall it has to do with how results are distributed around the mean, with the more common results being closer to the mean and the less common ones far away. So to get back to the OP -- severe hearing loss and deafness is rare and not “normal” -- in the statistical sense and not the everyday sense of the word, “normal.”

Again, because statistics is often used when studying people I personally think it would be great if a word that didn’t also have a meaning in everyday English could be used to replace “normal” when discussing statistical studies.

Much easier suggested than done though.

What words would you use in a statistical application as a replacement for average and norm?

I don't think it is so much the words, as it is the overly defensive attitude of seeing everything as an insult directed toward hearing parents that a few seem to have. I don't think it is necessary to change the professional vocab of an entire profession based on those few.

**deafskeptic** · 08-14-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You would fit into this category because you were deaf all through school and prelingually so.

What she is asking for is not so much a lie as in actually being told an untrue statement, but of being given that impression by teachers and parents and other adults in your life by things that were said and done.

I think the same applies to me. I have not forgotten the time my Spanish teacher told me that since I had the Phonic Ear and the other deaf guy didn't have it was no excuse for me not being able to understand spoken Spanish like the rest of the class since he was able to follow it. This was after I pointed out to her that he could hear better than me. I got in trouble for saying that.

I never was good at understanding speech without lipreading and i was expected to learn how to speak Spanish from watching Goldocks and the 3 bears in spoken Spanish. Plus it takes much longer for me to understand spoken foreign language than it does for most people.

08-13-2011, 11:03 PM	#91 (permalink)
Sunshine Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Home of Canucks! Posts: 3,269 Blog Entries: 2	Uhoh. Fighting words... rebeccalj likes this.

08-13-2011, 11:04 PM	#92 (permalink)
Berry Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oroville, Ca. Posts: 2,024	Neither deaf nor a parent of deaf But The fact the attitude the OP is talking about is still in full force is an incident I have related before. We were signing in a large store when the parents of a two year old girl came up and asked us to "stop doing that" because their daughter was deaf and they did not want her "contaminated" by being exposed to signed language. Why? Because they wanted her to grow up to be a "normal" child with a normal childhood. This was in Northern California a short while before I joined AllDeaf. deafdyke, jillio, deafskeptic and 3 others like this. __________________ Free Jillio! Living life in the sandbox.

08-13-2011, 11:31 PM	#99 (permalink)
Sunshine Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Home of Canucks! Posts: 3,269 Blog Entries: 2	Dallas wonders if it's ok he can answer this too? He is 21, Canada. He says his answer similar like mine only his family all Deaf. He never had his family try force him to talk with voice, but many teachers did. He chooses to talk with voice with hearies sometimes, and his teachers every year try put him in speech therapy to make his voice sound like hearie. jillio, Berry, KristinaB and 1 others like this.

08-13-2011, 11:50 PM	#106 (permalink)
Sunshine Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Home of Canucks! Posts: 3,269 Blog Entries: 2	Jillio is cool, and accepted by Deafies as "one of us". deafdyke, Smithtr, jillio and 4 others like this.

08-14-2011, 04:10 AM	#109 (permalink)
BecLak Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 2,116	Wirelessly posted 48 Aussie in Thailand raised oral and mainstreamed. My parents were told that hearing aids would 'fix' everything and that I would be 'hearing' like everyone. We were never informed of the Deaf community or sign language. I had become yet another 'guinea pig' of hearing society. Both myself and my parents regret we were not given options. jillio, Berry, KristinaB and 1 others like this. __________________ Severely deaf from birth. Deaf with a Purpose. God designed me this way so I do everything by God's Grace. Exodus 4:11 Ignorance is no longer bliss. Be Educated. KEEP IN STEP WITH ME: Sign Text Email Pen and Paper

Today
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08-14-2011, 09:00 AM	#110 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,684	I was upset because my teacher abused me threaten because school because don't tell parents not fair because manuplite horrible because abused expression forced me slap ! I am neutral because blamed hurting I want sue to interpreter serious risk angry influence me I am children innocent ruin my attention because It is very not respect to behavior stop it complain! I said don't care because she grumpy because grin pissed off whoa terrible I am numerous because I told my family don't know what is happened screw up I ruin my interpreter not respect I was younger __________________

08-14-2011, 09:11 AM	#111 (permalink)
OIC Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 61	31, Ohio and no special accomadations were made for me. Not even front row seating in school. I was led to believe that I was just slightly hard of hearing my whole life until recently when I became active in the Deaf community and began to learn sign and realized that a profound/severe loss is *not even close* to being equal to a slight hearing loss like I grew up thinking. I am still amazed that there is a much easier way for me to communicate with other individuals by using ASL. The impact it made on my life when I found this out was tremendous. Going to events, meeting other people like myself and not struggling to communicate with them, now I finally feel "normal". deafdyke, posts from hell, jillio and 4 others like this.

08-14-2011, 10:02 AM	#112 (permalink)
sarahkhan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 61	Hmm....Is this research for specific country? I mean I live in a different country from most of you(That is california, or canada or Usa...like that I dont live it there) If it is for general then, What I make out from your post that.. whether I was led to believe that I can be perfectly communicate just like hearing people...is that what you mean? If so, then my answer is yes. YES Age 19 Dhaka(It is in Bangladesh) posts from hell, jillio and KristinaB like this.

08-14-2011, 10:37 AM	#113 (permalink)
Babyblue Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 12,001	Hmmm.. OP has not come back with any clarification or whatnot.

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