The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

[deafgalO01]

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Yes!

I used to have countless kids come up to me and scream at me in my ear, or talk behind me, then demand of me to tell them what they said. I couldn't without lipreading, so they would laugh at me. That doesn't happen to hearing people either.

Yes, they done the same. They would sit behind me saying all sort of stuffs, and think it is funny I don’t hear it. I am sure the stuff they say is pretty ugly but they love it because they can't do that with anyone else without being told on. I may be deaf and can't hear whisper and such behind me, but I am not stupid. I know what they are doing, I just don't have any proof especially if I have no idea what they said. I can only tell by their reaction.

 

[deafgalO01]

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Wirelessly posted

Good grief. Did you really think deaf don't do anything to change it? How about "deaf president NOW" protest, thats one example.



And honestly, I do not enjoy explaining my deafness every waking moment, and what I need. Did you know I spend 80% of my time daily (yes daily because people get carry away and forgot like keep covering their mouth or looking away) explaining these sort of things

Ya, i have to do this even with my own family. I just spent the last hour reminding hte ER people to look at me when talking to me and now I'm not in the best of moods.

Hope you are ok.

Yeah, hospital and doctors are the worst offender (if that the appropriate term) and where I get majority of my experience as a deaf person from. I spend alot of time at hospitals and clinics for myself and family members like mom, dad, my husband, son. I LoVE veteran affair hospital, thats where they treat family members with dignity including me as a deaf person. They actually went over and write things down (processor issues) on my white board about my dad. That NEVER happen to me before. I was expecting to explain it again and again.. both nurses and doctors

 

[Hohtopics]

It was sometime more effective to sit in the second and not first row. Cause sometime the first row was too close. And sometime the second row was good, in case the teacher walked around the room a bit. It also sometime depended on the class setting and the space between the first row and the teacher's desk or board. And if there was a teacher that also used the board a lot, that was also obviously a plus. Some of the teachers just used the board a lot naturally whether or not there was a deaf student in the class regardless.

 

[Reba]

... Some of the teachers just used the board a lot naturally whether or not there was a deaf student in the class regardless.

I'm glad that you brought that up.

Sometimes seating, FM, terps, and special equipment aren't enough. Actual teaching style makes a big difference. Endless blah, blah, blah lecturing is bad enough for any student but is even more difficult and tiring to follow via speech reading or interpreting. Use of the board for visual instruction, hands-on demonstrations, breaking down the lecture into smaller chunks, and frequent feedback from the students seems to be more effective.

I've noticed (on the college level) that students often get more out of a class during 5 minutes of hands-on, one-on-one instruction, than 60 minutes of lecture.

I've also noticed that students get more out of the lecture if they read the chapter the night before, take notes from the reading, and look up unfamiliar terms they come across.

Obviously teaching "tips" aren't going to resolve social isolation or bullying issues. I only mention them to point out that getting the most out of mainstream education requires more than just the obvious accommodations.

It also appears that the rose-colored theory that if "able" students are exposed to "disabled" students they will develop empathetic and accepting attitudes towards disabled persons is not the dream come true. It appears to work with those who are already predisposed toward being sensitive, caring people. It also appears to simply provide easy targets for those who are predisposed toward being cruel and insensitive.

Disclaimer: All the above is personal opinion only.

 

[KristinaB]

I've also noticed that students get more out of the lecture if they read the chapter the night before, take notes from the reading, and look up unfamiliar terms they come across.

I think this is why I did so well in school for a long time. While I had to sit in the center front, I was also given all the info a day early so that I could do the reading and research before the class got it and be prepared. I apply this same principal with my kids in our home school and it really helps my son. Daughter, not so much due to her learning issues. I still to this day do what my family calls "overkill" in researching a topic before continuing on.

 

[deafgalO01]

Wirelessly posted

Yeah, I already know that teachers use board, textbooks, and materials rather deaf people are there or not. I was pointing out how I survived in public school. People think we must be really good at our oral upbringing if we can function in mainstream. But thats not always the case, sometimes rarely. We are lucky we can read or.write.We had alot of visual inputs, visual demstration, textbooks, and some have notetakers ( I never did, I spend many hours writing my own notes from the board which was very helpful. this mean I never looked at the teachers at all for speechreading )

 

[deafskeptic]

I'm glad that you brought that up.

Sometimes seating, FM, terps, and special equipment aren't enough. Actual teaching style makes a big difference. Endless blah, blah, blah lecturing is bad enough for any student but is even more difficult and tiring to follow via speech reading or interpreting. Use of the board for visual instruction, hands-on demonstrations, breaking down the lecture into smaller chunks, and frequent feedback from the students seems to be more effective.

I've noticed (on the college level) that students often get more out of a class during 5 minutes of hands-on, one-on-one instruction, than 60 minutes of lecture.

I've also noticed that students get more out of the lecture if they read the chapter the night before, take notes from the reading, and look up unfamiliar terms they come across.

Obviously teaching "tips" aren't going to resolve social isolation or bullying issues. I only mention them to point out that getting the most out of mainstream education requires more than just the obvious accommodations.

It also appears that the rose-colored theory that if "able" students are exposed to "disabled" students they will develop empathetic and accepting attitudes towards disabled persons is not the dream come true. It appears to work with those who are already predisposed toward being sensitive, caring people. It also appears to simply provide easy targets for those who are predisposed toward being cruel and insensitive.

Disclaimer: All the above is personal opinion only.

That has been my observation as well regarding your last paragrapgh.

Interesting that the hearing students don't benefit as much from long lectures as from other metaholds of teaching.

 

[dogmom]

I also agree with you and can certainly see that happening as far as that last paragraph too, Reba
I was intrigued by and liked what you wrote in general there about students/college.
Reading the night before always helped me greatly.
Visual was VERY important. Many times I don't get something til you make it visual. Straight lectures were always my least favorite classes - even if someone could tell a story, or do something interactive, that was much more fun and long-lasting!

 

[Hohtopics]

I'm glad that you brought that up.

Sometimes seating, FM, terps, and special equipment aren't enough. Actual teaching style makes a big difference. Endless blah, blah, blah lecturing is bad enough for any student but is even more difficult and tiring to follow via speech reading or interpreting. Use of the board for visual instruction, hands-on demonstrations, breaking down the lecture into smaller chunks, and frequent feedback from the students seems to be more effective.

I've noticed (on the college level) that students often get more out of a class during 5 minutes of hands-on, one-on-one instruction, than 60 minutes of lecture.

I've also noticed that students get more out of the lecture if they read the chapter the night before, take notes from the reading, and look up unfamiliar terms they come across.

Yes, some of the teachers were kind of boring to all of the students. Whereas all they did was to sit on their chair and mumble. Never venturing around the classroom, hardly using the board, etc.

I had a very good social studies teacher whereas he made a very good use of the board. Making very detailed and neat outlines of the different historical events, listing them chronologically, using roman numerals or the alphabet, etc.

 

[Reba]

Yes, some of the teachers were kind of boring to all of the students. Whereas all they did was to sit on their chair and mumble. Never venturing around the classroom, hardly using the board, etc.

I had a very good social studies teacher whereas he made a very good use of the board. Making very detailed and neat outlines of the different historical events, listing them chronologically, using roman numerals or the alphabet, etc.

As a terp, I enjoy teachers who walk around, too. It gives me an opportunity to get off my chair and move around with them. I don't like all that sitting.

 

[rraja]

I don't really agree with the person in the video. On a personal level, I was mainstreamed for my entire school career and I don't think I would have gotten into MIT if I was in a slower-paced special ed class. My teachers were all really good so that probably helped though.

It would be interesting to see some statistics and determine what the general trend is though. All I've seen so far is anecdotal evidence which alone isn't enough to really make a conclusion.

 

[Speedy Hawk]

This is not about being bullied only. This is about being cut off from communicationa and information more than their hearing peers and then the bullies taking advantage of that.

I had bullies gang up on me telling that that our teacher said this or that knowing that I didnt have the same access to information as they did so I believed them and as a result, I got into trouble with my teachers.

That is what hearing people do NOT experience.

Reminds me of my experience of primary school mainstream. I had bullies come up to me and tell me do this or that cos teacher told them pass message on and I never know when to believe them or not cos teacher DO sometimes pass message on to them and most of time it not true. Bad luck to me that bullies are teachers favourite students and won't see anything bad about them.

They also take advantage of me when I don't understand word of teacher is saying and make me do wrong things or wrong work so I end up having teacher yelling at me for not doing told.

So many ways. Bullies are cunning, they will find way for anything.

 

[shel90]

It was sometime more effective to sit in the second and not first row. Cause sometime the first row was too close. And sometime the second row was good, in case the teacher walked around the room a bit. It also sometime depended on the class setting and the space between the first row and the teacher's desk or board. And if there was a teacher that also used the board a lot, that was also obviously a plus. Some of the teachers just used the board a lot naturally whether or not there was a deaf student in the class regardless.

So what happens when there is a whole class discussion with students' chiming in their ideas, answers, and etc? How does a deaf child catch what each student is saying in a classroom of 20 plus kids?

It happened to me so I ended up withdrawing into myself because I didnt want to look like a fool not knowing what was happening. THAT IS JUST WRONG and anyone who supports that really do not value the deaf child's right to equal access to what's happening in the classroom. Good grief!

 

[KristinaB]

So what happens when there is a whole class discussion with students' chiming in their ideas, answers, and etc? How does a deaf child catch what each student is saying in a classroom of 20 plus kids?

It happened to me so I ended up withdrawing into myself because I didnt want to look like a fool not knowing what was happening. THAT IS JUST WRONG and anyone who supports that really do not value the deaf child's right to equal access to what's happening in the classroom. Good grief!

I so understand this and I know you are aware that I do. I still go through this now as an adult while at MIL's weigh loss group or MIL's Autumn Ministry (50+ group at church) or even MIL's Prayer Warrior group.

 

[deafdyke]

Thats for lipreading alone. I wonder about speechreading - lipreading PLUS sounds with hearing equipments (HAs, CI, etc.) It still guesswork but I can pick up words pretty accurate, not always though. HAs alone..no. lipreading alone...no. I have to use both to pick up words accurately.

Exactly my point. Both speech and speechreading combine to create a bigger picture.
There are no Deaf schools that have classes exclusively for lipreading any more. I do agree lipreading without sound input is very hard, BUT you can also say the same about listening exclusively. Seriously, were you aware that there are sounds that can only be differentated by being seen on the lips?

 

[deafgalO01]

Wirelessly posted

I don't really agree with the person in the video. On a personal level, I was mainstreamed for my entire school career and I don't think I would have gotten into MIT if I was in a slower-paced special ed class. My teachers were all really good so that probably helped though.

It would be interesting to see some statistics and determine what the general trend is though. All I've seen so far is anecdotal evidence which alone isn't enough to really make a conclusion.

http://ies.ed.gov/ncser/pubs/20113003/

 

[deafdyke]

I was mainstreamed for my entire school career and I don't think I would have gotten into MIT if I was in a slower-paced special ed class. My teachers were all really good so that probably helped though.

OTOH, Deaf Ed doesn't nessarily mean remedial "slow paced" education. I ABSOLUTELY HATE THAT ASSUMPTION!!!!!! God, you should have been at the Gally University Regional Academic Bowl finals......there were lots and lots of very smart dhh teens, many of whom went to Deaf Schools and programs!
Say you had been mainstreamed, but you'd also been able to attend an elementary school that had a strong Dhh program (ie one of those regional/magnet schools) You could have had the advantage of challenging acadmics AND teachers and admins (including speech therapists) who were familiar with how to teach dhh kids. I mean it's good that you had a good mainstream experiance, but you prolly did really well with the minimal accomondations approach. In other words, you weren't one of those kids who were consigned to the "Oh they're just going to be on disabilty their entire lives" "Sped" heap, b/c they did not do well with a minimal accomondations approach, with teachers who didn't really have a clue about how to teach kids with low incidence disabilties.

 

[shel90]

otoh, deaf ed doesn't nessarily mean remedial "slow paced" education. I absolutely hate that assumption!!!!!! God, you should have been at the gally university regional academic bowl finals......there were lots and lots of very smart dhh teens, many of whom went to deaf schools and programs!
Say you had been mainstreamed, but you'd also been able to attend an elementary school that had a strong dhh program (ie one of those regional/magnet schools) you could have had the advantage of challenging acadmics and teachers and admins (including speech therapists) who were familiar with how to teach dhh kids. I mean it's good that you had a good mainstream experiance, but you prolly did really well with the minimal accomondations approach. In other words, you weren't one of those kids who were consigned to the "oh they're just going to be on disabilty their entire lives" "sped" heap, b/c they did not do well with a minimal accomondations approach, with teachers who didn't really have a clue about how to teach kids with low incidence disabilties.

amen!

 

[Reba]

So what happens when there is a whole class discussion with students' chiming in their ideas, answers, and etc? How does a deaf child catch what each student is saying in a classroom of 20 plus kids?

The interpreter should have explained to the teacher at the beginning of the school year that class discussions can't be free-for-alls, and that students will have to take turns speaking in order to meet communication accommodations. If the teacher forgets, the terp should remind the teacher. Ideally, the students should sit in a circle if it's going to be a long discussion so the deaf student/s can get a better view of who is speaking.

There are other creative ways to have group participation, such as answering by holding up paddles or flash cards, or using individual white boards and markers.

 

[deafgalO01]

Wirelessly posted

I was mainstreamed for my entire school career and I don't think I would have gotten into MIT if I was in a slower-paced special ed class. My teachers were all really good so that probably helped though.

OTOH, Deaf Ed doesn't nessarily mean remedial "slow paced" education. I ABSOLUTELY HATE THAT ASSUMPTION!!!!!! God, you should have been at the Gally University Regional Academic Bowl finals......there were lots and lots of very smart dhh teens, many of whom went to Deaf Schools and programs!

Say you had been mainstreamed, but you'd also been able to attend an elementary school that had a strong Dhh program (ie one of those regional/magnet schools) You could have had the advantage of challenging acadmics AND teachers and admins (including speech therapists) who were familiar with how to teach dhh kids. I mean it's good that you had a good mainstream experiance, but you prolly did really well with the minimal accomondations approach. In other words, you weren't one of those kids who were consigned to the "Oh they're just going to be on disabilty their entire lives" "Sped" heap, b/c they did not do well with a minimal accomondations approach, with teachers who didn't really have a clue about how to teach kids with low incidence disabilties.

He was referring to special education so I don't know he meant deaf education or not, but my LD english class was definitely slow paced and left out alot of material they didn't think we need to learn. They just wanted cover the basic material for our grade level