Why Are Men Dominating the Debate About Birth Control for Women?

[Journey]

The 'data' argument began because Rolling stated that in forming a conclusion one does not need any data to back up their stance, only logic, because data can be flawed. I pointed out that logic can be flawed. I then further qualified my position on the importance of not just relying on one's on 'logic' by saying, "...ignoring historical facts/data can (and often does) lead to illogical arguments and conclusions."

I do not want to get into a rather irrelevent argument here. Yes clearly if data is manipulated or falsified, the conclusion resulting from that data is misleading. I gave a link that supported one of my conjectures in this debate, one I believe contains facts from reliable data. Rolling blew it off to stick to his own 'logic' yet has not provided any concrete support for it.

The bottom line is, I believe my opinions are valid as they are supported by both data and facts. Rolling believes his opinions are valid based on his own logic. If someone can provide me with data/facts that are in direct opposition to my stance, I will certainly accept them and use them to modify my opinion - that's how I learn.

 

[Beowulf]

The 'data' argument began because Rolling stated that in forming a conclusion one does not need any data to back up their stance, only logic, because data can be flawed. I pointed out that logic can be flawed. I then further qualified my position on the importance of not just relying on one's on 'logic' by saying, "...ignoring historical facts/data can (and often does) lead to illogical arguments and conclusions."

I do not want to get into a rather irrelevent argument here. Yes clearly if data is manipulated or falsified, the conclusion resulting from that data is misleading. I gave a link that supported one of my conjectures in this debate, one I believe contains facts from reliable data. Rolling blew it off to stick to his own 'logic' yet has not provided any concrete support for it.

The bottom line is, I believe my opinions are valid as they are supported by both data and facts. Rolling believes his opinions are valid based on his own logic. If someone can provide me with data/facts that are in direct opposition to my stance, I will certainly accept them and use them to modify my opinion - that's how I learn.

It is sort of like solving an algbebra problem, isn't it? If you make an error in your solving equations, all data following it is rendered incorrect.

 

[Berry]

Harassment! That is a joke back in the days. I had plenty of buddies who would beat your butt for harassment of their sister.

Sisters, mothers, friends. True. We took care of our own problems back then. The ones who were successfully harassed by bosses or others were those who had no one to take up for them.

A lot has changed. As you posted, Journey has not been able to post a rate of pregnancies for the '50s and '60s but I lived back then and I know what the kids thought. We did not dare think about having sex (although the urge was there) until we were out of our parents home. That was the prevailing attitude back then. Parents did instruct their own kids in sex education, as oppose to sex education in schools today. Parents did tell their kids NOT to have sex, as oppose to parents today saying: "Use protection".

.

Are you kidding?

I was alive then. Everybody was screwing, or talking about screwing. We thought the stage under the auditorium was put there for us to do it in. All the girls were reading "Candy" by Terry Southern. If you weren't a latchkey kid you knew a latchkey kid. There was always a place to go to have sex. There weren't as many different kinds of drugs then as there are now, and they weren't as strong, but there was plenty to go around if you wanted some. True, there were kids who weren't having sex, but those were in the minority - And a lot of those weren't because of belief or lack of desire, it was because nobody wanted them.

In the sixites the hippies hit and we didn't have sex parties, we had sex parks. Everybody either had a van or knew somebody who did. "Free Love" was the slogan of the day.

I remember driving down towards Carmel. A guy was hitch hiking. His sign said "Good Drugs". A hundred feet further down was a girl, also holding a sign. Hers said, "Better Sex".

Whittier boulevard in L.A. was the cruise capital of the world. You could ride standing in the backs of pickups back then, and some rode standing on the tops of VW busses. Girls from fourteen to forty would go by flashing their chests at whoever would look.

It was a great time to be young. Sorry you missed it.

 

[Berry]

Oh yes, I believe you've used this crackpot idea ("nature never, ever changes") as a way to justify your homophobia (i.e. homosexuality is not natural because of the sex acts it involves), among other things.

I got one word for ya: EVOLUTION.

I don't recall if you're of the belief that the world is only six thousand years old or not, but regardless, can you please answer me this one question: Why do men have nipples?

And in those days there were whaling captains, and a tiny few did take their wives. One captain's wife died after giving birth.

And when he steered into port, he was holding the mast with one hand, and holding his nursing baby to his breast with the other.

In emergencies men can, and have, nursed babies.

And besides, for some of us, a woman's attention can make them feel soooo good.

 

[Berry]

They would only understand if they're pragmatically educated about sex and the responsibilities that come with it. Unfortunately, that's what's lacking the most. Sorry but just saying "keep your knees shut" is not the answer.

One of my daughters asked a doctor, "Is it true if I keep my knees together I won't get pregnant?"

He responded, "It certainly is, young lady."

"Oh, goody," she said. "Does it matter which side I lay on?"

 

[rockin'robin]

One of my daughters asked a doctor, "Is it true if I keep my knees together I won't get pregnant?"

He responded, "It certainly is, young lady."

"Oh, goody," she said. "Does it matter which side I lay on?"

 

[rolling7]

The only time I had a dealing with "Candy" by Terry Southern (I was a high school soph.) was to learn several boys and girls were kicked out of school for having a copy and/or sharing.
Back then the rules were strick and having "Candy" was the equivalent of having drugs in school today.

 

[rolling7]

Sisters, mothers, friends. True. We took care of our own problems back then. The ones who were successfully harassed by bosses or others were those who had no one to take up for them.







Are you kidding?

I was alive then. Everybody was screwing, or talking about screwing. We thought the stage under the auditorium was put there for us to do it in. All the girls were reading "Candy" by Terry Southern. If you weren't a latchkey kid you knew a latchkey kid. There was always a place to go to have sex. There weren't as many different kinds of drugs then as there are now, and they weren't as strong, but there was plenty to go around if you wanted some. True, there were kids who weren't having sex, but those were in the minority - And a lot of those weren't because of belief or lack of desire, it was because nobody wanted them.

In the sixites the hippies hit and we didn't have sex parties, we had sex parks. Everybody either had a van or knew somebody who did. "Free Love" was the slogan of the day.

I remember driving down towards Carmel. A guy was hitch hiking. His sign said "Good Drugs". A hundred feet further down was a girl, also holding a sign. Hers said, "Better Sex".

Whittier boulevard in L.A. was the cruise capital of the world. You could ride standing in the backs of pickups back then, and some rode standing on the tops of VW busses. Girls from fourteen to forty would go by flashing their chests at whoever would look.

It was a great time to be young. Sorry you missed it.

I'm not sorry because I did not miss it, I just did not join in the hippie movement.
I have more respect for myself and others.

The times I was taking us back to were the mid-40's and 50's.

 

[Reba]

Are you kidding?

I was alive then. Everybody was screwing, or talking about screwing. We thought the stage under the auditorium was put there for us to do it in. All the girls were reading "Candy" by Terry Southern. If you weren't a latchkey kid you knew a latchkey kid. There was always a place to go to have sex. There weren't as many different kinds of drugs then as there are now, and they weren't as strong, but there was plenty to go around if you wanted some. True, there were kids who weren't having sex, but those were in the minority - And a lot of those weren't because of belief or lack of desire, it was because nobody wanted them.

In the sixites the hippies hit and we didn't have sex parties, we had sex parks. Everybody either had a van or knew somebody who did. "Free Love" was the slogan of the day.

I remember driving down towards Carmel. A guy was hitch hiking. His sign said "Good Drugs". A hundred feet further down was a girl, also holding a sign. Hers said, "Better Sex".

Whittier boulevard in L.A. was the cruise capital of the world. You could ride standing in the backs of pickups back then, and some rode standing on the tops of VW busses. Girls from fourteen to forty would go by flashing their chests at whoever would look.

It was a great time to be young. Sorry you missed it.

Wow, I'm glad that I missed that! I attended two high schools in San Diego, and two in Connecticut, from 1965 to 1969, and it was nothing like that. I was a latchkey kid but that didn't lead me into a life of debauchery.

I'm sure that not all my classmates were angels but whatever it was they might be doing I never even heard any gossip about.

 

[Reba]

The only time I had a dealing with "Candy" by Terry Southern (I was a high school soph.) was to learn several boys and girls were kicked out of school for having a copy and/or sharing.
Back then the rules were strick and having "Candy" was the equivalent of having drugs in school today.

You've got one up on me. I never even heard of it until Berry's post.

 

[TXgolfer]

Are you kidding?

I was alive then. Everybody was screwing, or talking about screwing. We thought the stage under the auditorium was put there for us to do it in. All the girls were reading "Candy" by Terry Southern. If you weren't a latchkey kid you knew a latchkey kid. There was always a place to go to have sex. There weren't as many different kinds of drugs then as there are now, and they weren't as strong, but there was plenty to go around if you wanted some. True, there were kids who weren't having sex, but those were in the minority - And a lot of those weren't because of belief or lack of desire, it was because nobody wanted them.

In the sixites the hippies hit and we didn't have sex parties, we had sex parks. Everybody either had a van or knew somebody who did. "Free Love" was the slogan of the day.

I remember driving down towards Carmel. A guy was hitch hiking. His sign said "Good Drugs". A hundred feet further down was a girl, also holding a sign. Hers said, "Better Sex".

Whittier boulevard in L.A. was the cruise capital of the world. You could ride standing in the backs of pickups back then, and some rode standing on the tops of VW busses. Girls from fourteen to forty would go by flashing their chests at whoever would look.

It was a great time to be young. Sorry you missed it.

Glad I missed it.

 

[Berry]

The only time I had a dealing with "Candy" by Terry Southern (I was a high school soph.) was to learn several boys and girls were kicked out of school for having a copy and/or sharing.
Back then the rules were strick and having "Candy" was the equivalent of having drugs in school today.

Oh, yes. They were strict. And yes, teachers had to supervise and censor what the kids were reading, not just "Candy" either -- No science fiction, no fantasy, yada yada yada.

Strict included clothing: Boys had to have "White walls" around their ears, even if they were black kids. It was almost a military cut. Girls had to wear dresses and they had to be longer than fingertip length. One went to the wayward girls school for insisting on wearing culottes.

I never went to high school so I escaped the biggest brunt of it. I can't help but think if the teachers had paid a little more attention to teaching and less attention to making the kids toe the mark on things that had nothing to do with education there might have been a lot fewer drop outs and a lot more learning going on.

 

[Reba]

Oh, yes. They were strict. And yes, teachers had to supervise and censor what the kids were reading, not just "Candy" either -- No science fiction, no fantasy, yada yada yada.

Our high school not only allowed science fiction, we were assigned science fiction to read. I remember Childhood's End was one of the novels we were required to read and discuss, and several sic fi short stories.

Strict included clothing: Boys had to have "White walls" around their ears, even if they were black kids. It was almost a military cut.

Pretty much the same for our guys. No facial hair or sideburns, and hair couldn't cover the shirt collar. No t-shirts allowed, just button-down shirts, and they had to be tucked in. No jeans allowed, and they had to wear belts with their pants.

Girls had to wear dresses and they had to be longer than fingertip length. One went to the wayward girls school for insisting on wearing culottes.

Unless the girls at your school had extra long arms, I'm guessing they wore their skirts shorter than they did at my schools. Our skirts could only be just above the knee.

I never went to high school so I escaped the biggest brunt of it. I can't help but think if the teachers had paid a little more attention to teaching and less attention to making the kids toe the mark on things that had nothing to do with education there might have been a lot fewer drop outs and a lot more learning going on.

I never heard of anyone dropping out of school just because of the dress code. I don't think any of the parents would have backed up their children for doing that.

 

[Berry]

I'm not sorry because I did not miss it, I just did not join in the hippie movement.
I have more respect for myself and others.

The times I was taking us back to were the mid-40's and 50's.

I was talking about the 50's on through the 60's.

I wasn't a hippie either. Not because I had so all fired much respect for myself, but because I couldn't adhere to their "turn the other cheek" attitude. I always admired their ability to do what Christians claimed was Christ like, never fight back no matter what people did to you, but I personally could never follow such a path. They were able to forgive their enemies no matter what. I couldn't do that.

I've always wondered why people who worship a devote pacifist always hated with such a passion the only group of people I ever met who actually were.

 

[Berry]

Wow, I'm glad that I missed that! I attended two high schools in San Diego, and two in Connecticut, from 1965 to 1969, and it was nothing like that. I was a latchkey kid but that didn't lead me into a life of debauchery.

I'm sure that not all my classmates were angels but whatever it was they might be doing I never even heard any gossip about.

Being a latchkey kid doesn't lead to debauchery any more than having access to drugs or alcohol makes one a drug addict or an alcoholic or cigarettes a smoker. I've had access to all of them my entire life. I've never smoked or done drugs and I drink very little. (I'd drink more but I keep forgetting to buy beer when I'm at the store.)

Wouldn't know about high school. Never went.

 

[Berry]

Glad I missed it.

Glad I was there!

 

[TWA]

Glad I was there!

I'm glad there are people of your generation that think like you!

 

[rolling7]

I was talking about the 50's on through the 60's.

I wasn't a hippie either. Not because I had so all fired much respect for myself, but because I couldn't adhere to their "turn the other cheek" attitude. I always admired their ability to do what Christians claimed was Christ like, never fight back no matter what people did to you, but I personally could never follow such a path. They were able to forgive their enemies no matter what. I couldn't do that.

I've always wondered why people who worship a devote pacifist always hated with such a passion the only group of people I ever met who actually were.

I'm almost sure you know about the Jesus whom took a whip to the money changers. This is why the Christians of today must speak out about actions that God has declared sinful. One can not sit on the sideline.

On a side note, are you aware that Jesus in the Bible supported the death penalty?
Yes, He did.

 

[TWA]

I'm almost sure you know about the Jesus whom took a whip to the money changers. This is why the Christians of today must speak out about actions that God has declared sinful. One can not sit on the sideline.

Yeah, like how Christians stand up to the sin of usury . . . oh wait.

On a side note, are you aware that Jesus in the Bible supported the death penalty?
Yes, He did.

How do you figure that? Because he allowed himself to be a victim of it? Or because there is a specific quote where he condones it?

 

[Beowulf]

Yeah, like how Christians stand up to the sin of usury . . . oh wait.



How do you figure that? Because he allowed himself to be a victim of it? Or because there is a specific quote where he condones it?

I've been told that because while he was being crucified, he didn't do anything to prevent the deaths of the two guys who died with him. They say it proves he supports the death penalty. I always ask if it also proves he supports torture, and they stutter and stammer.