Why adults choose CI's for their children

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rockdrummer said:
I guess l interpreted a bit differently than you. What I got was; they want to discuss it with the child and make the decision together. I am am trying to understand that position better which is what the thread here is about.
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Good point.. but that is valid for both choices. I will also discuss it with Lotte - hearing or deaf.
It is still the parent that makes the decision of how the child grows up.
 
Cloggy said:
Good point.. but that is valid for both choices. I will also discuss it with Lotte - hearing or deaf.
It is still the parent that makes the decision of how the child grows up.
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The reality is that a child up to a certian age will be highly influnced by their parents. Since the parent will be able to eaisly sway the child towards their beliefs it would only be a fair discussion if the parent were completly objective and just presented the facts. Assuming the parent is not influenced one way or the other and just presents the information from both sides; how old would your child have to be before you can feel confident that the child comprehends the information and is capable of making a sound decision? If you have an opinion on that, click here to cast your vote.
 
rockdrummer said:
Thanks Shel. I commend your dedication to these children. I too have some exposure to children with other special needs. These children tend to have difficulties communicating even if they can hear. Obviously each case will be different. Having said that, I wonder if some of what you are seeing is related to other special needs. I won't argue that the parents should do as much as they can but you have to remember, in some cases, there is only so much you can do at a given point. Then you wait for the next milestone and make adjustments.

I guess all I am saying is to give folks the benefit of the doubt unless you know for a fact they are slacking in their parenting. Especially when it comes to parenting children with special needs. From your comments I get the impression that you know for a fact they are not doing everything they can. If that is true then I am behind you 100%.
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We have some classes that serve deaf children with additional special needs including cognitive disabilities. It is understandable that those kids are delayed in language in both ASL and reading/writing. They are called ES students.

My students and the students in the other classes who are called transitional students are the ones that dont have any other special needs. They have normal mental and cognitive processing skills but are delayed in language due to the reasons I mentioned before. Many of the oral students that got sent from the public schools to our transitional program have no additional special needs but they are so delayed in language. That is what I dont understand. If the child is not picking up on spoken language by the age of two..why not teach them sign language then? Why teach them sign language at the age of 7, 8, 9 or even older? Why wait so long? Make them suffer in the hearing schools being lost and isolated?

Also, because of those children and the possibility that can happen why not ALL deaf babies regardless of getting implanted or not, get exposed to the spoken language of their country AND sign language at the same time? That is where my big question comes from. What's wrong with that. At first I thought Cloggy refused to sign to her daughter but finally I got corrected by one of her posts later on after arguing with her about her daughter that she did sign to her daughter during the first 2 years before getting the CI. That is such a big relief cuz obviously her daughter wasnt denied language. Whew!

It seems like all the parents who are AD members here understand the importance of sign language. Now how do I get the message across to the hundreds of parents out their that are dead set in the oral only approach as having the ultimate goal of their child being able to hear and speak like them?
 
shel90 said:
We have some classes that serve deaf children with additional special needs including cognitive disabilities. It is understandable that those kids are delayed in language in both ASL and reading/writing. They are called ES students.

My students and the students in the other classes who are called transitional students are the ones that dont have any other special needs. They have normal mental and cognitive processing skills but are delayed in language due to the reasons I mentioned before. Many of the oral students that got sent from the public schools to our transitional program have no additional special needs but they are so delayed in language. That is what I dont understand. If the child is not picking up on spoken language by the age of two..why not teach them sign language then? Why teach them sign language at the age of 7, 8, 9 or even older? Why wait so long? Make them suffer in the hearing schools being lost and isolated?

Also, because of those children and the possibility that can happen why not ALL deaf babies regardless of getting implanted or not, get exposed to the spoken language of their country AND sign language at the same time? That is where my big question comes from. What's wrong with that. At first I thought Cloggy refused to sign to her daughter but finally I got corrected by one of her posts later on after arguing with her about her daughter that she did sign to her daughter during the first 2 years before getting the CI. That is such a big relief cuz obviously her daughter wasnt denied language. Whew!

It seems like all the parents who are AD members here understand the importance of sign language. Now how do I get the message across to the hundreds of parents out their that are dead set in the oral only approach as having the ultimate goal of their child being able to hear and speak like them?
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Let me ask your honest opinion. Do you belive that people who are not able to communicate in a predominatly hearing world are at a disadvantage?
 
rockdrummer said:
Let me ask your honest opinion. Do you belive that people who are not able to communicate in a predominatly hearing world are at a disadvantage?
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As I said before..why not do both? Teach the child spoken language for the reason u mentioned above cuz it would be a good skill to have to communicate with the hearing world and teach them ASL so the chances that the child for some reason doesnt pick up on spoken language will still get access to a language.

Yes, people who are not able to communicate (if u mean verbally) are at a disadvantage but if the child is not able to pick up on spoken English then what can u do? It seems like most people are focused on the children who are able to pick up on spoken English and use them as good examples but forget about the ones that cant. Those are the ones that I am focused on.

Why did my brother struggle to learn how to lipread and speak while it was easy for me even though we had the same degree of hearing loss?

If the child is not able to pick up spoken language and is not exposed to sign language, they are NOT getting a language at all and by the time they are 5 years old, their language development is usually at the age of 1 year old. They wont be ready to learn how to read and write by then when it is in the norm for children to be learning how to read and write. That will put the child at a big disadvantage in school and as an adult with poor reading and writing skills. Who ususally gets the blame? The schools, of course.

If the child who has been exposed to ASL whether it is by parents learning or being in an program that promotes language development thru ASL and offers auditory and speech training too. If that child doesnt do well in the speech training part, at least that child will have a strong L1 language when he/she reaches kindergarden age and be ready to tackle on a 2nd language which is English through reading and writing. As a result, the chances for that child to graduate with a 12th grade or above reading/writing/math skills increase. They can always communicate via pen and paper or interpreters.

If it is all about communicating with the hearing world, then that is sad cuz to me it is all about language access.
 
U know what? Even though I can communicate with hearing people, I am still at a disadvantage cuz at jobs where there is no sign language, I miss out what people are saying at meetings or when my back is turned to them. One time I had a boss who told me that I wasnt qualified to get a higher position because I couldnt hear well enough. :dunno:
 
I gonna say one thing, I agree with shel90 especially on this entire thread.

You could learn something from this woman. ;)
 
rockdrummer said:
Let me ask your honest opinion. Do you belive that people who are not able to communicate in a predominatly hearing world are at a disadvantage?
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My two cents...;)

That is a no-brainer...of course! I could see that when my hearing was going south while wearing a HA. Now with my CI, I'm able to hold my own again and my career ceiling has lifted again to the outmost heights...

It is unfortunate but a self evident truth that especially in the business world...hearing is the equalizer more than anything else. It doesn't hurt to have the education and decent intelligence too...:whistle:
 
shel90 said:
U know what? Even though I can communicate with hearing people, I am still at a disadvantage cuz at jobs where there is no sign language, I miss out what people are saying at meetings or when my back is turned to them. One time I had a boss who told me that I wasnt qualified to get a higher position because I couldnt hear well enough. :dunno:
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Have you ever considerd a CI for yourself. If it works, wouldn't it resolve those issues? If it did resolve the issues, would you still feel at a disadvantage?
 
sr171soars said:
My two cents...;)

That is a no-brainer...of course! I could see that when my hearing was going south while wearing a HA. Now with my CI, I'm able to hold my own again and my career ceiling has lifted again to the outmost heights...

It is unfortunate but a self evident truth that especially in the business world...hearing is the equalizer more than anything else. It doesn't hurt to have the education and decent intelligence too...:whistle:
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Yea u are blessed with all the skills that u have especially with your writing. Dont those deaf children who couldnt benefit from their CIs or were unable pick up on spoken English should have the same opportunity too?

It scares me thinking where I would be if my mom had not ignored the dr's advice and didnt read to me every night. If I hated reading, would my English reading and writing skills be where it is now? Probably not.
 
rockdrummer said:
Have you ever considerd a CI for yourself. If it works, wouldn't it resolve those issues? If it did resolve the issues, would you still feel at a disadvantage?
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I did consider it but what for? My job doesnt require me to read lips nor speak and my husband signs. What do I need it for? If I was majoring in business or have to work with hearing clients, I may consider it but I am really scared. What if it doesnt work for me and left with me no residual hearing? Also, I just do not like the idea of invasive surgery and the risks associated with it. Same thing with the idea of spending my time in therapy agian which is not too appealing. I wont get one just to be able to fit in with my husband's family or my family. I am still sticking to my two hour limit. I need a much better reason to go thru all that and that would be for career advancement but I honestly think I wouldnt be a happy person trying to "hear" cuz I struggled for 28 years doing that. I am burnt out from all the stress associated with it. I am sure other deaf people had better experiences than I did. Mine was just way too stressful. I wish I knew why. :dunno:

All the issues that I had were when I was trying to be "hearing" and was very unhappy at failing to succeed at being hearing. I remember in 1993 or 94, my audiologist did ask me about a CI but when I saw the wires and everything, I was like No way! Now, I have come a long way to get where I am now and I am happy with who I am. I dont need to go back to the hearing world full time unless I lost my job and have to find a job working with hearing people.

Like some deaf people are happy with their CI, I am happy without one. I really do not think it will solve my issues anyway. I need to learn to deal with my issues instead of turning to a CI hoping it will solve all of them. It is not that simple.
 
shel90 said:
Yea u are blessed with all the skills that u have especially with your writing. Dont those deaf children who couldnt benefit from their CIs or were unable pick up on spoken English should have the same opportunity too?

It scares me thinking where I would be if my mom had not ignored the dr's advice and didnt read to me every night. If I hated reading, would my English reading and writing skills be where it is now? Probably not.
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Absolutely! But unfortunately as I said before, hearing is the great equalizer whether we like it or not. Majority rules and that has always been the case and will always be the case. I wish it weren't so...life is never fair.

Yes, I'm very blessed indeed and very thankful everyday. I had my share of struggles so I understand those things too! :D
 
Cheri said:
I gonna say one thing, I agree with shel90 especially on this entire thread.

You could learn something from this woman. ;)
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AWWWW thanks Cheri! :hug:
 
shel90 said:
I did consider it but what for? My job doesnt require me to read lips nor speak and my husband signs. What do I need it for?
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What about living in a predemonatly hearing society? What about communicating with others for things like going to the store, family gatherings. What about if you loose your job. I hear you talk about your frustrations and I am asking if the CI worked, wouldn't that resolve the frustrations? You have done a good job of explaining your position but you have also done a good job of avoiding my questions.



If I was majoring in business or have to work with hearing clients, I may consider it but I am really scared. What if it doesnt work for me and left with me no residual hearing?
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My question to you was assuming for the sake of argument that the CI was successful for you.


I wont get one just to be able to fit in with my husband's family or my family. I am still sticking to my two hour limit. I need a much better reason to go thru all that and that would be for career advancement but I honestly think I wouldnt be a happy person trying to "hear" cuz I struggled for 28 years doing that.
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It wouldn't be just for your family. It would be to have the ability to communicate and not be at a disadvantage. And again, what if you lost your job. My questions to you are assuming the CI option worked for you

I am burnt out from all the stress associated with it. I am sure other deaf people had better experiences than I did. Mine was just way too stressful. I wish I knew why. :dunno:
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That stress is partially associated with you not being able to hear. If the CI allowed you to hear enough wouldn't that eleviate the stress.

I am happy with who I am. I dont need to go back to the hearing world full time unless I lost my job and have to find a job working with hearing people.
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I honestly dont think ones ability to hear or not defines them as a person. I do believe that it would remove barriers and the disadvantages that I am sure all that have hearing loss suffer.

Like some deaf people are happy with their CI, I am happy without one. I really do not think it will solve my issues anyway. I need to learn to deal with my issues instead of turning to a CI hoping it will solve all of them. It is not that simple.
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our personal happiness is very important and I respect your views. The only thing I would say is that if you have made a given choice then you must live with the outcome and accept the cards as they are dealt. Is it fair? hmm.. there are many things in life that are not fair to all of us. If I made a choice that resulted in frustration and that put me at a disadvantage would it be fair for me to complain? After all, my experience and frustration would be a result of my own decision.

Let me pose the question another way. For the sake of argument; If there were 100% success rate with a CI, would you opt for one? What about a 90% success rate. What about if you could turn back time and you were a young child and the CI was available and successful. Knowing what you know today about those that have had success with them, would you choose to have one?
 
rockdrummer said:
What about living in a predemonatly hearing society? What about communicating with others for things like going to the store, family gatherings. What about if you loose your job. I hear you talk about your frustrations and I am asking if the CI worked, wouldn't that resolve the frustrations? You have done a good job of explaining your position but you have also done a good job of avoiding my questions.

I thought I answered it? If I got a job that required me to speak and hear, I may reconsider getting a CI. As for children are concerned, I thought I have said this over and over again..I am not against CIs in children but I believe in exposing children in learning sign language at the same time they are going to speech and listening trainings. If that is not enough an answer for u, then I cant say it another way. I feel that I am starting to sound like a broken record

My personal frustrations stem from my childhood and I cant go back and change that. Currently, I do have some frustrations from time to time but not enough to warrant a life-changing decision. Now, mostly my frustrations stem from the lack of language access for my children. If I never got frustrated then that means I dont care for these children and I shouldnt be a teacher. A good teacher really cares and works hard to meet the needs of the children. It gets frustrating cuz I know I cant meet all their needs and I wish the parents would try to make some effort too. I realize I cant solve everyone's problems but I wouldnt be human if I didnt care and never had frustrating moments. If I am not allowed to post those frustrations on this forum cuz it would upset some parents of CI children then I will leave AD.


My question to you was assuming for the sake of argument that the CI was successful for you.


It wouldn't be just for your family. It would be to have the ability to communicate and not be at a disadvantage. And again, what if you lost your job. My questions to you are assuming the CI option worked for you.

Didnt I answer that ?? I may reconsider but until the time comes I really cant answer cuz I dont know myself. When I was younger, nobody told me about the CI..I had NO knowledge of deaf culture or other devices besides HA. If I had known about them, I really dont know what would have happened. AS I stated in another post, in 1994 when I was 22 years old, for the first time I learned about CIs I had serious serious self-esteem and self-image problems and when I saw that wire hanging from the head all the way to the waist, it was a big turn off for me. I was still hiding my HAs from people by not putting my hair back up. Think about it..a CI is too revealing. That was how I thought as a 22-year old who thought image was the most important thing

That stress is partially associated with you not being able to hear. If the CI allowed you to hear enough wouldn't that eleviate the stress.
TThe stress that I was referring to was from my childhood up until I was 28 years old. Cant I post about what I experienced growing up? Is that too much? Right now I dont deal with the stress as much as before cuz I am not in a non-signing environment too often. If u meet me and get to know me in person, u would know that I dont go around bashing hearing people. It may look like that here but I am very passionate about my beliefs and I will post them up here but in reality I dont go around stating my beliefs on people. I get up, get my kids ready for the day, go to work, do my thing at work, go to the gym, come home to cook dinner, help my daughter, relax and check AD or emails, hang out with my hubby. That is what my daily life is like most of the time.

I honestly dont think ones ability to hear or not defines them as a person. I do believe that it would remove barriers and the disadvantages that I am sure all that have hearing loss suffer. That's your opinion. If more hearing people were more patient and understanding of deaf needs, maybe all these barriers or disadvantages wouldn't be there since technology has made communication for deaf people easier. Here is an example...the realy service is a great accodomation but it becomes a barrier or a disadvantage when people continually hang up on us thinking we are the Nigerian scams or telemarkers or if they dont hang up, they say "yes" "no" but dont initiate in natural conversations. Know what I mean? My gosh..a little patience and understanding can go a long way.

our personal happiness is very important and I respect your views. The only thing I would say is that if you have made a given choice then you must live with the outcome and accept the cards as they are dealt. Is it fair? hmm.. there are many things in life that are not fair to all of us. If I made a choice that resulted in frustration and that put me at a disadvantage would it be fair for me to complain? After all, my experience and frustration would be a result of my own decision. I didnt make the decision to be placed in an oral only school. My parents made that decision for me. In my 20s I was still in denial about my deafness and was battling a whole shitload of issues and depression until I finally accepted my deafness and changed my life. My decisions that I made after accepting my deafness lead to where I am now as a happier person who has finally learned how to love herself. Now, I am just expressing my frustrations about the parents of my students but I cant make that choice for them so I work hard with their children to ensure they will be successful both academically and emotionally later. That is my decision and I am happy with it. No, I cant change the parents' attitude nor views but if I could help them be more sensitive to their child's needs then I accomplished something.

Let me pose the question another way. For the sake of argument; If there were 100% success rate with a CI, would you opt for one?
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Until that happens, I dont know cuz I am at the point where I finally have accepted my deafness and embraced it. If that happened while I was in denial about my deafness and wanting to be hearing, probably will opt for one. It took me so many years to finally accept my deafness and limitations. I cant give u the answer to that one if I dont know the answer to myself. Until the day comes when I need to make that decision, then I will be happy to inform u of the answer
 
Rockdrummer

:confused:

You told Liebling and I to not go off topic, then you go off doing the very same thing in here, You're asking Shel90 a lot of questions regarding about jobs, and education? Then you repeatedly tell us this thread is about "Why adults choose CI's for their children"
 
Cheri said:
Rockdrummer

:confused:

You told Liebling and I to not go off topic, then you go off doing the very same thing in here, You're asking Shel90 a lot of questions regarding about jobs, and education? Then you repeatedly tell us this thread is about "Why adults choose CI's for their children"
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yeah Cheri.. What a jerk I am. Sorry. I have come to terms with the fact that things tend to veer off topic. It when people start bashing eachother and the conversation becomes counterproductive that I get upset. It seems that we are having a productive conversation that does (in my mind) illustrate some very real conditions that people whom are deaf experience on a day to day basis. Those conditions could also be reasons a parent may decide so I guess they are kind of related. Hummm :dunno:
 
rockdrummer said:
yeah Cheri.. What a jerk I am. Sorry. I have come to terms that things tend to veer off topic. It when people start bashing eachother and the conversation becomes counterproductive that I get upset. It seems that we are having a productive conversation that does (in my mind) illustrate some very real conditions that people whom are deaf experience on a day to day basis. Those conditions could also be reasons a parent may decide so I guess they are kind of related. Hummm :dunno:
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Yea, good point! I understand, it's okay, you're forgiven. :hug:
 
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