Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article - Page 31

**shel90** · 10-09-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

True, but evidently not enough support to enforce a nation-wide deaf education standard policy. Obviously, for this to happen, there needs to be more Bi-Bi programs....

(Sort of like a Catch 22...)

I dont think research will ever say that due to liability reasons.

jillio · 10-09-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

True, but evidently not enough support to enforce a nation-wide deaf education standard policy. Obviously, for this to happen, there needs to be more Bi-Bi programs....

(Sort of like a Catch 22...)

Well, getting a nationwide policy set is more political than that. Change in education takes a long time. We have known things for years before we have been able to get policy instituted in several cases.

loml · 10-10-2008, 08:10 AM

[QUOTE=Cheri;1120556]Total Communication was not the only method, there were oral and cued speech also.[ /QUOTE]

Cheri - I have always defined/described TC as: voice and ASL sign in English word order.

I have found these discriptions or various methods here: Handout Series # 4010 from the Kendall School Support Services Team--Laurent Clerc National Deaf Education Center

Quote:

Number 4010 Communication Sheet

Communication Choices With Deaf And Hard Of Hearing Children

Timely development of language and communication is integral to a child's social, emotional, and cognitive development. To acquire a language, however, a child must have access to that language. When a child is deaf or hard of hearing, for a variety of reasons they may not have full access to spoken language. It is therefore necessary for families to determine if their child can have the potential for full access to spoken language, or if a visual language would better meet the child's language development needs.

The goal for each deaf or hard of hearing child is to acquire a solid base of language as early as possible, so development in all other areas will proceed on target. Decisions must be made as early in the child's life as possible regarding how to best assure a child full access to language so that the critical years for developing language are best utilized. If language development can proceed on target, deaf and hard of hearing children, in the absence of other challenges, have the potential to follow the same sequence and rate of development in other areas as children who can hear.

For a child who is deaf or hard of hearing, how to best provide optimal access to language and communication has historically been a controversial issue. Beliefs vary regarding which methods will furnish a deaf child with the most complete access to language for learning and for communication. Some of the methodology options related to developing language and communication include but are not limited to the Oral Approach, Bilingual Approach, Cued Speech, and Total Communication. A description of these approaches and the issues surrounding them are described below.

Bilingual Approach

What is involved

American Sign Language (ASL) is a visual gestural language with it's own grammar and syntax. ASL is different from signing English. Fingerspelling (use of a manual alphabet to spell words) is actively integrated into ASL for proper names and other terms for which there are no generally accepted signs. A bilingual approach supports development of American Sign Language as a child's first language, with development of English as a second language through reading, writing, and spoken language (specific to each child's potential and needs). Exposure to ongoing fluent ASL models are considered integral to the success of this approach.

What supporters believe

Supporters of this approach believe that visual language development is crucial to a deaf child's linguistic, cognitive, social and emotional growth. This approach supports American Sign Language as a valid and valuable language that has proven successful for developing an avenue for communication, life success, and literacy development for many Deaf individuals. This approach supports the belief that a child can most easily learn language visually through ASL, and then use ASL to help learn English. Supporters of this approach understand the wide variety of potential deaf children have regarding auditory and speech skill development and believe that development of auditory and speech skills will hold a different level of importance for each child and family. With careful planning, auditory and speech skill development can still be addressed at an early age when visual language is emerging.

Concerns

While the bilingual approach is gaining support as a valid approach for addressing the needs of many deaf children there continue to be many questions about it's use. There are questions about how a child makes the transition from use of ASL as the first language to English as a second language through reading and writing. There are also many questions related to how to address auditory and speech development within the context of this approach. There is sometimes concern on the part of hearing parents and hearing professionals that a bilingual approach may not provide the child with the necessary communication skills to integrate into the 'hearing' world. Another concern is that an environment to promote successful implementation of this approach (exposure to Deaf peers, Deaf role models, and ASL language models) may not be readily available in many schools.

Total Communication Approach

What is involved

Use of all modes of communication- sign language (ASL or manually coded English), spoken language, mime, facial expression, gestures, etc... to facilitate language development and communication. The intention of this methodology is to provide a child with any modality necessary to support the child in developing language. It's intention is not that all modalities be equally weighted and utilized for all children. The most common embodiment of Total Communication, however, has become Simultaneous Communication. Simultaneous Communication is the use of the spoken word simultaneous with the signed version of all or part of the spoken utterance. The signs used are usually an attempt to match the spoken message.

What supporters believe

Supporters believe that use of Total Communication will provide a child with access to a visual language base and at the same time encourage development and use of spoken language. It is believed that if a child is provided with access to all communication modes that language and communication skills will develop and positive social-emotional development will be promoted.

Concerns

There are numerous concerns related to Total Communication (TC). Evidence suggests that use of all communication modes as proposed by a TC approach does not necessarily guarantee development of either a full spoken language or a full visual sign language. In terms of developing a language through signing, children may be exposed to varying signing systems in various programs. There is not one unified signing system used in each TC program. Some TC programs incorporate ASL, however, teacher fluency issues are of concern in many programs. Children in TC programs are often exposed to a telegraphic version of English and an incomplete version of American Sign Language. In terms of developing spoken language, many TC programs appear lacking in the structure needed to succeed in bringing functional spoken language communication to children.

A major concern in relation to TC programs is the evolution of Total Communication to be interpreted as Simultaneous Communication. When a child is provided with language that is spoken and signed at the same time, there is concern that clear communication suffers. The signed component of the message may contain inaccurate or incomplete information and the spoken component of the message may be altered. This may cause difficulty for children in developing a solid language base in either American Sign Language or English (signed or spoken).

Cued Speech

What is involved

Cued Speech is a system utilized to assist in clarifying speechreading information for a child. Hand based cues are provided to help a child differentiate the various phonemes of speech that look similar on the lips. The system includes eight handshapes representing groups of consonant sounds and four locations of the handshapes near the face, each representing a group of vowels sounds. A combination of these hand configurations are coordinated with the natural movements of speech. This system reportedly can be learned in a short time (about 20 hours of direct instruction) and proficiency can be gained in 6 months to a year.

What supporters believe

Supporters of this approach believe that use of cued speech will provide the necessary visual support for a child to have access to spoken language. Supporters believe that children using this approach will develop reading and writing skills comparable to hearing peers and develop the communication skills necessary to integrate into hearing society. Some supporters of this approach are looking at how use of this system can be employed with children using ASL to help these students transition from development of ASL as a first language to English as a second language.

Concerns

Cued speech was developed as a system to assist a child receptively in obtaining spoken language. It does not necessarily help a child develop expressive communication skills. Children who use cued speech may or may not develop effective spoken language communication. Person's who use cued speech are limited to communication interactions with other cuers and cued speech transliterators. This pool of cued speech users may be limited.

Oral Approach

What is involved

This approach supports development of spoken language through use of a child's residual hearing. Appropriate, consistently functioning hearing aids or other listening technology is integral to the success of this approach. Using this approach the child is also trained to obtain as much information as possible from speechreading. Speechreading is the ability to watch the lips and face of a speaker to obtain information.

What Supporters Believe

Supporters of this approach believe that vocal communication is the predominant medium in the world for social exchange and for maximum development of literacy. It is believed that provided with state of the art technology and an appropriate learning environment, that deaf children, regardless of their hearing level can have access to spoken language for successful development of language and communication skills.

Concerns

Historically there has been a notable lack of success bringing spoken language to profoundly deaf individuals. The use of the oral approach makes everyday life and communication a struggle for many deaf children and may suppress the identity of the child as the attempt is made to normalize the child to hearing standards. While there are some children with sufficient residual hearing to learn spoken language using this approach, there is concern that a large number of deaf children will not have the potential for full access to Spoken English, making the learning of English difficult, if not impossible. There is fear that when only spoken language is utilized in the early years, that a child may develop the ability to say a few words, but may not develop a full language. These children may develop some ability to speak, yet they do not have a language for communicating. Subsequently they may be delayed in areas of learning and social-emotional development. This delay in establishing a solid early language base may then set up the child for a pattern of failure.

For children who do not succeed using an oral approach, sign language is often seen as a 'last resort'. There is concern, however, that if sign language is initiated past the critical years for a child's language development, that development of sign language as a full language will be a more difficult challenge for the child.

In summary:

As you plan for a child in your class who is deaf or hard of hearing, it is crucial to be aware of the language and communication competency the child brings to the classroom. It is important to assure that the child continues to have complete access to language for continued language and cognitive development as well as for access to all educational information and social interactions.

Developed by: Debra Nussbaum, Audiologist, Kendall Demonstration Elementary School.

Even with the above definitions/descriptions, I cannot say that I totally agree with the descrition/information/definition provided in this article about CS.

The bottom line is parents need to have accurate, current information, regarding what is available for their family, so that they can make informed decisions. That in itself is a huge undertaking. Nothing is written in stone when it comes to education (and I don't mean only classroom education here) of children with hearing loss and their families.

**Daredevel7** · 10-10-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Even with the above definitions/descriptions, I cannot say that I totally agree with the descrition/information/definition provided in this article about CS.

Thanks for the article! Even though it may not be 100% accurate, it, at least, shows the idea behind each approach and the differences. You said that you somewhat disagree with the info about CS. That makes me wonder about the differences in teaching methods within the same approach. People mostly either defend or hate their environment/approach, but I think it's more effective to say what specifically worked for you and what specifically didn't, as opposed to consolidating your whole experience under one approach and giving thumbs up/down a la Roger Ebert.

**Jiro** · 10-10-2008, 10:04 AM

excellent information, loml. That clears it up for me! Now I have better idea of TS and CS.

jillio · 10-10-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Thanks for the article! Even though it may not be 100% accurate, it, at least, shows the idea behind each approach and the differences. You said that you somewhat disagree with the info about CS. That makes me wonder about the differences in teaching methods within the same approach. People mostly either defend or hate their environment/approach, but I think it's more effective to say what specifically worked for you and what specifically didn't, as opposed to consolidating your whole experience under one approach and giving thumbs up/down a la Roger Ebert.

Loml is not deaf. She works for the National Cued Speech Association.

Cloggy · 10-11-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

........She works for the National Cued Speech Association.

Are you sure? .. .or are you insinuating some sort of bias.??
I doubt she works for the "National Cued Speech Association". She's probably a member. Like you are a "member" of Deaf Culture.
She's passionate about Cued Speech because of the results she has seen with it. You're passionate about ASL because of the results you've seen with it..
Both of you have wonderful experiences.....

It's great to have that experience here on AllDeaf.

jillio · 10-11-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Are you sure? .. .or are you insinuating some sort of bias.??
I doubt she works for the "National Cued Speech Association". She's probably a member. Like you are a "member" of Deaf Culture.
She's passionate about Cued Speech because of the results she has seen with it. You're passionate about ASL because of the results you've seen with it..
Both of you have wonderful experiences.....

It's great to have that experience here on AllDeaf.

Yep, I'm sure. An being a member of a cultural group and a member of an organization that makes money off of the promotion of a specific methodology are two very different circumstances.

Cloggy · 10-11-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yep, I'm sure. An being a member of a cultural group and a member of an organization that makes money off of the promotion of a specific methodology are two very different circumstances.

Making money on it.. ??!!
That's a ridiculous accusation that really does not belong here... !!!

jillio · 10-11-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Making money on it.. ??!!
That's a ridiculous accusation that really does not belong here... !!!

Are you saying that the National Cued Speech Association does not make money promoting Cued Speech? Now that's a ridiculas accusation!

Discovery Bookstore
Cued Speech Journal
NCSA Publications
Cue Camps
Workshops
Transliterator training

Just to name a few of the profitable activities.

Cloggy · 10-11-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yep, I'm sure. An being a member of a cultural group and a member of an organization that makes money off of the promotion of a specific methodology are two very different circumstances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Are you saying that the National Cued Speech Association does not make money promoting Cued Speech? Now that's a ridiculas accusation!

]You posted:
" Loml is not deaf. She works for the National Cued Speech Association."
The latter part of the post is irrelevant to the answer. It's an insinuation.

Then you posted
"An being a member of a cultural group and a member of an organization that makes money off of the promotion of a specific methodology are two very different circumstances"

This is insulting the loml; implying loml is posting her to make money.!
That kind of insulting and insinuation should get you banned..

jillio · 10-11-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

]You posted:
" Loml is not deaf. She works for the National Cued Speech Association."
The latter part of the post is irrelevant to the answer. It's an insinuation.

Then you posted
"An being a member of a cultural group and a member of an organization that makes money off of the promotion of a specific methodology are two very different circumstances"

This is insulting the loml; implying loml is posting her to make money.!
That kind of insulting and insinuation should get you banned..

It isn't an insinuation. It is a statement. The poster to whom I replied thought that loml was deaf. She is not. She has no personal experience with CS as a deaf individual. Likewise, she is employed by the NCSA.

And, add to the list of profit making activities I listed above, the fact that they are affiliated with AEHI/AG BELL MONTESSORI SCHOOL, a pro-oral only school. And, the New York Cued Speech Center, another oral organization.

I didn't imply that loml was posting here to make money. What I am saying, and not implying, is that loml posts here to promote CS, and that she works for an organization that profits from the promotion of CS. In addition, her home page is a link directly to the NCSA.

Nothing false in any of my statements, and nothing insinuated. I said it outright. Evidently, you find the truth to be insulting. Interesting.
Also funny that you try to twist the simple truth into an accusation.

**shel90** · 10-11-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

]You posted:
" Loml is not deaf. She works for the National Cued Speech Association."
The latter part of the post is irrelevant to the answer. It's an insinuation.

Then you posted
"An being a member of a cultural group and a member of an organization that makes money off of the promotion of a specific methodology are two very different circumstances"

This is insulting the loml; implying loml is posting her to make money.!
That kind of insulting and insinuation should get you banned..

Oh boy..here we go again.

Cloggy · 10-11-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It isn't an insinuation. .........

Sure
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oh boy..here we go again.

Nope... Not at all..
You mean insulting members is OK.... ??

jillio · 10-11-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Nope... Not at all..
You mean insulting members is OK.... ??

How is the truth insulting, Cloggy? It has been my experience that people are insulted by the truth only when they are attempting to hide it from others.

jillio · 10-11-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oh boy..here we go again.

Yep.

Byrdie714 · 10-11-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Are you sure? .. .or are you insinuating some sort of bias.??
I doubt she works for the "National Cued Speech Association". She's probably a member. Like you are a "member" of Deaf Culture.
She's passionate about Cued Speech because of the results she has seen with it. You're passionate about ASL because of the results you've seen with it..
Both of you have wonderful experiences.....

It's great to have that experience here on AllDeaf.

Jillio isn't a member of the Deaf culture--she is "family" of the Deaf culture--just like you Cloggy.

jillio · 10-11-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Jillio isn't a member of the Deaf culture--she is "family" of the Deaf culture--just like you Cloggy.

Thank you, Byrdie. I like to consider myself an "honorary member".

**shel90** · 10-11-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Jillio isn't a member of the Deaf culture--she is "family" of the Deaf culture--just like you Cloggy.

Cloggy doesnt consider himself a member of the Deaf culture. He always made sure that Lotte is deaf without the capital D which gave me the impression.

**shel90** · 10-11-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Sure
.

Nope... Not at all..
You mean insulting members is OK.... ??

Isnt it true that Lolm works for an organization that makes money from CS? We dont know if Lolm makes money by posting threads about CS..that we cant assume without getting facts but we already know that lolm works for that organization and yes, that organization gets grants.

If I worked for NAD then yes, I work for an organization.

That's all..so what's the big deal here? One poster thought lolm was deaf and Jillo corrected it by saying that no, she is not deaf and she works for an organization that earns money from the approach.

That's why I said "here we go again" cuz I didnt see the point of the arguments here.

Byrdie714 · 10-11-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Cloggy doesnt consider himself a member of the Deaf culture. He always made sure that Lotte is deaf without the capital D which gave me the impression.

And later in life, Lotte will probably change it to the big 'D'--especially if she wants to go to NTID or Gallaudet.

Cloggy · 10-11-2008, 09:58 AM

**shel90** · 10-11-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

And later in life, Lotte will probably change it to the big 'D'--especially if she wants to go to NTID or Gallaudet.

Lotte's decision. Important she gets a good quality education and I am sure she will since her parents are very involved. I just wish her the best of luck.

**Daredevel7** · 10-11-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Thanks for the article! Even though it may not be 100% accurate, it, at least, shows the idea behind each approach and the differences. You said that you somewhat disagree with the info about CS. That makes me wonder about the differences in teaching methods within the same approach. People mostly either defend or hate their environment/approach, but I think it's more effective to say what specifically worked for you and what specifically didn't, as opposed to consolidating your whole experience under one approach and giving thumbs up/down a la Roger Ebert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Loml is not deaf. She works for the National Cued Speech Association.

I did assume that loml was raised with Cued Speech, so whoops. Not to say that her input isn't significant. I don't know anything about loml or her background. Irregardless*, my statement still stands.

(*I know irregardless is not a real word, but i JUST love saying it, thanks to Mean Girls!)

**Bottesini** · 10-11-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I did assume that loml was raised with Cued Speech, so whoops. Not to say that her input isn't significant. I don't know anything about loml or her background. Irregardless*, my statement still stands.

(*I know irregardless is not a real word, but i JUST love saying it, thanks to Mean Girls!)

irregardless - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

A link to show Merriam-Webster definition. It is a myth that irregardless is not a word. It actually is a word.

**Daredevel7** · 10-11-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

irregardless - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

A link to show Merriam-Webster definition. It is a myth that irregardless is not a word. It actually is a word.

Haha thanks, but if you read the bottom of the link, it says "Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead."
Also it says that it is nonstandard. Oooo

Quote from American Dad:
"Irregardless? That's not even a real word. You're affixing the negative prefix 'ir-' to 'regardless', but, as 'regardless' is already negative, it's a logical absurdity!"
(And yes I watch a lot of movies/TV!)

**Bottesini** · 10-11-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Haha thanks, but if you read the bottom of the link, it says "Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead."
Also it says that it is nonstandard. Oooo

Quote from American Dad:
"Irregardless? That's not even a real word. You're affixing the negative prefix 'ir-' to 'regardless', but, as 'regardless' is already negative, it's a logical absurdity!"
(And yes I watch a lot of movies/TV!)

Sadly, I do nothing so exciting. I read dictionaries. On a wild day, I dip into the thesaurus. (sorry off topic)

jillio · 10-11-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I did assume that loml was raised with Cued Speech, so whoops. Not to say that her input isn't significant. I don't know anything about loml or her background. Irregardless*, my statement still stands.

(*I know irregardless is not a real word, but i JUST love saying it, thanks to Mean Girls!)

And I didn't disagree with your original statement at all. I was just clarifying the hearing status because you appeared to be assuming that she was relating her personal experience.

Cloggy · 10-11-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And I didn't disagree with your original statement at all. I was just clarifying the hearing status because you appeared to be assuming that she was relating her personal experience.

That was fine. Pity you couldn't help yourself to make an insinuation after that clarification...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Loml is not deaf. She works for the National Cued Speech Association.

(Guess it's a bit like the frog and the scorpion...)

vallee · 10-12-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Are you sure? .. .or are you insinuating some sort of bias.??
I doubt she works for the "National Cued Speech Association". She's probably a member. Like you are a "member" of Deaf Culture.
She's passionate about Cued Speech because of the results she has seen with it. You're passionate about ASL because of the results you've seen with it..
Both of you have wonderful experiences.....

It's great to have that experience here on AllDeaf.

It would be nice if someone ask Loml. I know the truth. She has been generous enough to offer to teach me Cued speech. Once we work out the details, I can't wait to learn from her. It is another opportunity for myself and my daughter(Jenna wants to learn as well - my daughter is hearing).

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10-10-2008, 10:04 AM	#905 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,420	excellent information, loml. That clears it up for me! Now I have better idea of TS and CS.

10-11-2008, 09:58 AM	#922 (permalink)
Cloggy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 4,706