Why?

Cloggy said:
I have the experience of raising a deaf child with CI. YOU do not have that.

So please stop denigrating the experiences of those who post on this board and are in disagreement with your particular experience. They have experience of what is, you only have it as an observer.
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Ah, yes. But you do not have the experience of day to day involvement with the Deaaf community and close contact with those who have not experienced the benefits you say your daughter has experienced. You do not work on adaily basis to insure that educational services are place for students in order that they are able to use the full potential of their intellect despite the fact that they speak a different language. You do not counsel those young adults who are experiencing adjustment problems because they have never been able to find their place in the world. Yes I have the experience of raising a deaf son. But my experience goes beyond that, as I interact with the deaf community and advocate for deaf college students on a dialy basis. As a consequence, my views are based on much more than the limiting experience of my own world, and my own child.
 
flip said:
A bit offtopic:
This bashing reminds me a of the marijuana debate. Some of those who smoke, says they are doing great, while scientist and psychologist who deals with many of those people, do findings that shows some bad downsides of pot. But some of those smokers still are very defensive to the downsides that exists. They attacks the science/goverment for lying, and only accept scientifical findings that shows the upside of pot smoking. They even go for campaigns that ignore all downsides of pot smoking, and promotes it can save the world. The pot business is a billion dollar one, and it gives many people a brighter reality, at least for a while. And now, change pot with CI to see the similarities, sure this comparision is flawed, but still some similar traits.

Ok, closing that vent again..

Hope I did not give anyone the idea to ask their children to smoke weed :)
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Well I should hope not! ;)

Interesting post though. I've not thought about it that way. I did used to take hash. It makes you really weak and stupid although I didn't have too much problem giving it up.
 
flip said:
You nailed it!

If they do not need the deaf community, like they state, they should at least stop going to this board and go to a board called "allhearing.com" or "allCI.com". It's so incoherent, I don't understand they don't see it. It gives me a impression they are here for some insecure reasons, trying to put those who have different experiences down.

A bit offtopic:
similar traits.
This bashing reminds me a of the marijuana debate. Some of those who smoke, says they are doing great, while scientist and psychologist who deals with many of those people, do findings that shows some bad downsides of pot. But some of those smokers still are very defensive to the downsides that exists. They attacks the science/goverment for lying, and only accept scientifical findings that shows the upside of pot smoking. They even go for campaigns that ignore all downsides of pot smoking, and promotes it can save the world. The pot business is a billion dollar one, and it gives many people a brighter reality, at least for a while. And now, change pot with CI to see the similarities, sure this comparision is flawed, but still some
Ok, closing that vent again..

Hope I did not give anyone the idea to ask their children to smoke weed :)
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:laugh2: Good comparison. So that's what it is, hun? That makes the whole thing much more undertandable. You are too funny!
 
jillio said:
Ah, yes. But you do not have the experience of day to day involvement with the Deaaf community and close contact with those who have not experienced the benefits you say your daughter has experienced.
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I don't, and I don't need to. They do not experience what my daughter is experiencein. She can hear my wife whisper across the room... That's not something I would associate with deaf culture...

jillio said:
You do not work on adaily basis to insure that educational services are place for students in order that they are able to use the full potential of their intellect despite the fact that they speak a different language.
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No, so what...?

jillio said:
You do not counsel those young adults who are experiencing adjustment problems because they have never been able to find their place in the world.
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No, so what..?

jillio said:
Yes I have the experience of raising a deaf son. But my experience goes beyond that, as I interact with the deaf community and advocate for deaf college students on a dialy basis. As a consequence, my views are based on much more than the limiting experience of my own world, and my own child.
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YOu can do, and are doing so many wonderful things... wonderful.

Still, you agree that you have no experience, no clue about raising a deaf child that can hear...

Had I raised a deaf child that couldn't hear, I would be using sign and I would drive the 1000 km in order to get in contact with peers.
SInce this is not the case, I don't need to drive that far, since all the stimulation - in a communication sense of the way - she gets from any person around her. People she knows and people she doesn't know...!
 
Cloggy said:
I don't, and I don't need to. They do not experience what my daughter is experiencein. She can hear my wife whisper across the room... That's not something I would associate with deaf culture...

No, so what...?

No, so what..?

YOu can do, and are doing so many wonderful things... wonderful.

Still, you agree that you have no experience, no clue about raising a deaf child that can hear...

Had I raised a deaf child that couldn't hear, I would be using sign and I would drive the 1000 km in order to get in contact with peers.
SInce this is not the case, I don't need to drive that far, since all the stimulation - in a communication sense of the way - she gets from any person around her. People she knows and people she doesn't know...!
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Wow..that sounds like my mother when it came to raising me..she used to say "I don't need this or that or My daughter doesn't need this or that." She used to tell people that I do just fine with my hearing peers. I fooled her and myself too big time growing up. U just brought back memories with those comment...interesting.
 
Cloggy said:
I don't, and I don't need to. They do not experience what my daughter is experiencein. She can hear my wife whisper across the room... That's not something I would associate with deaf culture...

No, so what...?

No, so what..?

YOu can do, and are doing so many wonderful things... wonderful.

Still, you agree that you have no experience, no clue about raising a deaf child that can hear...

Had I raised a deaf child that couldn't hear, I would be using sign and I would drive the 1000 km in order to get in contact with peers.
SInce this is not the case, I don't need to drive that far, since all the stimulation - in a communication sense of the way - she gets from any person around her. People she knows and people she doesn't know...!
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In answer to the so what: On both instances, it means that your experience is extremely limited and does not fall within the norm for the deaf population as a whole. Therefore, your experience cannot be genralized tot he entire population.

Given your definition f hearing--my son can hear. As long as he wears his aids, he has the ability to perceive sound. He simply chooses to rely on those skills that better serve his complete comprehension--unaided hearing and sign. And, as stated, I do work with young adults who were implanted as children, I am in a position to determine the ways in which their needs have not been met. Their parents didn't think they needed sign, either. Funny that they all use terps in class now that they have reached the age where they can make their own needs known. I watch as they deaf students and the deaf studies and interpreting students gather in groups to socialize because contact with peers is not just desirable, it is necessary.
 
shel90 said:
Wow..that sounds like my mother when it came to raising me..she used to say "I don't need this or that or My daughter doesn't need this or that." She used to tell people that I do just fine with my hearing peers. I fooled her and myself too big time growing up. U just brought back memories with those comment...interesting.
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Sorry to bring back those memories....

You're still comparing a deaf child that cannot (or hardly) hear with a deaf child that can hear....

Just as a reality-check.....
Would you have been able to carry a conversation with someone in another room.... Lotte can,
Can you understand someone who's whispering behind the hand.... Lotte can...
And BTW, Lotte is not a special case.... She's not unique.... she's like many
, many other children.
 
Cloggy said:
Sorry to bring back those memories....

You're still comparing a deaf child that cannot (or hardly) hear with a deaf child that can hear....

Just as a reality-check.....
Would you have been able to carry a conversation with someone in another room.... Lotte can,
Can you understand someone who's whispering behind the hand.... Lotte can...
And BTW, Lotte is not a special case.... She's not unique.... she's like many
, many other children.
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Did I say I was comparing? No..just that reading your comments rang a bell cuz my mom used to say almost the same things.

That was all.
 
Cloggy said:
My apologies....
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Apology accepted. :)

Honestly, I wish my mom would join this site and share her experiences. I am sure she can relate to u in some areas, Cloggy while I cant. There are still some things my mom and I still disagree strongly when it comes to my deafness. I am not sure if she still sees me as her "hearing" child. She didnt accept the idea of me going to Gallaudet at first. It is so strange cuz she saw my brother as her "deaf" child not me.
 
shel90 said:
Apology accepted. :)

Honestly, I wish my mom would join this site and share her experiences. I am sure she can relate to u in some areas, Cloggy while I cant. There are still some things my mom and I still disagree strongly when it comes to my deafness. I am not sure if she still sees me as her "hearing" child. She didnt accept the idea of me going to Gallaudet at first. It is so strange cuz she saw my brother as her "deaf" child not me.
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Actually, that would be great to hear from a parent that raised a deaf child pre-CI age.....
But then again, looking how much trash parents of deaf children (with CI...) get thrown in their face, your mother might not look forward to get all the crap from frustrated people thrown into her face.

But again, her point of view would be very interesting. I'm not sure if there is someone like that on AllDeaf.... and it would be great to learn from her, see her point of view related to the times that you grew up..
 
Cloggy said:
Actually, that would be great to hear from a parent that raised a deaf child pre-CI age.....
But then again, looking how much trash parents of deaf children (with CI...) get thrown in their face, your mother might not look forward to get all the crap from frustrated people thrown into her face.

But again, her point of view would be very interesting. I'm not sure if there is someone like that on AllDeaf.... and it would be great to learn from her, see her point of view related to the times that you grew up..
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I do believe that shel has shared with us that her mother now admits that some of her decisions were not the best for shel, but that her intentions were good, and she was only doing what she was advised to do. From shel's postings, I do not believe that she has hard feelings over it, and completely understands that her needs were not neglected intentionally. In fact, shel tries very hard to get others to understand that simply because a parent's intentions are good, and they are following the advise of the "experts" doesn't mean that there will be no negative consequences for the child. She not only lived through this, she works with children daily that are going through it. Shel is not mean spirited, not is she attempting to lay blame on any parent. She simply tries to impart the knowledge that will allow parents to see all sides and possibly prevent some of these unintentional errors in judgement from happening. And I for one admire shel's mother for being able to admit that, even though she did her best, she made some mistakes. That takes wisdom and humility. I see where shel gets her strength of character.
 
jillio said:
I do believe that shel has shared with us that her mother now admits that some of her decisions were not the best for shel, but that her intentions were good, and she was only doing what she was advised to do. From shel's postings, I do not believe that she has hard feelings over it, and completely understands that her needs were not neglected intentionally. In fact, shel tries very hard to get others to understand that simply because a parent's intentions are good, and they are following the advise of the "experts" doesn't mean that there will be no negative consequences for the child. She not only lived through this, she works with children daily that are going through it. Shel is not mean spirited, not is she attempting to lay blame on any parent. She simply tries to impart the knowledge that will allow parents to see all sides and possibly prevent some of these unintentional errors in judgement from happening. And I for one admire shel's mother for being able to admit that, even though she did her best, she made some mistakes. That takes wisdom and humility. I see where shel gets her strength of character.
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Thank u!! Wow..I feel flattered..I just read this after my boss just told me that every class that were under me has always improved dramatically with their reading and writing levels. I told him that he is just making me feel better and he said that he was serious. Wow..two flatteries in one day. Thanks.

Well, the reason I think that Cloggy and my mom would be able to relate on some points is that my mom thinks, even after admitting her mistakes regarding me, that I should get a CI. When I told her no that I wasn't interested, she got upset with me. She keeps telling me that my life would be better with a CI. Maybe it would be but I have come a long and hard road to get to where I am about accepting myself and my flaws. Finally, I am happy with who I am and my deafness. She still doesn't understand that. I am not even mad cuz that's her view but we do get into bickering arguments like I did here with Cloggy and Others about sign labguage and CIs. It does hurt a little bit that she still doesn't see me as a person who is just fine as who she is especally with her deafness. She sees my brother that way but not with me. She said that no way my brother should get a CI. Oh well
 
shel90 said:
Thank u!! Wow..I feel flattered..I just read this after my boss just told me that every class that were under me has always improved dramatically with their reading and writing levels. I told him that he is just making me feel better and he said that he was serious. Wow..two flatteries in one day. Thanks.

Well, the reason I think that Cloggy and my mom would be able to relate on some points is that my mom thinks, even after admitting her mistakes regarding me, that I should get a CI. When I told her no that I wasn't interested, she got upset with me. She keeps telling me that my life would be better with a CI. Maybe it would be but I have come a long and hard road to get to where I am about accepting myself and my flaws. Finally, I am happy with who I am and my deafness. She still doesn't understand that. I am not even mad cuz that's her view but we do get into bickering arguments like I did here with Cloggy and Others about sign labguage and CIs. It does hurt a little bit that she still doesn't see me as a person who is just fine as who she is especally with her deafness. She sees my brother that way but not with me. She said that no way my brother should get a CI. Oh well
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Congratulations on your classes! That's wonderful. I wish our deaf kids had more teachers like you. Some people it seems, never get over that view of deafness as a pathology and something that needs to be fixed. We still hang ontothat philosophy that started withthe Milan Congress and led to students being separated according to level of deafness and ability to achieve oral skills. We tend to classify those with oral skills as "partially hearing" rather than deaf, and those without oral skills as deaf. Still basing everything on the hearing perspective. I've just about decided that the people who don't get it just don't wnat to get it. Nor do they understand that good intentions do not get good results everytime.
 
jillio said:
Congratulations on your classes! That's wonderful. I wish our deaf kids had more teachers like you. Some people it seems, never get over that view of deafness as a pathology and something that needs to be fixed. We still hang ontothat philosophy that started withthe Milan Congress and led to students being separated according to level of deafness and ability to achieve oral skills. We tend to classify those with oral skills as "partially hearing" rather than deaf, and those without oral skills as deaf. Still basing everything on the hearing perspective. I've just about decided that the people who don't get it just don't wnat to get it. Nor do they understand that good intentions do not get good results everytime.
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:ty:

All the teachers at my work have the same views as I do. We are still trying to work out how to implement the CI program. We will have a meeting about that next Tuesday about next year's goals for the CI program. Will be interesting. One thing we do not want is to separate the CI users from the non CI users. Everything is so complicated these days due to the NCLB law. :roll:
 
shel90 said:
:ty:

All the teachers at my work have the same views as I do. We are still trying to work out how to implement the CI program. We will have a meeting about that next Tuesday about next year's goals for the CI program. Will be interesting. One thing we do not want is to separate the CI users from the non CI users. Everything is so complicated these days due to the NCLB law. :roll:
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Yeah, NCLB does complicate things, and ends up having the opposite effect of what was intended. You have a very progressive program at your school. I would love to observe some time.
 
jillio said:
Yeah, NCLB does complicate things, and ends up having the opposite effect of what was intended. You have a very progressive program at your school. I would love to observe some time.
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U are more than welcome to come and observe any time u want. :)
 
jillio said:
Congratulations on your classes! That's wonderful. I wish our deaf kids had more teachers like you. Some people it seems, never get over that view of deafness as a pathology and something that needs to be fixed. We still hang ontothat philosophy that started withthe Milan Congress and led to students being separated according to level of deafness and ability to achieve oral skills. We tend to classify those with oral skills as "partially hearing" rather than deaf, and those without oral skills as deaf. Still basing everything on the hearing perspective. I've just about decided that the people who don't get it just don't wnat to get it. Nor do they understand that good intentions do not get good results everytime.
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See http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/27292-ag-bell-public-enemy-1-a.html#post510251
 
jillio said:
If I'm reading you message correctly, I am in agreement--A.G. Bell had very good intentions, however, he and his soft eugenics philosophies have not acieved positive results.
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What do u think of his views on sterilizing deaf people so they wont produce deaf children? If that was happening today, ohhh there would be a huge protest!
 
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