WTF?! Miscarriage law in Utah

Proposed law is unconstitutional. What's wrong with the people in Utah?!?
 
:wtf: :mad2:

As if having a miscarriage isn't already bad enough.

Can't these people have a little compassion? Geez. :roll:
 
netrox said:
it makes no sense, why should women be punished if they try to do abortions on their own and when doctors perform legal abortions, they aren't punished? The outcome is the same - abortion.
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The risks are not the same. How does one perform a self-abortion? It's a medical procedure that should be done by a qualified doctor.
 
Rep. Carl Wimmer, a police officer sponsored the bill.

The bill came from the recent case is that prosecutors said that a girl's boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she did not get an abortion. A 17-year-old girl paid $150 to 21-year-old guy to beat her, so she would miscarriage. She was seven months pregnant at the time.

She gave birth later. Sources said that "she was charged with attempted murder, but the charges were dropped. Because, at the time, under Utah state law a woman could not be prosecuted for attempting to arrange an abortion, lawful or unlawful". Utahns split over this bill.
 
Also, It is interesting that the sources said that the girl is seeking custody of the baby. The baby is in state's custody.
 
Barbaro said:
Rep. Carl Wimmer, a police officer sponsored the bill.

The bill came from the recent case is that prosecutors said that a girl's boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she did not get an abortion. A 17-year-old girl paid $150 to 21-year-old guy to beat her, so she would miscarriage. She was seven months pregnant at the time.

She gave birth later. Sources said that "she was charged with attempted murder, but the charges were dropped. Because, at the time, under Utah state law a woman could not be prosecuted for attempting to arrange an abortion, lawful or unlawful". Utahns split over this bill.
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So the guy who was going to be paid $150 set her up for jail or did he really beat her up pretty bad? i'm just curious how did they find out about this

a few abortions women can do on themselves are coat hangers or drugs but they are just risking themselves when they do that (and hiring people to beat them is too)
 
TXgolfer said:
So you are ok with "intentional,knowing and reckless behavior"????
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No but that is vague phrasing that could easily be abused to win or lose almost any case. Any good lawyer could prove almost any behavior to be "intentional, knowing, and wreckless."

Not to mention women don't have miscarriages or self-abort just cause they feel like it. There are usually a host of complex reasons behind it, ranging from financial to emotional. They usually don't feel like they have a choice. It's hardly fair to pass a law that judges every woman without knowing her circumstances, especially when she already feels like she has no other choice.

Such a law is just cruel and cold-hearted.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
So the guy who was going to be paid $150 set her up for jail or did he really beat her up pretty bad? i'm just curious how did they find out about this

a few abortions women can do on themselves are coat hangers or drugs but they are just risking themselves when they do that (and hiring people to beat them is too)
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There are so many sources out there online. His name is Aaron Harrison. He has lots of problems in the past like petty theft. Police said that he accepted $150 from her, and he took her to his parents' house. He kicked her in the stomach five times and bit her neck. The girl then told her family she was mugged and sexually assaulted. Her family told police, but the officers did not buy it.

Pregnant teen asks friend to hit her to cause miscarriage - ABC 4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News

Man gets prison in pay-to-miscarry beating case - Salt Lake Tribune

Utah Man Sentenced in Pregnant Teen Beating Case - ABC News

and more.
 
Well a law is just a law.....That's why we have trials. Trials are where circumstances are evaluated. Also many cases where circumstances are obvious never make it to trial....Whether it's because cops make the decision to let it slide or a prosecutor decides not to file charges.......
 
The Utah Senate has joined the House in allowing homicide charges against expectant mothers who arrange illegal abortions.

The bill responds to a case in which a Vernal woman allegedly paid a man $150 to beat her and cause miscarriage but could not be charged. The Senate on Thursday approved HB12 on a vote of 24-4, criminalizing a woman's "intentional, knowing, or reckless act" leading to a pregnancy's illegal termination. It specifies that a woman cannot be prosecuted for arranging a legal abortion.

The measure now goes to Gov. Gary Herbert for final action.

Some Senate Democrats attempted a last-minute amendment to remove the word "reckless" from the list of criminal acts leading to miscarriage. They argued that criminalizing reckless acts leaves open the possibility of prosecutions against domestic violence victims who return to their abusers only to be beaten and lose the child.

"It's part of the cycle of domestic violence," said Sen. Luz Robles, D-Salt Lake City.

"I hope none of you ever have to face that situation," she said after realizing the majority would pass the bill as is, "or have a daughter facing that situation, or a granddaughter."

But the bill's sponsor, Sen. Margaret Dayton, R-Orem, said the bill doesn't target victims at all -- only those who arrange to terminate their pregnancies illegally.

"I know it's well-intentioned," Dayton said of the attempt to lift "reckless acts" from the bill,

"but I don't think we want to go down the road of carefully defining the behavior of a woman."

Robles and Sen. Ben McAdams said they had spoken to the bill's original sponsor, Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, just before the debate and believed he would support the change on behalf of domestic violence victims. Dayton, though, said Wimmer sent her a text message during the debate asking her to press on.

Wimmer later said he had been open to the Democrats' suggestion, but it had come too late.

"I wasn't about to hold the bill up," he said.
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Measure on illegal abortions heads to governor - Salt Lake Tribune
 
TXgolfer said:
Well a law is just a law.....That's why we have trials. Trials are where circumstances are evaluated. Also many cases where circumstances are obvious never make it to trial....Whether it's because cops make the decision to let it slide or a prosecutor decides not to file charges.......
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But like I said, any lawyer can interpret that phrase to win or lose almost any case.
 
I wonder if this violiates one of the Amendments in the U.S. Constitution?
 
So...those laws that the people make in Utah...sounds like they are admitting that they are pretty much getting dumber everyday?
 
Ok.....Here is why I always say don't cite blogs

Notice how the blog above says intentionally knowing and reckless

Now here is how it actually reads. Feel free to read it yourself at the Utah State Legislature site....

76-5-201. Criminal homicide -- Elements -- Designations of offenses.
48 (1) (a) A person commits criminal homicide if [he] the person intentionally,
49 knowingly, recklessly, with criminal negligence, or acting with a mental state otherwise
50 specified in the statute defining the offense, causes the death of another human being, including
51 an unborn child at any stage of its development.
52 (b) There shall be no cause of action for criminal homicide for the death of an unborn
53 child caused by an abortion, as defined in Section 76-7-301 .
54 (2) Criminal homicide is aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, child abuse
55 homicide, homicide by assault, negligent homicide, or automobile homicide.

See the 2 bolds? The law specifically states criminal negligence must be involved......but the blogger chose to leave that out

The law also states abortion shall not be considered murder.....blogger kind of forgot to mention that too

The blogger also added the and to make it appear that wes the end of the list
 
Why did the Utah Govt make this bill based on one measly case?

Women shouldn't be blamed for having accidents while pregnant also they shouldn't be blamed automatically everytime they miscarry. Sure, if a miscarry is done on purpose then yes, criminal charges should be laid.

However every situation has different factors so consideration should be taken into account.
 
TXgolfer said:
Ok.....Here is why I always say don't cite blogs

Notice how the blog above says intentionally knowing and reckless

Now here is how it actually reads. Feel free to read it yourself at the Utah State Legislature site....

76-5-201. Criminal homicide -- Elements -- Designations of offenses.
48 (1) (a) A person commits criminal homicide if [he] the person intentionally,
49 knowingly, recklessly, with criminal negligence, or acting with a mental state otherwise
50 specified in the statute defining the offense, causes the death of another human being, including
51 an unborn child at any stage of its development.
52 (b) There shall be no cause of action for criminal homicide for the death of an unborn
53 child caused by an abortion, as defined in Section 76-7-301 .
54 (2) Criminal homicide is aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, child abuse
55 homicide, homicide by assault, negligent homicide, or automobile homicide.

See the 2 bolds? The law specifically states criminal negligence must be involved......but the blogger chose to leave that out

The law also states abortion shall not be considered murder.....blogger kind of forgot to mention that too

The blogger also added the and to make it appear that wes the end of the list
Click to expand...



I love this-GO UTAH! I may move there yet.
 
TXgolfer said:
Ok.....Here is why I always say don't cite blogs

Notice how the blog above says intentionally knowing and reckless

Now here is how it actually reads. Feel free to read it yourself at the Utah State Legislature site....

76-5-201. Criminal homicide -- Elements -- Designations of offenses.
48 (1) (a) A person commits criminal homicide if [he] the person intentionally,
49 knowingly, recklessly, with criminal negligence, or acting with a mental state otherwise
50 specified in the statute defining the offense, causes the death of another human being, including
51 an unborn child at any stage of its development.
52 (b) There shall be no cause of action for criminal homicide for the death of an unborn
53 child caused by an abortion, as defined in Section 76-7-301 .
54 (2) Criminal homicide is aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, child abuse
55 homicide, homicide by assault, negligent homicide, or automobile homicide.

See the 2 bolds? The law specifically states criminal negligence must be involved......but the blogger chose to leave that out

The law also states abortion shall not be considered murder.....blogger kind of forgot to mention that too

The blogger also added the and to make it appear that wes the end of the list
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification-I knew the blogger messed up and knowingly, intentionally left out important details for her own cause.
 
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