Universal Health Care

Do you think there should be Universal Health Care?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 55.7%
  • No

    Votes: 15 24.6%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 12 19.7%

  • Total voters
    61
I need to tell you a briefly which is not part of this threat, but it is almost the same ideal.

My neighbor always worked until she was retired. She NEVER spent her money except food and two mortgages (a house and a car). When she retired and made over 1 million dollars. But, in fact, she was not able to go on a bike ride and go out traveling because her long time friends were dead and she was too old. She missed the fun days. That was her big loss.
 
Health care in Australia

In Australia, our system is similar to Canada's but we do have private and public health care system and is being funded from many sources.

Private care system. a patient who have private health insurance, mine is with Medibank Private and only costs me about 50 dollars a month after 30% discount and funded by federal Goverment. I had my cochlear implant surgery done and was paid by health insurance company, again 3 years later I had my processor upgraded to Freedom. Again, all paid by same insurance company. The cost of the surgery and implants actually costs about 25,000US dollars and has left me with about 750 dollars cash paid. The reason for being so cheap is the malpractice ligitations, cost controls on medications, devices and also medical billing are heavy regulated by the Government. Hence, they give their power on decide whats okay and whats not.

Also, Australian tax payers pay 1.5% once off tax bill computed on annual tax return ever year. Mine is about 500 dollars a year. This is to fund public and private health care systems.

I recall about Vigara pill can cost 40 dollars a pop in US. Prices are set by pizifer, the makers of Vigara. Very expensive to get an erection prior to intimate sexual intercourse. In Australia, only about 5 dollars a pop and the price is set by Australian government and pizifer needs to shut up and deal with it if they want to continue with with selling their pills to Australians.

Public care system. This applies the same to private but most devices are not available widely, yet restricted to people who are in most need(sick or no income). Anyone can use the public care system but the wait times can be hell and horrendous for all us involved. Same as in Canada as well. Still, its free and are funded by the tax payers.

Hence, for US health care system. I do not see the need for universal care system but a HUGE reform is needed to keep both private and health care system working

1/ Cap malpractice payout to injured who were harmed by medical professionals. The cap needs to be reasonable, managing injuries for life, quality of life, mental and emotional trauma and loss of income. I had seen some news that US attorneys had proclaimed they had won payout worth several million over for their clients. The question lingers me, is "Is it necessary to get several millions over to cover the loss of right arm that was cut off and supposedly, the left arm is to cut off? I think not. Look at Iraq war veterans who had lost their limbs and are functioning well with their lives and they didn't deserve money several millions over. Of course, they are to be respected and supported in their life time. (salute to veterans)

2/ Establish cost control agency to decide how much it cost to provide services, medications, devices and the like, hence profitability to suppliers, owners and supply chains. EG: Cochlear implant made in Australia sells for about 20,000US dollars in Australian market but costs twice than that in US market. I dont see it is justifiable.

3/ increase tax, say .5 to 1.0% on all IRS returns calculated (not from payroll) to fund hospitals and doctors to provide services to people who are unemployed, aged, students and children.

I believe this will work.
 
MEDICINE AND HEALTH:
Here’s a Second Opinion

By Scott W. Atlas

Ten reasons why America’s health care system is in better condition than you might suppose. By Scott W. Atlas.

Medical care in the United States is derided as miserable compared to health care systems in the rest of the developed world. Economists, government officials, insurers, and academics beat the drum for a far larger government role in health care. Much of the public assumes that their arguments are sound because the calls for change are so ubiquitous and the topic so complex. Before we turn to government as the solution, however, we should consider some unheralded facts about America’s health care system.

1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality in Canada is 9 percent higher than in the United States, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher, and colon cancer among men is about 10 percent higher.

3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from statin drugs, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease, are taking them. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons, and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate, and colon cancer:

* Nine out of ten middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to fewer than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).

* Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a Pap smear, compared to fewer than 90 percent of Canadians.

* More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a prostatespecific antigen (PSA) test, compared to fewer than one in six Canadians (16 percent).

* Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with fewer than one in twenty Canadians (5 percent).

5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report “excellent” health (11.7 percent) compared to Canadian seniors (5.8 percent). Conversely, white, young Canadian adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower-income Americans to describe their health as “fair or poor.”

6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long—sometimes more than a year—to see a specialist, have elective surgery such as hip replacements, or get radiation treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada. In Britain, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.

7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and British adults say their health system needs either “fundamental change” or “complete rebuilding.”

8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the “health care system,” more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared with only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).

9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain. An overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identify computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade—even as economists and policy makers unfamiliar with actual medical practice decry these techniques as wasteful. The United States has thirty-four CT scanners per million Americans, compared to twelve in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has almost twenty-seven MRI machines per million people compared to about six per million in Canada and Britain.

10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other developed country. Since the mid- 1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to U.S. residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past thirty-four years did a scientist living in the United States not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.

Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and care for the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.

This essay appeared on the website of the National Center for Policy Analysis on March 24, 2009. An earlier version was published in the Washington Times.

Available from the Hoover Press is Power to the Patient: Selected Health Care Issues and Policy Solutions, edited by Scott W. Atlas. To order, call 800.935.2882 or visit Hoover Press.

Scott W. Atlas is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and a professor of radiology and chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical School.
Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - Here’s a Second Opinion
 
So, I guess what would happen if US is get universal health care and it affect different in US health care?
 
I think that our government lied us again. I have no way to believe what is the best system for us. I think that France is probably the best one of all because I have heard about it a couple of months ago. It is really sad that many of us believe that U.S. hospitals are the best. That does not prove it because many hospitals have taken away their patient's home to pay the bills. I am not exact sure that it is legal for anyone to tell other people about this because we haven't heard about their complaints or maybe they were arrested at a rally somewhere - I am not saying the fact.

I believe that the real issue is the insurance corporations, and they are the biggest corruption around the world. When my father and I went out boating in the sea, and he told me that he met a man who owns a giant beautiful boat and the man was a vice-president of an insurance company. He laughed and enjoyed himself to get away from the people. I can't detail here, and I really cannot imagine how the insurance owners are real selfish. I am sure that both hospital and insurance owners are horrible. It is so easy for anyone to tell me that I am wrong.

My former neighbor is a vice-president of telemarketing for a hospital. She makes 100,000 dollars a year. That was five years ago. I bet that she might have earned 250,000 next year.
 
I think that our government lied us again. I have no way to believe what is the best system for us. I think that France is probably the best one of all because I have heard about it a couple of months ago. It is really sad that many of us believe that U.S. hospitals are the best. That does not prove it because many hospitals have taken away their patient's home to pay the bills. I am not exact sure that it is legal for anyone to tell other people about this because we haven't heard about their complaints or maybe they were arrested at a rally somewhere - I am not saying the fact.

I believe that the real issue is the insurance corporations, and they are the biggest corruption around the world. When my father and I went out boating in the sea, and he told me that he met a man who owns a giant beautiful boat and the man was a vice-president of an insurance company. He laughed and enjoyed himself to get away from the people. I can't detail here, and I really cannot imagine how the insurance owners are real selfish. I am sure that both hospital and insurance owners are horrible. It is so easy for anyone to tell me that I am wrong.

My former neighbor is a vice-president of telemarketing for a hospital. She makes 100,000 dollars a year. That was five years ago. I bet that she might have earned 250,000 next year.

yes. That's what needed to be fixed - greedy corporations with greedy agenda. and greedy patients who sue sue sue.

just FYI - I don't think American hospitals are the best but it's better than others.
 
So we can say he's entitled to his opinion, too? :lol:

It looks like a draw of statistics between battling doctors.

I disagree with Scott´s opinion and agree with rebuttal of John´s opinion because I withnessed on TV over US and different countries healthcare system.

AMERICAN HEALTH CARE many dying - Google-Suche


No matter how many but mainly important is they do everything to save people´s life instead of deny people´s life....
 
So we can say he's entitled to his opinion, too? :lol:

It looks like a draw of statistics between battling doctors.

Yes, I agreed that every doctor entitle to their opinion. I have seen many different statistic between battling doctors, etc in websites.

The point I want to say most of John´s opinion is true. It´s my opinion.




:ty: for post the link but I can´t understand what video says because there´re no CC / subtitles. :( but it´s interesting to read 25 comments in that link.
 
Why The French Can Afford To Get Sick
This summer in Paris my friends Matt and Noemi had twins. Matt's British so they ended up naming their sons George and Alistair. But Noemi's French - and that's what's important here, because the entire family is covered by the French Social Security system.

So, even though the boys were delivered by Cesarean section and Noemi spent nine days in a private room, after leaving the hospital they paid …

"19 euros, for the TV," Matt said.

That's around twenty-five dollars.

Well, they also paid a $165 for the first night, but for twins delivered by Cesarean, and nine days in a private room, and the cost was about $190?

Maybe we could learn anything from it.

"All the people coming to our emergency department are treated equal," a doctor told Turecamo. "We can't say to a patient, 'Oh, you don't have money or the right kind of insurance.'"

In fairness, emergency rooms in the United States are obliged to treat and at least stabilize everyone - but because of the cost many Americans never see a doctor until it's an emergency.

If anything the French go to doctors too much simply because they can afford it. You see, a typical office visit will cost them 22 euros. That's about $28.

"Obviously that would make an American laugh," the doctor said.

But don't laugh - 65% is covered by the national health system. The rest is picked up by private insurance which is available to everyone at a nominal cost. But even with that, one doctor in private practice told me, "If a patient has a big problem - no job, nothing - I say 'Okay - don't pay.'"

You should know French doctors make a lot less than their American counterparts - roughly $50,000 to $100,000 a year - because the French government (not doctors or pharmaceutical companies) sets the prices for everything - prices they feel are reasonable.

While critics argue that's socialized medicine, some doctors argue it's what we call managed care.

"Most of the time it doesn't cost anything for the patient," said the doctor.

(CBS)
So the French go to a drug store to fill a prescription and most people don't pay anything.

Sound good?

Well, eight years ago the World Health Organization released a study ranking France as having the best health care system in the world.

"Well, even the French tend to roll their eyes when they hear that," David said, "and the study itself has been criticized for its methodology.

"But it's not just the quality of health care this country offers, it's the fact that it's offered to everyone. Every man, woman and child who is a legal resident in France is covered by national health care."

It's a comprehensive system that's innovative as well. When you call the emergency number (SAMU is like our EMS, or emergency medical services), first you talk to a doctor ...

"Oui, bonjour c'est le docteur du samu."

… who decides whether or not your case is an emergency. It's a time- and cost-effective measure because out of every thousand calls they receive, only about fifty turn about to be real medical emergencies.

"That means in more than 95% of the case we can deal with the call without using the full team," the SAMU medical chief said.

Because the full SAMU team in France includes a doctor, nurse, technicians and a battery of equipment and drugs, including drugs you will not see in an American ambulance. "These are drugs for general anesthesia," the SAMu staffer said. "We have all the monitoring; we have the possibility to give the drugs with infusion with a computer. It's like having a small part of the emergency room in the street."

See, in the U.S. ambulance teams are paramedics whose job is to get a patient to the nearest hospital quickly. Here the idea is to bypass the emergency room altogether. The patient is treated at the scene (on average for about 45 minutes), and when she is moved to a hospital it's one chosen not for its proximity but for its specialty

"We think this hospital is the better place for this type of disease," the SAMU doctor said.

Because treatment has already begun, the patient is taken directly to the specialized ward where the specialist is waiting for her.

Are there failures? Of course … case in point: the death of Princess Diana, which some say was caused because SAMU spent more than an hour and a half treating her at the scene before moving her to a hospital.

But overall, doctors agree the system is pretty effective.

"If you have some paramedics that is allowed to do some procedures that's good," SAMU medical chief said. "But where is the diagnosis? To go in the hospital and to save time we need a precise diagnosis."

But what if it's not an emergency? What if it's, like, well, during this January blizzard a few years back, my daughter ran a fever and …

(CBS)
Look, every doctor makes house calls, but this group, SOS Medecins, specializes in making house calls at off-hours and weekends

They respond to about 2 million calls a year across France and can have a doctor at your home or hotel generally within an hour of your call.

They receive no state support and charge 52 euros, or about $65 for a visit - which generally is fully reimbursable.

Of course, all this comes with a price tag.

On a per capita basis it costs the French about $3,400 a year for health care, most of which, they complain, comes from taxes.

But in the U.S., per capita spending for health care is almost double that figure

And there are still roughly forty six million Americans who are uninsured.

And while the French are determined to preserve their system (it's currently running a 12 to 14 billion dollar deficit), most agree something's got to change.

"People come to France just to have free care and they don't pay," one doctor said.

So, is their system really better than ours?

Well, the only thing I can really say definitively is, in France you can go to the hospital without going broke.
 
interesting comments -

When will we in the United States wise up to the fact that health insurance for all is necessary. Even if we had a minimum level for all that allowed individuals to see a nurse or other health care personal at the first sign of a medical problem would save money over the current system. The fact that we pay one of the highest percentage of GNP for health care of major industrial countries and have 46 million uninsured is crazy.
my rebuttal - we have huge illegal immigration problem.... it's leeching on our system which cause a massive financial drain in our budget in all fields - school, welfare, prison, law enforcement, border patrol, hospital, social service, etc.

France Why do we want to copy a country that only works 4 days a month. They do not have the drive or will of this country. As a Texan we are required to see illegals who yank down our health system requiring the tax payers to tighten the belt and pay higher cost of insurance France only takes care of France we take care of every body. as Jerry Seinfeild quoted on one of his shows "French and rude who saw it comming"
something to add - we are one of few countries who spend tremendous amount of money and resource in coming up with technological advancement. French probably figured it's much cheaper just to buy it off from others
 
I'm trying to find out how much "universal" health care cost per family. That's why I've asked Liebling to tell us how much she and her husband pay each month for their health insurance. I want to get an idea how much it costs an average middle class family to get that kind of coverage.
 
I'm trying to find out how much "universal" health care cost per family. That's why I've asked Liebling to tell us how much she and her husband pay each month for their health insurance. I want to get an idea how much it costs an average middle class family to get that kind of coverage.

No, children up to 18 years old are free due % for children from everyone who works to pay healthcare insurance company.

We only pay to follow our gross wage, that´s all, no matter how many children do we have, to pay healthcare insurance.

Due tax, we have to put how many children we have and add tax card IV because we both work.

See this link, I posted a few minutes ago about gross wage of married couple with children and single person with no children.


AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Obama lied about AARP Supporting Obamacare...and more



Question?

 
Jiro, I will read your post about French healthcare later because it´s interesting to read and compare with German healthcare system.


I know I did not make posts much because my hubby use computer mostly for seek justice/legal like what I responsed your post at other thread yesterday.

 
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