why ASL cannot credit as a foreign language?

[Phebe]

I am doing an argument paper and which also my personal concern

my university don't allow students to credit as foreign language requirement.

I think ASL is ready useful to people like me and those who want to be nurse or doctor ( my University has a great pre-health program)

They said ASL, or Sign just don't have a culture.
And it is regarded as a sub-language of English



Here are some of my point of views

Sign has it own culture and deaf people have their own community

since, foreign language aim to provide student anothe culture learning besides their own culture, Sign is a foreign langauge...

so what do you think?

 

[armymech81]

1st, I want to say, I believe in what you say and sign should be a foreign language, but I can see where your school might not think that. I believe a good debator is someone that can perpair a debate for 1 side and still debate for the other side as well. They might be thinking along the lines for the writen language part, with both is the same, just speaking ASL grammer is not even close to English speak.

I can't remember the name of the book, but the sign language book that my wife bought me when we started dating stated that ASL was the 4th largest foreign language. I do know some states declear ASL is a foreign language, since the English language is based on speaking. If that book states that, then the goverment must look at ASL as a foreign language.

Also, out of dictionary.com, this is what I got from the following words:

American Sign Language 
a visual-gesture language, having its own semantic and syntactic structure, used by deaf people in the U.S. and English-speaking parts of Canada. Abbreviation: ASL
Also called Ameslan.

[Origin: 1960–65]

English Language

n : an Indo-European language belonging to the West Germanic branch; the official language of Britain and the United States and most of the Commonwealth countries [syn: English, English language]

lan‧guage [lang-gwij] Pronunciation
–noun
1. a body of words and the systems for their use common to a people who are of the same community or nation, the same geographical area, or the same cultural tradition: the two languages of Belgium; a Bantu language; the French language; the Yiddish language.
2. communication by voice in the distinctively human manner, using arbitrary sounds in conventional ways with conventional meanings; speech.
3. the system of linguistic signs or symbols considered in the abstract (opposed to speech).
4. any set or system of such symbols as used in a more or less uniform fashion by a number of people, who are thus enabled to communicate intelligibly with one another.
5. any system of formalized symbols, signs, sounds, gestures, or the like used or conceived as a means of communicating thought, emotion, etc.: the language of mathematics; sign language.
6. the means of communication used by animals: the language of birds.
7. communication of meaning in any way; medium that is expressive, significant, etc.: the language of flowers; the language of art.
8. linguistics; the study of language.
9. the speech or phraseology peculiar to a class, profession, etc.; lexis; jargon.
10. a particular manner of verbal expression: flowery language.
11. choice of words or style of writing; diction: the language of poetry.
12. Computers. a set of characters and symbols and syntactic rules for their combination and use, by means of which a computer can be given directions: The language of many commercial application programs is COBOL.
13. a nation or people considered in terms of their speech.
14. Archaic. faculty or power of speech.
[Origin: 1250–1300; ME < AF, var. sp. of langage, deriv. of langue tongue. See lingua, -age]

I also looked up Sign Language and Spoken Language, and I got definitions out of both, but you want, you can get it from the website. The English language, based on the definition, is from the Germanic language, but ASL is souly based on the American culture, it not based on Germanic, just use the same spelling. I hope that helps a little.

 

[Sunshine1]

I'm surprised that your university don't use ASL course as foreign language credit. I'm wondering what university is it if you don't mind my asking? I do know some other colleges do accept and I thought all colleges and universities are the same in USA. I believe it should and it's very useful at least for the future more than any other foriegn languages.

I am doing an argument paper and which also my personal concern

my university don't allow students to credit as foreign language requirement.

I think ASL is ready useful to people like me and those who want to be nurse or doctor ( my University has a great pre-health program)

They said ASL, or Sign just don't have a culture.
And it is regarded as a sub-language of English



Here are some of my point of views

Sign has it own culture and deaf people have their own community

since, foreign language aim to provide student anothe culture learning besides their own culture, Sign is a foreign langauge...

so what do you think?

 

[vithios]

I am doing an argument paper and which also my personal concern

my university don't allow students to credit as foreign language requirement.

I think ASL is ready useful to people like me and those who want to be nurse or doctor ( my University has a great pre-health program)

They said ASL, or Sign just don't have a culture.
And it is regarded as a sub-language of English



Here are some of my point of views

Sign has it own culture and deaf people have their own community

since, foreign language aim to provide student anothe culture learning besides their own culture, Sign is a foreign langauge...

so what do you think?

Well, I can see where your University is coming from. American Sign Language is well American, so technically making it a language here in America; and not a foreign language like French or Russian. Then with culture, Deaf people who use ASL are Americans. They have most of America's traditions. Deaf people still go watch baseball games, they watch movies, they eat hotdogs and popcorn, just like an ordinary American. What I want to know is, what is so Different about Deaf culture and the American culture???? Now I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, I'm just stating points that I see here. I respect Deaf people but I'm an unbias person. So please I don't want any hurtful remarks or anything similar.

 

[armymech81]

Well, I can see where your University is coming from. American Sign Language is well American, so technically making it a language here in America; and not a foreign language like French or Russian. Then with culture, Deaf people who use ASL are Americans. They have most of America's traditions. Deaf people still go watch baseball games, they watch movies, they eat hotdogs and popcorn, just like an ordinary American. What I want to know is, what is so Different about Deaf culture and the American culture???? Now I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, I'm just stating points that I see here. I respect Deaf people but I'm an unbias person. So please I don't want any hurtful remarks or anything similar.

I can see too, and I don't want you think that I am trying to hurt you or put you or the deaf culture down, but the Deaf Culture is a completly different enity itself. The hearing world is based on sound, sound from the overhead abt events going on, like in airports, train stations etc. Radios in the car, or any kind of entertanment around the city. The Hearing culture lives around the busy sounds. They live off of sound. The deaf culture is a foreign country within the country. They are like the Mexician that lives with their family, or the Chinesse, or the German, French, or what other country there is. There are a lot of ppl out there that don't know how to speak English, so why does the Deaf Culture get left out when they can't speak it with their month? If you want ASL to be the main language like English is, then it has to be taught in school along with the spoken English. Also, with that, you have to teach the deaf ppl the proper grammer with their deaf schools along with speach classes with them. That will not happen in most of the deaf schools, cause they just push them throw and not try to teach the deaf at that level. How I know, easy, I taught my wife most of her grammer, not her Deaf School. In my eye, and I would love to have a debate about it, is that ASL and the Deaf Culture is in fact a foreign language and group in the US. Only common link they have is they are born in the states and write the same.

 

[Southern]

That is very strange. In my state, FL it is recognized as a foriegn language and you get credit for it in all of the colleges. I know because i am taking ASL currently. The US does not have an official language but english is the most common although french and spanish have always been spoken here. Not to mention the native languages. I don't think that is right...... Me being me i would do some digging. I would try to find a discrimination attorney to see if your state recognizes ASL as a language. Maybe the ACLU? If your state does recognize it check to see if a school can deny ASL like that. Although if you go to a private school they fall under different rules than the state colleges do.
As to Deaf people having a culture. I am southern and VERY proud of that fact. I am also American. Southerners have our own culture and if you try and tell a southener we aren't different from the rest of the country look out! Deaf people have their very specific cultural norms which i am learning being with my Deaf friends. I would have to say that the professor who told you that is a VERY ignorant person. And me being me i would question that persons credentials of teaching. When the majority of the nation recognizes ASL as a foriegn language and Deaf culture as a distinct culture your school i am sorry to say seems very backwards and left behind the rest. Maybe change schools??? just a thought.

 

[Reba]

... I would try to find a discrimination attorney to see if your state recognizes ASL as a language. Maybe the ACLU? If your state does recognize it check to see if a school can deny ASL like that...

Even if ASL is accepted as a "foreign" language, I doubt that any school can be forced to teach it as such. As it is, no college offers every possible language. They don't even offer all the more "common" languages. I don't think a lawyer can force a college to determine course offerings and requirements.

If you can find out the procedure for requesting new course offerings, and follow that procedure, you might have a chance. I have a hearing friend who is doing that now. She wants to introduce ASL courses at a local college, so she has tackled the process, which requires research, petitions, etc.

 

[jillio]

Well, I can see where your University is coming from. American Sign Language is well American, so technically making it a language here in America; and not a foreign language like French or Russian. Then with culture, Deaf people who use ASL are Americans. They have most of America's traditions. Deaf people still go watch baseball games, they watch movies, they eat hotdogs and popcorn, just like an ordinary American. What I want to know is, what is so Different about Deaf culture and the American culture???? Now I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, I'm just stating points that I see here. I respect Deaf people but I'm an unbias person. So please I don't want any hurtful remarks or anything similar.

Sorry, but William Stokoe changed that way of thinking 50 years ago. ASL is a separate and complete language, with its own syntax, its own representations of concepts specific to those who rely on the visual for communication, markers specific to ASL, etc, etc, etc. It is a language that arose out of culture--culture is after all shared experience and language. The University where I am employed (and working on my graduate degree) does offer ASL as a foreign language, and many major universities do likewise.

I don't mean to be hurtful, either, but if you want some valid academic information regarding Deaf culture I would suggest you start with a book called "When the Mind Hears" by Harlan Lane. He also co-authored several more definitive works regarding Deaf culture. Another, more condensed volume that is a bit easier to read is a book by Oliver Sacks: "Seeing Voices."

Leave it to say, that it is generally accepted in academia that ASL in indeed a foreign language, and that Deaf culture does exist.

 

[Southern]

Reba i didn't mean to imply that she sue her college. Lawyers know much more about law than the rest of us do. I just meant to say that if her state recognizes ASL as a forgein language then she could use that as an argument for her paper to show the school that the should offer it. I guess i should have orriginally said that huh?? LOL

 

[dsw20t]

Sorry, but William Stokoe changed that way of thinking 50 years ago. ASL is a separate and complete language, with its own syntax, its own representations of concepts specific to those who rely on the visual for communication, markers specific to ASL, etc, etc, etc. It is a language that arose out of culture--culture is after all shared experience and language.

I have to agree with Jillio that ASL is indeed a foreign language. Simply because a person is born of a particular language, it doesn't mean that they'll be using the same form of communication as everyone else. The American Sign Language syntax (sentence structure) and semantics (the meaning) are applied differently from spoken and written American English...just as it is from French, Mandarin, Japanese, etc. As stated above, it is from a culture (the Deaf culture, that is) that ASL became what it is today. In addition, a lot of people think that ASL is signed word-for-word or signed as the spoken language, but the fact that it has it's own structure, it clearly indicates that it is not a sub-language. In sum, if ASL could be regarded as a foreign language, I'd say "Heck Yeah."

 

[Interpretrator]

They said ASL, or Sign just don't have a culture.
And it is regarded as a sub-language of English

Those are the exact reasons why many colleges still don't accept ASL as a foreign language. Even if they do accept it as a language and not a dialect of English, there is the notion that there isn't a culture associated with it. This was the case for many years at the school where I went through my ITP, although they finally turned around on the issue (as more and more schools are).

I would say collect as many resources as you can to show that there is a culture associated with ASL. "Into the Deaf-World" by Lane, Hoffmeister, and Bahan is a good book for this purpose. Write a persuasive report, citing your references, and submit it to whoever is in charge of these things.

 

[Ephesians2_8]

I am doing an argument paper and which also my personal concern

my university don't allow students to credit as foreign language requirement.

I think ASL is ready useful to people like me and those who want to be nurse or doctor ( my University has a great pre-health program)

They said ASL, or Sign just don't have a culture.
And it is regarded as a sub-language of English



Here are some of my point of views

Sign has it own culture and deaf people have their own community

since, foreign language aim to provide student anothe culture learning besides their own culture, Sign is a foreign langauge...

so what do you think?

I am glad my local area offer ASL as a foreign language in public schools. There are teachers who get severe HOH students now and then who knows ASL . My sister and I are severe HOH, near profound, and attended mainstreamed public school from elementary to high school. I think I would communicate with teachers alot better if they could ASL. Severe HOH still need a friend who we can relax and talk to. We can't continue to learn how to function the hearing world and have no one to talk to without feeling frustrated. It is like a spanish student who is just learning to speak English, but yet he can't communicate clearly enough vents his frustration in English. All it does is create more frustration. But if someone could speak Spanish, he can relax and feel better.

 

[Southern]

No culture associated with ASL??? Have the people who say such things ever had any interaction with Deaf? There is a definate culture. Just as southern people have distinct culture, (those from other parts of the country may disagree but anyone who is truely southern will tell you there is a difference). Deaf have a distince culture with cultural norms and things that are polite and not and so on. ASL is a huge part of that.

 

[Serendipity]

I have to agree with Jillio that ASL is indeed a foreign language. Simply because a person is born of a particular language, it doesn't mean that they'll be using the same form of communication as everyone else. The American Sign Language syntax (sentence structure) and semantics (the meaning) are applied differently from spoken and written American English...just as it is from French, Mandarin, Japanese, etc. As stated above, it is from a culture (the Deaf culture, that is) that ASL became what it is today. In addition, a lot of people think that ASL is signed word-for-word or signed as the spoken language, but the fact that it has it's own structure, it clearly indicates that it is not a sub-language. In sum, if ASL could be regarded as a foreign language, I'd say "Heck Yeah."

Well done!

 

[Gobae]

It is accepted as a foreign language in NY State at both the College and HS levels.

 

[eliotj]

locally, ASL qualifies as a foreign language and has for several years.
At least 7 years.

It is now also offered in some of our high schools as a foreign language

 

[The*Empress]

I don't know why Spanish and ASL should be foreign language...

because some Hispanics and deaf people live here in USA...

USA is really an international country, everybody move here
from different country.

Should be under "Cultural Languages"

 

[Interpretrator]

I don't know why Spanish and ASL should be foreign language...

Because as we've been saying there is a culture associated with them.

Should be under "Cultural Languages"

There is no such thing. Language and culture are interrelated and there are no natural languages that are "uncultural."

 

[jillio]

Because as we've been saying there is a culture associated with them.



There is no such thing. Language and culture are interrelated and there are no natural languages that are "uncultural."

Exactly. Language is dependant upon culture, and develops as a direct result of such.

 

[armymech81]

I don't know why Spanish and ASL should be foreign language...

because some Hispanics and deaf people live here in USA...

USA is really an international country, everybody move here
from different country.

Should be under "Cultural Languages"

Saying that is like that a deaf person needs to learn brail and a blind person needs to learn how to read normal writing. The US language is English, so everyone in the US needs to know English, unless they have something that provents them from learning part of it. I am in a foreign country and I am going to do my best to learn both German and GSL. I feel the same for anyone that wants to stay in the States for a long period of time(anything more then a year). Also, with that, then the Deaf schools and all school systems should teach only in English or CUEd speach, since they are mostly on grammer then ASL. ASL should be thrown out the window since it has it's own culture and grammer to it. That post just has soo many loop holes. Sorry, I am not going to learn Spanish in my own damn country when the language is English.