What approach should be used in the educational setting for deaf education?

[BearBeauty]

The thing that most parents need to remember is that no matter what device the child uses, hearing aids, CI's, whatever newflangled creations they come up with, their child is still, a deaf child. and no matter what you use to try to give them hearing, They're still deaf. You can tell all the new technology that helps deaf people hear, but at the heart of the matter is.. The deaf child or person is still deaf.

 

[Tousi]

The thing that most parents need to remember is that no matter what device the child uses, hearing aids, CI's, whatever newflangled creations they come up with, their child is still, a deaf child. and no matter what you use to try to give them hearing, They're still deaf. You can tell all the new technology that helps deaf people hear, but at the heart of the matter is.. The deaf child or person is still deaf.

Exactamundo! In the educational setting, what do you think gives the deaf & HoH child the best means to "make it" out there?

 

[jackiesolorzano]

The thing that most parents need to remember is that no matter what device the child uses, hearing aids, CI's, whatever newflangled creations they come up with, their child is still, a deaf child. and no matter what you use to try to give them hearing, They're still deaf. You can tell all the new technology that helps deaf people hear, but at the heart of the matter is.. The deaf child or person is still deaf.

Completely agree with you there. At times, different people have told my children they are hard of hearing because they can talk. I always tell them NO you are deaf. I tell them take off your device turn around and see if you can hear what I say. Of course they cannot hear anything without their device. I think for me and my family it is important that they know they are deaf now and will always be.

 

[Tousi]

Completely agree with you there. At times, different people have told my children they are hard of hearing because they can talk. I always tell them NO you are deaf. I tell them take off your device turn around and see if you can hear what I say. Of course they cannot hear anything without their device. I think for me and my family it is important that they know they are deaf now and will always be.

Having said that, Jackie, do you now favor their taking up ASL as something to fall back on and/or a desire to do so? I don't mean "some signs", either. I mean the whole ball of wax that provides another alternative.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Having said that, Jackie, do you now favor their taking up ASL as something to fall back on and/or a desire to do so? I don't mean "some signs", either. I mean the whole ball of wax that provides another alternative.

I have a question for you Tousi, because parents say their child is deaf does that mean that all deaf children need or have to take an ASL class. I personally do not think that all deaf chidlren need to take an ASL class just because they are deaf. In our case, if my children want to take ASL class they are more then welcome to. With my daughter that is older I have told her about the ASL classes and program that is offered at our local community college. She has chosen not take the class now but if she wants in future, I would be more then happy to pay for it and drive her. But that is her decision now not mine, yours, or the Deaf community and not just because she is deaf does she need to take the class, nor will I tell her hey your deaf you need to take ASL class.

 

[shel90]

I have a question for you Tousi, because parents say their child is deaf does that mean that all deaf children need or have to take an ASL class. I personally do not think that all deaf chidlren need to take an ASL class just because they are deaf. In our case, if my children want to take ASL class they are more then welcome to. With my daughter that is older I have told her about the ASL classes and program that is offered at our local community college. She has chosen not take the class now but if she wants in future, I would be more then happy to pay for it and drive her. But that is her decision now not mine, yours, or the Deaf community and not just because she is deaf does she need to take the class, nor will I tell her hey your deaf you need to take ASL class.

It is not about taking classes..it is about having 100% full access to language and ASL by far is the only one that is 100% accessible. It is like telling deaf parents that their hearing children do not need to take spoken English classes. That's how I see it..many deaf parents have ensured that their hearing children are exposed to spoken English even taking them to speech classes...why not hearing parents of deaf children do the same with ASL?

 

[shel90]

The thing that most parents need to remember is that no matter what device the child uses, hearing aids, CI's, whatever newflangled creations they come up with, their child is still, a deaf child. and no matter what you use to try to give them hearing, They're still deaf. You can tell all the new technology that helps deaf people hear, but at the heart of the matter is.. The deaf child or person is still deaf.

Very true...I was taught into believing that with my hearing aids and my ability to speak that I was hearing. As I got older I started noticing the differences between my hearing friends and I and that was when the real problems started for me. I used to blame myself for not meeting the "hearing" pedestal set upon me.

 

[jazzy]

Oral and signing together? It does not make sense to me.

 

[jillio]

BRILLIANTLY SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jillio]

I have a question for you Tousi, because parents say their child is deaf does that mean that all deaf children need or have to take an ASL class. I personally do not think that all deaf chidlren need to take an ASL class just because they are deaf. In our case, if my children want to take ASL class they are more then welcome to. With my daughter that is older I have told her about the ASL classes and program that is offered at our local community college. She has chosen not take the class now but if she wants in future, I would be more then happy to pay for it and drive her. But that is her decision now not mine, yours, or the Deaf community and not just because she is deaf does she need to take the class, nor will I tell her hey your deaf you need to take ASL class.

George Veditz said it best in 1913, in his description of deaf peole. "We are first, last, and for all time, the people of the eye." That means, quite simply, (and very eloquently put by Mr. Veditz) that no matter how assisted or how oral, deaf people will always process information from a visual frame. And if you cannot understand that to discount that one simple and irrefutable fact is to distort you intention. You CANNOT POSSIBLY provide the "most opportunity", as youclaim is your intent, without first providing the oppportunity to gain the most information through the learning process.

And I find it odd that you would be willing to deliver your child to an ASL class, but have not indicated that you would participate in the class WITH her.

 

[shel90]

Oral and signing together? It does not make sense to me.

Not at the same time..like sim com.

 

[jillio]

I have a question for you Tousi, because parents say their child is deaf does that mean that all deaf children need or have to take an ASL class. I personally do not think that all deaf chidlren need to take an ASL class just because they are deaf. In our case, if my children want to take ASL class they are more then welcome to. With my daughter that is older I have told her about the ASL classes and program that is offered at our local community college. She has chosen not take the class now but if she wants in future, I would be more then happy to pay for it and drive her. But that is her decision now not mine, yours, or the Deaf community and not just because she is deaf does she need to take the class, nor will I tell her hey your deaf you need to take ASL class.

Answering a question with a question?

 

[Tousi]

I have a question for you Tousi, because parents say their child is deaf does that mean that all deaf children need or have to take an ASL class. I personally do not think that all deaf chidlren need to take an ASL class just because they are deaf. In our case, if my children want to take ASL class they are more then welcome to. With my daughter that is older I have told her about the ASL classes and program that is offered at our local community college. She has chosen not take the class now but if she wants in future, I would be more then happy to pay for it and drive her. But that is her decision now not mine, yours, or the Deaf community and not just because she is deaf does she need to take the class, nor will I tell her hey your deaf you need to take ASL class.

That's fine, just asking....

 

[jackiesolorzano]

George Veditz said it best in 1913, in his description of deaf peole. "We are first, last, and for all time, the people of the eye." That means, quite simply, (and very eloquently put by Mr. Veditz) that no matter how assisted or how oral, deaf people will always process information from a visual frame. And if you cannot understand that to discount that one simple and irrefutable fact is to distort you intention. You CANNOT POSSIBLY provide the "most opportunity", as youclaim is your intent, without first providing the oppportunity to gain the most information through the learning process.

And I find it odd that you would be willing to deliver your child to an ASL class, but have not indicated that you would participate in the class WITH her.

The only reason I wouldn't is because I have taken 2 ASL classes in the past but once she was able to take ASL 2 then I would be more then happy to go with her.

 

[jillio]

The only reason I wouldn't is because I have taken 2 ASL classes in the past but once she was able to take ASL 2 then I would be more then happy to go with her.

Can't say this with absolute certainty, but I would say that it is very, very likely that, as she has been using ASL to converse with her friends (remember posting that info?), she has already surpassed the level of your skill after 2 ASL classes. Two classes don't even get you a strong foundation in the basics.

 

[robbielyn]

I think since asl is the deaf's native language, then that should be the language taught with signed english as a foreign language and then work on oral within the first five years. but the native language of the deaf should take priority. The deaf may live in a country where english is the main language and it should be taught to the deaf why? For the same reason spanish speaking people should learn english but their native language and culture should be included in their education. It would be nice to have ASL CODA teachers who can teach asl, then english. I think the hearing world needs to adapt to the deaf give the deaf language, then they can be just as well educated as a hearing person. Once deaf has their own language and are encouraged to learn by means of it, then can learn other languages. We hearies are not deprived of our native language, why should the deaf. ASL is very much a real complicated language with all the elements of a real language. So let the young kids learn it. Parents should learn it and then once the child is fluent in asl then teach the child english as a 'B' language. They can become fluent in english after they have learned asl. It is much easier that way.

 

[shel90]

I think since asl is the deaf's native language, then that should be the language taught with signed english as a foreign language and then work on oral within the first five years. but the native language of the deaf should take priority. The deaf may live in a country where english is the main language and it should be taught to the deaf why? For the same reason spanish speaking people should learn english but their native language and culture should be included in their education. It would be nice to have ASL CODA teachers who can teach asl, then english. I think the hearing world needs to adapt to the deaf give the deaf language, then they can be just as well educated as a hearing person. Once deaf has their own language and are encouraged to learn by means of it, then can learn other languages. We hearies are not deprived of our native language, why should the deaf. ASL is very much a real complicated language with all the elements of a real language. So let the young kids learn it. Parents should learn it and then once the child is fluent in asl then teach the child english as a 'B' language. They can become fluent in english after they have learned asl. It is much easier that way.

That's the philosophy of our program...respecting that ASL is the deaf language and spoken language for being able to communicate with hearing people. Our students are getting both and nobody is getting lost, or missing out, or being deprived of a language. It is really nice and I am trying to send that message out but many people are resistant to it cuz some are afraid that by introducing sign language will interfere with oral language skills. Cloggy's daughter sounds like a perfect example..from my understanding she was introduced to signs and yet was still able to develop spoken language. Pls correct me if I am wrong about your daughter, Cloggy but that is my understanding. If I am wrong, then my apologies. If the child has the motivation for learning spoken language, he/she will learn it.

 

[shel90]

Can't say this with absolute certainty, but I would say that it is very, very likely that, as she has been using ASL to converse with her friends (remember posting that info?), she has already surpassed the level of your skill after 2 ASL classes. Two classes don't even get you a strong foundation in the basics.

I am confused...I thought she said her daughter can use it for social purposes only but cant use it for educational purposes due to not understanding the terp? If her daughter only mastered up to ASL 2 then it would make sense that she couldnt understand the terp.

 

[Dixie]

I voted - whatever works best for the child. Because just like in retriever training what works well for one dog may not have any benefits at all for the next dog.

All people are different - including deaf people. Some do better learning orally(speech), some do better to learn visually (sign), and some really do well learning both simultaneously (simcomm).

I do agree in a way with Shel that learning both would be beneficial since deaf people are in a minority sub-group. We are deaf/hoh people living in a hearing world.

As you all know I grew up Hoh and was mainstreamed orally into a regular school system. I often found myself missing key information and because of that I struggled academically somewhat. I was raised in a way to be ashamed and limited due to my HoH.

As I got older and into my 20s I realized its not my fault I am the way I am - God made me this way for a reason, nothing I can do about it except to roll with it.

Now I am learning ASL as I go and believe it or not its helped me gain some confidence in myself in a way. I dnt get a chance to use it conversationally around here because there isnt a large deaf population here. BUT what I am learning is that I miss far fewer key facts and information when watching ASL videos on YT.

Like Shel - I realize that I probably would have done much better growing up with both speech and sign. Things would have been alot better for me although not neccessarily any easier.

 

[jillio]

I am confused...I thought she said her daughter can use it for social purposes only but cant use it for educational purposes due to not understanding the terp? If her daughter only mastered up to ASL 2 then it would make sense that she couldnt understand the terp.

Exactly--Jackie said that she herself had taken 2 ASL classes in the past, and thather daughter learned ASL from her deaf friends. Then she assumes that because she (jackie) took the two classs, she knows more ASL than her daughter. I wa saying that is is probably reversed. If the daughter is using it to converse with her deaf friends, she probably knows more ASL that jackie does from two classes, and probably understands more than jackie does. I think we agree that the classroom is not where one best learns the language, it is from deaf and coda speakers of the language. You learn mechanics in the classroom--syntax and classifiers, etc. But you learn to use it when you converse with other people who are using it. And she probably has trouble with understanding the terp because whe hasn't been using it long enough to have extensive vocab or receptive skills. But using a terp can improve that.