InnocentOdion

Hello guys.

I hear a lot on the infamous SEE. I don't know much about it at all. I thought it was like, a version of English completely fingerspelled.

What is it about the "ly", "ed", etcetera things that I've heard on here in reference to SEE?

Is it possible to get these questions cleared up? The best way I can think of is some phrases, how they would work in ASL, SEE, PSE and other types.


Hello, my name is InnocentOdion. I am 20 years old. I have 1 daughter and my wife is 5 months pregnant. I am not d/Deaf. I am Hard of Hearing. I am learning Sign Language.
Love y'all!
IO

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

deafskeptic

Signed particples, prepostional phrases and infinitives makes SEE (Signed Exact English) cumbersome and hard on both signers and receiptants because they break up the natural flow of sign language.


To say I am going to the store is cumbersome in SEE. It works perfectly well in spoken english but not so well in SEE. This sentence contains a prepostinal phrase.

PSE would be something like I go store.

It's much easier to just say Store go (signing the sign for go in the direction of the store.) in ASL.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

deafskeptic

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that prepositions like at and for can make SEE cumbersome as well. However, they are used in ASL if they don't break up the natural order of sign. They're not done in the same way as English though.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

jillio

Exactly. And the visual mode of English that is completely fingerspelled is the Rochester method.

SEE: I am go-ing to the store. (Initialized sign for I, sign for am, sign for go, sign for ing, sign for the sign for store)

PSE: I go store.

ASL: Store go.

Angel

Right, I sign SEE mostly than ASL.

__________________
"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

rockdrummer

I am no expert but from what I gather SEE is used to help teach english literacy. It's cumbersome as a communication mode. Too much signing. Here is a link to a thread I started a while back on the topic.

ASL, SEE Sign, & Signed English

Perhaps you might find some useful information there as well. All the best!

deafskeptic

As for me, I sign mostly PSE but I've had some deaf complain i'm too SEE.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

restless_heart

She is right. I am using SEE and have been all my life. Learning ASL, pretty tough because it is like I am addict to SEE and have a habit using SEE all the time. I rarely sign for 13 years and went back to SEE again. SEE and ASL are not the same. Can I ask why most rather use ASL than SEE? Why is it easier for them to use ASL than SEE, is it because it is quicker or...? I am trying to understand why there are three different deaf language today than just one. I have met many deaf people, some used ASL, SEE (rarely) and PSE. It is all not the same, it is hard to focus on what they are saying in ASL and PSE because I am used to SEE and in hearing world all my life.

__________________
Never Give Up: My Stroke, My Recovery & My return to NFL...by Tedy Bruschi

VamPyroX

You're right. It's easier to say "store go" in ASL. But it makes us lazy sometimes when it comes to maintaining proper grammar structure.

__________________
Check out my city... CLICK HERE!
(If you've already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

flip

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that a deaf person signing "store go" is maintaining proper grammar in ASL, while a person signing "I go store" is lazy and don't maintain proper grammar in english nor ASL?

rockdrummer

How would that be considered lazy? The second requires more signing. Generally lazy people try to take the easy way out.

jillio

In my experience, some deaf who are very ASL see PSE and too SEE because the syntax is more English, even though it isn't nearly as cumbersome as SEE.

jillio

But "Store go" is proper grammar structure in ASL.

jillio

Not lazy in the sense of the number of signs....lazy in the effort to learn proper grammar structure for the langauge of ASL. At least, that's what I interpret flip's post to mean. If I'm wrong, I'm sure she will correct me.

Kaitin

Angel or others who use SEE a lot, can I ask you questions about SEE? I am curious about everyday using SEE but I don't want you uncomfortable. I hope these are ok.

With friends etc when you use SEE do you sign/spell the word ending like "ing" and "ly"? Do you sign the little words like "a" "the"? Do you sign the "to be" words? And do you point for "you" "me" etc or sign/spell these?

I wonder if in everyday conversation SEE is exact English really or more PSE? I know a lot of hearing people who use English grammar but don't sign/spell word ending etc. and wonder if they use SEE or PSE? Everyday (not classes etc) do people use SExactE really?

Sorry if this makes little sense. I think about SEE and PSE and then get confused by my own brain and probably this is worse for people reading my post!

flip

Yes, you got me right. Many people do not take the effort to learn proper grammars of ASL, and keep on signing PSE and SEE as the easy way out from what I have seen.

flip

But you have to express less, as less is said with PSE and SEE in the same time it's said in ASL. Who is lazy?

dramasteph

Yeah I too sign more PSE, especially when speaking and signing or trying to translate something quickly from English to sign.

I'd also add that ASL is not necessarily lazy, but also faster. It takes much more time to convey the same meaning with all these extra, unnecessary words like "to" or suffixes or prefixes. Also consider that the deaf are relying upon their eyes to make their way through the world, not their ears, so it takes more time and energy to lipread and understand "I think I am going to the store" instead of "go store" and possibly add "I" to the end.
*Please correct me if you disagree or think something is inaccurate or incomplete.*

Babyblue

I usually sign PSE or SEE with I'm talking and signing. English is my first language and I do sign ASL but I do have to keep my mouth shut in order to keep me from signing PSE or SEE. I learned to sign in 1988. ASL usually have more body language and facial expressions with a lot of emotions very exciting language.

Cheri

Good question, Kaitin with SEE (Signing Exact English) You sign everything that you say and even the little words they place the word order the same as one does when writing English.

But, with having an interpreter, we do not uses an interpreter that uses SEE, we uses an interpreter that uses ASL. It's much easlier and faster.

__________________
Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.

Cheri

They complain about my SEE signs too, even said it was much slower than ASL. I asked them would you rather me to sign or use my voice? They shut up.

__________________
Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.

deafskeptic

LoL. I'l have to remember your answer.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

Kaitin

for the reply, Cheri.

I don't know why my brain has a problem with understanding SEE in conversation (not with interpreter in class or something). When my (hearing) roommate was signing/spelling "a" and "the" and "me" I was just . I didn't think people used these in conversation with SEE, but now I know I was wrong.

ASL is so much faster to me. If I must stop and think about "the", "it" or "this" or "that", "is" or "are" or "will be", "y-o-u", "a" etc probably I never finish a sentence or forget what I want to say.

Cheri

Oh!! Are you talking about finger spelling the small letter words?

I don't fingerspell "the" "me" "is" "are" "will" "be" I sign the whole sentence, no finger spells.

__________________
Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.

restless_heart

I don't see anything wrong with SEE, they have said the same thing that it is Loooong and takes forever to finish one sentence than ASL. I told them well if they want to use ASL that is their choice, but to me, I felt it is lazy that they don't learn English. Am I wrong??? How will someone learn English if they don't learn SEE, like taking a driver's test, filling out their parents' form if they are dying in the hospital, etc... I rather use SEE because I am comfortable with it whether they like it or not. They said fingerspelling is pain in you know where, but what am I supposed to do about it, it was the way I was taught.

__________________
Never Give Up: My Stroke, My Recovery & My return to NFL...by Tedy Bruschi

restless_heart

We would fingerspell the long word like suspense, sometimes we don't remember what the sign for suspense is...depends on our mood ....never in short words as in 'the,' 'is,' 'was,' etc...

__________________
Never Give Up: My Stroke, My Recovery & My return to NFL...by Tedy Bruschi

shel90

Simple..learn English by reading and writing. Nothing to do with the use of language through the air. If one has a strong language foundation whether it is spoken or signed, one will be able to transfer that foundation into learning English.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

jillio

One of the reasons that SEE can be so confusing from a receptive standpoint is that the eye and the ear are designed to receive information differently. The eye receives information in a spatial and time-oriented way, therefore, the syntax of ASL is arranged to provide information in a way that is specialized for the visual system. The ear is designed to receive information in a linear sequence, and the syntax of spoken English is arranged to provide information in way that is compatible with the auditory system. When you provide visual information in an auditory sequence (signs in English syntax and using English grammar rules) it is very confusing for the brain.

restless_heart

I had a sereval friends had trouble understanding English, they felt ASL was the blame for not learning English. I didn't know what to say but I felt it may be true because the teacher refused to teach them higher education just because she felt that they were not 'ready' for English skills. I felt they should learn English before everything else. One couldn't drive because she had failed the test so many time, she didn't understand the booklet. They won't let interupter to come to help her with the test. Other is embrassed that everyone made fun of her because of her poor English, even her children that they had to control over her. That is why we are going to take English class, I want to be with her and help her through it.

__________________
Never Give Up: My Stroke, My Recovery & My return to NFL...by Tedy Bruschi

jillio

In these cases, restless heart, it is not ASL that is to blame, but the teachers that refused to teach these students English skills.