Breaking the Code - Page 2

ismi · 11-05-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

corbett did cue briefly as example in the video. I will have to watch it again.. but let me know if you caught it this time.

and I can say that I wish I had immersed into cued speech long time ago oh well.

He did, yeah, but since the video is largely a sales pitch for cueing, and they're trying to demonstrate that this is useful in the real world (i.e., beyond just a demo), cueing everything would've spoken volumes. (This is not a knock on cueing, BTW - I've seen it done fluently and naturally; I just think that the video should've shown that more.)

loml · 11-05-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It's actually a method developed by the oralists who finally conceeded that even with residual hearing and amplification, manual cues were necessary for understanding.

jillio,

This statement that you make is completely and utterly false.

Boult · 11-05-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yeah, CS has been used off and on for years. It's actually a method developed by the oralists who finally conceeded that even with residual hearing and amplification, manual cues were necessary for understanding.

**smh**
bold and underlined is misleading statement. It was not developed by the oralists! It was invented by Gallaudet Professor to improve literacy not oral speech.

Quote:

Dr. Cornett
Dr. R. Orin Cornett, inventor of Cued Speech, was born in Driftwood, Oklahoma on November 14, 1913. In 1965-66, while vice-president of long-range planning and development for Gallaudet College, he developed Cued Speech with the express purpose of providing a way for children who are deaf or hard of hearing to become good readers.

CUEDSPEECH.org > Cued Speech > History He developed it for purpose of improving literacy. He did not develop it for Oralists to use it but actually for ASL users!!! *GASP*

Read more about Cornett: http://www.cuedspeech.org/sub/cued/dr_cornett_passing.

Boult · 11-05-2006, 03:16 PM

loml you beat me to punch.. I took my time shaping my post eh..

GoldenLeaf74 · 11-05-2006, 06:03 PM

Oh God, I hate it. Sorry for my against this CUED program but I thank god I did not join that time.

I grew up my cherish language of ASL.

ASL is real language of Deaf world.

oh well. I feel bad for some kids have to learn diffcult speech more than ASL itself.

I can't believe it..

my heart already been broke because when I see video of speech make me mad. I can't do nothing with their parent and that program.

GoldenLeaf74

deafdyke · 11-05-2006, 06:19 PM

Cued Speech is more about visably expressing sound. You can SEE what the sound "looks" like.

11-05-2006, 06:31 PM

I don't get it? I don't understand Cued Speech...

Boult · 11-05-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenLeaf74

Oh God, I hate it. Sorry for my against this CUED program but I thank god I did not join that time.

I grew up my cherish language of ASL.

ASL is real language of Deaf world.

oh well. I feel bad for some kids have to learn diffcult speech more than ASL itself.

I can't believe it..

my heart already been broke because when I see video of speech make me mad. I can't do nothing with their parent and that program.

GoldenLeaf74

cued speech is not about learning how to use speech correctly.. NEVER! you misunderstood what Cued Speech is! the word "speech" in "cued speech" does not means learning to use speech. It should have been named "cued english" instead.

again cued speech is used to do this: (from CUEDSPEECH.org > Cued Speech > Cued Speech Index )
Cued Speech was created originally to enable parents of children who are deaf or hard of hearing to easily make their spoken language clearly visible, so that their children could internalize the appropriate phonemic language base for literacy through exposure.

Speech is about learning how to sound to form words and letters.

so both are entirely different.

so you saying "oh god, I hate it" is silly thing to say.

GoldenLeaf74 · 11-05-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

cued speech is not about learning how to use speech correctly.. NEVER! you misunderstood what Cued Speech is! the word "speech" in "cued speech" does not means learning to use speech. It should have been named "cued english" instead.

again cued speech is used to do this: (from CUEDSPEECH.org > Cued Speech > Cued Speech Index )
Cued Speech was created originally to enable parents of children who are deaf or hard of hearing to easily make their spoken language clearly visible, so that their children could internalize the appropriate phonemic language base for literacy through exposure.

Speech is about learning how to sound to form words and letters.

so both are entirely different.

so you saying "oh god, I hate it" is silly thing to say.

oh, i didn't know that. but in my view I can see what they doing on kids. NO SIGN AT ALL.

what is going on, maybe your opinion is different than mine.

or you can prove me wrong. I never see that before. It's make me creepy to think It must to teach speech or something like that.

jillio · 11-06-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

cued speech is not about learning how to use speech correctly.. NEVER! you misunderstood what Cued Speech is! the word "speech" in "cued speech" does not means learning to use speech. It should have been named "cued english" instead.

again cued speech is used to do this: (from CUEDSPEECH.org > Cued Speech > Cued Speech Index )
Cued Speech was created originally to enable parents of children who are deaf or hard of hearing to easily make their spoken language clearly visible, so that their children could internalize the appropriate phonemic language base for literacy through exposure.

Speech is about learning how to sound to form words and letters.

so both are entirely different.

so you saying "oh god, I hate it" is silly thing to say.

Yep. Once agian, you have proven my point. Why do we need to make phonic construction of words visable--because we are teaching an aural/auditory based language. Phonics are only useful auditorily. Handshapes in CS make those phonemes which are not easily speechread visable through the handshape. Why? For increased efficiency in lipreading and speech production. Internalized appropriate phonemic bases are only necessary if one is also attempting to internalized an aural/auditory language.

I'm not saying CS is not useful. What I am saying is that it is another articficial system of making English visable. The Deaf sure as h*** didn't come up with it. And if it is so successful in teaching literacy skills, why has it been around for so long, yet is so rarely used?

GoldenLeaf74 · 11-06-2006, 01:26 PM

I don't believe it at all.

My believe Deaf people can sucessfully life without no speech tranining.

It is only use brian to work to see visable than waste to learn speech..

I never trust in speech traning because some Deaf people already fool up into the hearing world.

STFU hearing world.

jillio · 11-06-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenLeaf74

I don't believe it at all.

My believe Deaf people can sucessfully life without no speech tranining.

It is only use brian to work to see visable than waste to learn speech..

I never trust in speech traning because some Deaf people already fool up into the hearing world.

STFU hearing world.

Agreed. If you need to make language visable to the Deaf, use ASL. No reason to invent another manual system.

jillio · 11-06-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Cued English/Cued Speech is based on phonemes, not phonetics. A phonemes is: the smallest sound unit which, in terms of the phonetic sequences of sound, controls meaning.

Dr. Cornett created Cued Speech because he was deeply concerned about the literacy skills of deaf children. It is all about literacy, always has been always will be.

ps: good links Boult!

And phonemes are only useful when spoken. It is then that they provide discriminatory cues between morphemes or words. And what is a phoneme when based on a consistent way of pronunciation? Pronunciation is based on phonics--the way to say the phoneme. I have a varied background in linguistics and am perfectly aware of the relationship between phonemes and phonetics.

loml · 11-06-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And phonemes are only useful when spoken. It is then that they provide discriminatory cues between morphemes or words. And what is a phoneme when based on a consistent way of pronunciation? Pronunciation is based on phonics--the way to say the phoneme. I have a varied background in linguistics and am perfectly aware of the relationship between phonemes and phonetics.

You may have a varied background in linguistics, but you do not understand cueing.

loml · 11-06-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

And if it is so successful in teaching literacy skills, why has it been around for so long, yet is so rarely used?

It isn't used as rarely as you may think.

When people don't understand or afraid they are quick to be negative.

loml · 11-06-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Internalized appropriate phonemic bases are only necessary if one is also attempting to internalized an aural/auditory language

Which is how people learn language. Why make something extremely difficult to do, when cueing the language allows the language to be internalized.

Quote:

Handshapes in CS make those phonemes which are not easily speechread visable through the handshape. Why? For increased efficiency in lipreading and speech production.

Besides the fact that CS was never created for speech therapy,(which I tire of having to mention yet again to you), if it does increase effeciency in lipreading and speech production, why is that a problem for you?

Quote:

If you need to make language visable to the Deaf, use ASL. No reason to invent another manual system.

It has never been suggested the Cued English/Cued Speech replace ASL, in fact the work very well together. Speak of what you know and stop spreading rubbish.

Boult · 11-06-2006, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yep. Once agian, you have proven my point. Why do we need to make phonic construction of words visable--because we are teaching an aural/auditory based language. Phonics are only useful auditorily. Handshapes in CS make those phonemes which are not easily speechread visable through the handshape. Why? For increased efficiency in lipreading and speech production. Internalized appropriate phonemic bases are only necessary if one is also attempting to internalized an aural/auditory language.

I'm not saying CS is not useful. What I am saying is that it is another articficial system of making English visable. The Deaf sure as h*** didn't come up with it. And if it is so successful in teaching literacy skills, why has it been around for so long, yet is so rarely used?

What loml say is what I want to say.

Quote:

And if it is so successful in teaching literacy skills, why has it been around for so long, yet is so rarely used?

It's because people like you shun it. just like they shun oral, pse, see or other communication tools that are NOT ASL.

It is not rarely used. It has been used all over the world which you didn't know! why? because decade ago, they didn't have website. Those who knew about it are thru word of mouth and school like CID or such. now that NCSA formed a website 6 yrs ago at National Cued Speech Association now, it has presence and I can see that it is growing and getting attention. Cued Speech is used internationally: CUEDSPEECH.org > About NCSA > Affiliates > CS Around the World

Boult · 11-06-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenLeaf74

I don't believe it at all.

My believe Deaf people can sucessfully life without no speech tranining.

It is only use brian to work to see visable than waste to learn speech..

I never trust in speech traning because some Deaf people already fool up into the hearing world.

STFU hearing world.

cued speech is not about learning speech. still clueless. NEXT!

Boult · 11-07-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

You may have a varied background in linguistics, but you do not understand cueing.

right on loml!

jillio · 11-07-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

You may have a varied background in linguistics, but you do not understand cueing.

Actually, I do understand cueing, and have studied not only applications, but history of such. Perhaps you should do the same.

loml · 11-07-2006, 04:53 PM

What you type may be your slanted, ASL linguisitc pseudo- understanding of cueing...but quite frankly, you do not get it.

jillio · 11-07-2006, 05:03 PM

loml;
I'm not going to get into a ridiculas argument with you regarding my understanding of cueing as you are obviously not open minded enough to see past your own narrow minded point of view. This argument has been going on for years, ans still boils down to one simple point--language acquisition for deaf children, and the best way to accomplish that. Perhaps you choose not to delve into the subject deeply enough to grasp all of the psychosocial and psycholinguistic aspects of such, and that is certainly your choice. Leave it to say that the scholarly research as well as the anecdotal evidence supports my statements.

jillio · 11-07-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Which is how people learn language. Why make something extremely difficult to do, when cueing the language allows the language to be internalized.

Besides the fact that CS was never created for speech therapy,(which I tire of having to mention yet again to you), if it does increase effeciency in lipreading and speech production, why is that a problem for you?

It has never been suggested the Cued English/Cued Speech replace ASL, in fact the work very well together. Speak of what you know and stop spreading rubbish.

Exactly, why make it so difficult by forcing the deaf to rely on arbitrary and misunderstood lipreading and resisdual hearing. If visual ccues are necessary for understnading, there is a system that has been in use and has developed into a natural and sophistocated language--the language of signs. Manual communication also allows the language to be internalized.

How in the hell can CS and ASL work in combination? You can't cue and sign at the same time! And if Asl is already in place providing the visual cues necessary for comprehension, then why is another manual system needed?

I don't have a problem with the fact that CS has, through anecdotal evidence, produced increased skill in lipreading and speech production. But only for a limited number of people.

And if it is not so rarely used, why is that you seem to be on the bandwagon for a system that was created so many years ago, and has become popular, then lost popularity so many times. If the system is so effective, why isn't the system of preference in deaf education? Why don't all deaf individuals jump on the bandwagon, claiming, "Oh! Here is what I've needed all my life to understand English!"

Do you use CS? Do you use CS to teach your children language? Do you use CS to understand the communications of the English sspeaking hearing world? Is it something you practice everyday? Have you ever visted, in person, a classroom of hh/deaf students being taught language with CS, and observed the results? Do you have replicable, experimental studies that support the claims you make? I think not. So perhaps it is you who shsould speak of what they know.

jillio · 11-07-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

What loml say is what I want to say.

It's because people like you shun it. just like they shun oral, pse, see or other communication tools that are NOT ASL.

It is not rarely used. It has been used all over the world which you didn't know! why? because decade ago, they didn't have website. Those who knew about it are thru word of mouth and school like CID or such. now that NCSA formed a website 6 yrs ago at National Cued Speech Association now, it has presence and I can see that it is growing and getting attention. Cued Speech is used internationally: CUEDSPEECH.org > About NCSA > Affiliates > CS Around the World

I don't shun it. I simply say that the use is very very limited. You take any criticism of anything you believe to be a personal attack. Get over yourself. If you have such strong evidence to support your claims, then you shouldn't be afraid of a little confrontation.

Surely you don't think that the information jusst became available because they have a website now. The information has been out there for years. Do a little readding, and you will find out more than a simple website that supports CS can provide you.

For instance, where, and with what successs, it is used internationally? How does the international Deaf population feel about CS. Got any stats on improved literacy rates--other thatn "he said, she said" anecdotal evidence.

Use something more than your narrow minded I'll buy anything as long as it isn't ASL attitude to convince me how wonderful this system is and how it is going to revolutionize the literacy of the deaf worldwide.

DeafMonkey · 11-07-2006, 06:14 PM

http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language...ch-anyone.html

same thread here and another thread?

DeafMonkey · 11-07-2006, 06:15 PM

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-educatio...tml#post666927

same thread here and another thread?

jillio · 11-07-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafMonkey

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-educatio...tml#post666927

same thread here and another thread?

Yeah, same thread, same argument!

DeafMonkey · 11-07-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yeah, same thread, same argument!

Yeah I hope so the mods can move all in one

jillio · 11-07-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxvasdf

ironically loml has this sig...

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

Yeah, that is ironic! LOL

jillio · 11-07-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafMonkey

http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language...ch-anyone.html

same thread here and another thread?

Yeah, like you said in other one: maybe mods will put it all together.

11-05-2006, 06:03 PM	#35 (permalink)
GoldenLeaf74 The Eagle fan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. John's, NL Posts: 977	Oh God, I hate it. Sorry for my against this CUED program but I thank god I did not join that time. I grew up my cherish language of ASL. ASL is real language of Deaf world. oh well. I feel bad for some kids have to learn diffcult speech more than ASL itself. I can't believe it.. my heart already been broke because when I see video of speech make me mad. I can't do nothing with their parent and that program. GoldenLeaf74 __________________

11-06-2006, 01:26 PM	#41 (permalink)
GoldenLeaf74 The Eagle fan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. John's, NL Posts: 977	I don't believe it at all. My believe Deaf people can sucessfully life without no speech tranining. It is only use brian to work to see visable than waste to learn speech.. I never trust in speech traning because some Deaf people already fool up into the hearing world. STFU hearing world. __________________

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11-05-2006, 06:19 PM	#36 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 7,495	Cued Speech is more about visably expressing sound. You can SEE what the sound "looks" like.

11-05-2006, 06:31 PM	#37 (permalink)
CrazyMomma Guest Posts: n/a	I don't get it? I don't understand Cued Speech...

11-07-2006, 05:03 PM	#52 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 32,396	loml; I'm not going to get into a ridiculas argument with you regarding my understanding of cueing as you are obviously not open minded enough to see past your own narrow minded point of view. This argument has been going on for years, ans still boils down to one simple point--language acquisition for deaf children, and the best way to accomplish that. Perhaps you choose not to delve into the subject deeply enough to grasp all of the psychosocial and psycholinguistic aspects of such, and that is certainly your choice. Leave it to say that the scholarly research as well as the anecdotal evidence supports my statements.

11-07-2006, 06:14 PM	#55 (permalink)
DeafMonkey SUN/MOON Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 9,567	http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language...ch-anyone.html same thread here and another thread?

11-07-2006, 06:15 PM	#56 (permalink)
DeafMonkey SUN/MOON Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 9,567	http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-educatio...tml#post666927 same thread here and another thread?