WWIII has begin?

craigm26 said:
:hmm::gpost:

can we close this thread?....I'm not sure what we're debating anymore...

1. certiainly WWIII won't come of this latest skirmish between NK/SK??? agreed???

2. certainly NK won't use a nuclear bomb? agreed???

ok if anybody says "no" to either question...then keep it open for more debate. I think we're starting to run into circles.
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we are but its a good discussion.

The key being the "sum of all fears".

NUKES

North Korea has them.
 
Jiro said:
if there's one thing you should know about me - it's me being stronger than A Great Wall of China :lol: I never take anything personally and I simply have a very strong opinion. and perhaps a sharp tongue :)


that's why I will stand up and speak out to ensure that our government shouldn't resort to dirty work in the name of peace. Naive? perhaps but it's what we should try to strive for. Every once in a while in our history, we will have a very dark chapter.

Native Americans. Negro Segregation. Atomic Bombings. Japanese-American Internment. and now 9/11. I pray that we won't have another dark chapter but we will and I will continue to speak out against it as long as the Constitution affords me the rights to do so.
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:gpost:
 
craigm26 said:
I think we're starting to run into circles.
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oh no! why didn't I realize that I've been walking in mobius strip!? *thud*

I suppose we can kindly end this with... "let's agree to disagree"
 
Jiro said:
if there's one thing you should know about me - it's me being stronger than A Great Wall of China :lol: I never take anything personally and I simply have a very strong opinion. and perhaps a sharp tongue :)


that's why I will stand up and speak out to ensure that our government shouldn't resort to dirty work in the name of peace. Naive? perhaps but it's what we should try to strive for. Every once in a while in our history, we will have a very dark chapter.

Native Americans. Negro Segregation. Atomic Bombings. Japanese-American Internment. and now 9/11. I pray that we won't have another dark chapter but we will and I will continue to speak out against it as long as the Constitution affords me the rights to do so.
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Keep thinking that way Jiro.
 
Steinhauer said:
we are but its a good discussion.

The key being the "sum of all fears".

NUKES

North Korea has them.
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can we live in world where NK won't sell those bits of technology (or the actual weapons)?....i.e. will NK/China allow either China or SK to take over that terroritory and ensure no trading of that technology resumes?
 
Jiro said:
oh no! why didn't I realize that I've been walking in mobius strip!? *thud*

I suppose we can kindly end this with... "let's agree to disagree"
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Yeah...I mean we can always come back to this issue later...just that there's a lot we don't know and a lot that is going on out there...I think we all got each others sides? I think I do...I'm satisfied.
 
Steinhauer said:
Keep thinking that way Jiro.
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you too :wave:

neither of us is wrong because alternatively, President Truman could have decided not to drop atomic bomb and we'd still win against Japanese at the cost of 100,000+ more soldiers' lives.
 
craigm26 said:
can we live in world where NK won't sell those bits of technology (or the actual weapons)?....i.e. will NK/China allow either China or SK to take over that terroritory and ensure no trading of that technology resumes?
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if China takes over NK, I think we'll have a war at hands :lol:
 
Steinhauer said:
we are but its a good discussion.

The key being the "sum of all fears".

NUKES

North Korea has them.
Click to expand...

ah yes - the Sum of All Fears. I like that line. the movie was ok too. The only difference between me and Truman is that I would still refuse to use atomic bomb on Japan despite of sum of all fears (such as Pearl Harbor falling under Japanese control which could lead to the rape/massacre of Pearl Harbor, Japanese landing on our West Coast, etc.)

I will only opt for nuclear bomb as an absolutely last resort but hey - that's just me if I were the POTUS
 
Jiro said:
if China takes over NK, I think we'll have a war at hands :lol:
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I disagree.

China is not as bad as NK....at least part of china is communist (Politically communist...liberalism on economics) and MIGHT be a smoother transition (to Korea as a whole) than a SK/US set-up.
 
Jiro said:
it's called war. ugly thing happens. what do you expect? it still doesn't justify the use of nuclear weapon on civilian population. The Japanese civilians who died in atomic bombs did not participate in the rape of Nanking

perhaps I should remind you what our American soldiers did to Iraqi civilians? yes the raping and murder part.
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STATISTICS OF JAPANESE GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER
 
Jiro said:
ah yes - the Sum of All Fears. I like that line. the movie was ok too. The only difference between me and Truman is that I would still refuse to use atomic bomb on Japan despite of sum of all fears (such as Pearl Harbor falling under Japanese control which could lead to the rape/massacre of Pearl Harbor, Japanese landing on our West Coast, etc.)

I will only opt for nuclear bomb as an absolutely last resort but hey - that's just me if I were the POTUS
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In my opinion, Hiroshima "may" have been necessary but Nagasaki was just vengeance and unnecessary.


But hey, Japan and the United States are good friends now. Hard to believe how quickly that happened.
 
I mean a commitment to shock therapy isn't a bad idea either....just don't want a half-assed effort y'know?
 
craigm26 said:
I disagree.

China is not as bad as NK....at least part of china is communist (Politically communist...liberalism on economics) and MIGHT be a smoother transition (to Korea as a whole) than a SK/US set-up.
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that would mean - you're ok with letting Taiwan fall to Chinese's control.

FYI - politically.... NK is military dictatorship. "Communism" is just a selling tool for Kim Jong-Il to use in order to continue his regime.

The condition in NK was much better than now under Kim Il-Sung (his father). Kim Jong-Il is far far far worse than Kim Il-Sung so it's just the matter of time till his regime collapses.
 
Steinhauer said:
In my opinion, Hiroshima "may" have been necessary but Nagasaki was just vengeance and unnecessary.


But hey, Japan and the United States are good friends now. Hard to believe how quickly that happened.
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I know right?

but since they're good friends now... don't you think USA should perhaps apologize?
 
Jiro said:
not interested. still doesn't justify the use of nuclear weapon in any way....
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Not interested in removing the blinders?

Well, then there's nothing more to be said.
 
Jiro, you shared a story about your dad, so I feel a little compelled to share this story with you. My Uncle Warren from Brooklyn, New York was in the Pearl Harbor attack. He was one of two survivors of an LST that was sunk. He had amnesia for about 6 years after the attack. My nana (grandmother) thought he had died. So did my great grandmother.

Anyways, when he had recall, he found his way home in Brooklyn with an orderly. No one knew his name, even himself, he just remembered how to get home. My nana saw him walking down the street as she was sitting on the front stoop. She ran inside to tell her mother. Her mother told her, "its not him sweetie, its just someone that looks like him ... " when he knocked on the door.

My great grandmother, whom I never met, fainted.

There was a high hatred of the Japanese amongst Americans of that era. My uncle was one of those Americans.

Well, eventually the next generation of children were born. My nana's sister (my aunt) had twin boys. One serves in the Army and is in Iraq, his brother married a woman from japan ;)

Interesting no? My Uncle Warren had to swallow his old feelings of hurt to welcome her in the family.
 
Jiro said:
I know right?

but since they're good friends now... don't you think USA should perhaps apologize?
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We did. Japan made the attempt to apologize for pearl harbor for many many years. The US Armed Forces refused the apology. there was still too much hurt.

Eventually, a ceremony was held at the USS Arizona and the United States Government accepted Japan's apology. Then we apologized.
 
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