The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

[TheOracle]

i meant myself...in regards to eardrums...:p

What is this backlash against teachers?

I did not say that glasses was equivalent to hearing loss. I was saying that if it weren't for the glasses, then it would have been the shoes. Or something else. (About that time I started getting into fights and it all subsided, but anyway...) Kids are nasty in sixth grade, yes, but I'm 100% positive that having kids of all kinds around made me a little less ignorant than some when I left school.

Adults who encounter someone "different" for the first time tend to be nervous...while people who have had various exposures tend not to be the morons.

I'm not saying that mainstreaming always works. NO. I'm saying that I see why it's pushed. When I was in teacher ed, I was always taught that the LRE also pertained to mainstreaming...as in, students should be with the general ed as much as possible...can you direct me to some alternate case law so I can look that up? It would be good for me to know. Thanks

but you had full access to everything that was happening did you? You didnt have to constantly ask people to reapeat themselves, sit in the classroom not understanding what the teacher was saying, missing out on what others were saying and ended up being isolated despite being surrounded by hearing peers?


Did you experience that?

At least in a large deaf/hh program or at a Deaf school, the kids have visual language around them so they have full access in the educational setting.

And...I do know what it's like to struggle because of a hearing loss. You asked, so I'm responding. My unilateral hearing loss isn't the same experience, but it doesn't mean I pick up on everything in class or in a conversation...I always have the TV up loud, sit in the front, and study faces so I can catch what I may have missed through speechreading. I RARELY know what my peers are saying when they ask questions. Again, I'm telling you because you asked. I can imagine it would be a lot more exhausting if I had bilateral hearing loss. My younger experiences could've just been because I was a weird combination of awkward and confident.

 

[Bottesini]

Wirelessly posted

Also about sending kids to deaf school, I often wonder why my husband's cousin is willing to move one place to another just so her autistic child could have the best education, or why parents move closer to the best hospital so their child with cancer can have the best treatment, and even some parents are willing to move for the best oral only deaf school when there are plenty of deaf school that provide both ASL and spoken, some even allow CODA or siblings ... but they won't and some rather mainstream their deaf child and stay right where they are. It just baffle me because i know they willing move for other reasons.

Good to see you back.

 

[CSign]

I have to say that a lot of the misconception and misunderstanding on the part of hearing individuals comes from lack of knowledge. Given that hearing loss is a low incidence "disability" many people have very limited experience and real knowledge of what it means.
I think that most hearing individuals given appropriate information and training on the topic, would in fact be more understanding and sensitive to the unique needs of deaf individuals.
The phrase "deaf and dumb" is so tacky, and I really thought that we had done away with that. Sure, perhaps some people might equate spoken language to level of intelligence, but those are people who need to be educated on the subject.
My son is currently mainstreamed and I think that it's of benefit to the other children to have exposure to him and sign language. It's been an opportunity to educate these children about what it means and perhaps they will grow up with a better understanding than those with no exposure.
I think that's what it boils down to; early exposure and information, and the opportunity for them to observe and ask questions. I go into my sons class about once a week to teach them some sign language and they've all responded well. That's not to say they are fluent signers, but the exposure is there.

 

[Bottesini]

The Deaf have been waiting for tis for years and years. Many of them. Yes, there have been some improvements and advancements, but, the hearing people need to understand that not all deaf or hoh people want our hands held every step of the way. We want equality in all things. Yes, we may need more than others, but then again, so do those hearing people that need more things for different disabilities or such. I am not saying being deaf or hoh is a disability, so please don't think that's what I said. We are able and capable people. We just need certain things to help make our lives easier. I find I am speechless when I "hear" people make ready adjustments for the low vision or blind, or the wheelchair users or even the autistic or down's syndrome, but they are not ready to make the same type of needed adjustments for the deaf and hoh.

I think some of the adjustments you mention that are not for the deaf, are just easier and less costly to accomplish and that is why the get done.

 

[TheOracle]

I have to say that a lot of the misconception and misunderstanding on the part of hearing individuals comes from lack of knowledge. Given that hearing loss is a low incidence "disability" many people have very limited experience and real knowledge of what it means.
I think that most hearing individuals given appropriate information and training on the topic, would in fact be more understanding and sensitive to the unique needs of deaf individuals.
The phrase "deaf and dumb" is so tacky, and I really thought that we had done away with that. Sure, perhaps some people might equate spoken language to level of intelligence, but those are people who need to be educated on the subject.
My son is currently mainstreamed and I think that it's of benefit to the other children to have exposure to him and sign language. It's been an opportunity to educate these children about what it means and perhaps they will grow up with a better understanding than those with no exposure.
I think that's what it boils down to; early exposure and information, and the opportunity for them to observe and ask questions. I go into my sons class about once a week to teach them some sign language and they've all responded well. That's not to say they are fluent signers, but the exposure is there.

 

[shel90]

Yes, it wasn't 100% an "one way street". That is the "hearing only picked on the deaf and not vice versa". Like I pointed out in a couple of posts, I wasn't exactly always a "saint" either. And went right along with playing this "popularity" game along my peers. And there were times that some of my hearing peers or classmates were picked on even more so than I was for whatever various reasons they were.

Sure, there may have been times I was made fun of. Although in fairness to some of my peers, sometime it was simply to get me to "shutup" when I was arguing balls or strikes or about some of the calls made in a game and so forth. LOL!

This is not about being bullied only. This is about being cut off from communicationa and information more than their hearing peers and then the bullies taking advantage of that.

I had bullies gang up on me telling that that our teacher said this or that knowing that I didnt have the same access to information as they did so I believed them and as a result, I got into trouble with my teachers.

That is what hearing people do NOT experience.

 

[AlleyCat]

Yes!

I used to have countless kids come up to me and scream at me in my ear, or talk behind me, then demand of me to tell them what they said. I couldn't without lipreading, so they would laugh at me. That doesn't happen to hearing people either.

 

[shel90]

Let me put it this way...it doesn't matter if deafydyke is deaf or hearing...I <3 her anyway.

The fact that she IS deaf means something to her so THAT matters to me.

dd, you need to have more faith in hearing people. they'll come around. it's a matter of time -- and maybe some political organization.

Waited from kindergarten alll the way to college years until I got fed up. Then I got involved with the Deaf community and my life improved since then. Why should I wait around for hearing people to come through and continue to suffer being in a restrictive environment 24/7? Why should any kid for hte sake of mainstreaming and oralism?

Give all kids both so that way they wont be put at risks for deprivation.

Sure some deaf kids do fine but many dont and for what? Those deaf kids who did fine would probably do just as fine if they were exposed to ASL. Maybe they will grow up not wanting ASL or the Deaf community in their lives which is their decision but many grow up trying to be "hearing" or idenitfy themselves as "broken" hearing people not knowing that there is a language that is fully accessible and a community just like them. That, to me, is really unecessary.

 

[Daredevel7]

Sure some deaf kids do fine but many dont and for what? Those deaf kids who did fine would probably do just as fine if they were exposed to ASL.

Probably? That's odd. I thought you'd have more confidence than that?

 

[shel90]

Probably? That's odd. I thought you'd have more confidence than that?

If I had said, they would do better if they had ASL, would that make me biased? I am very confident that ASL wont hurt them but some people here are very sensitive when people make definite claims so I just played it safe. I dont feel like getting into an argument with some people who felt that by having ASL, they wouldnt be where they are.

 

[deafdyke]

a deaf child want to go to public school, no one should try to stop her, but no one should go around saying mainstream is the best for deaf children, or all deaf should be mainstreamed

. Exactly. Educational placement for dhh kids, as well as kids with disabilties needs to be VERY carefully done. Very carefully. Mainstreaming CAN be amazing. But it shouldn't automaticly be assumed that it's the best placement for kids. It does seem like a lot of the kids who do well in the mainstream are the kind who would have done well even in the old days before mainstreaming became the norm.
i

'm saying i doubt it wouldn't have happened if you had been hearing.

Shows how much you know. I was NOT picked on/bullied just in general. I was picked on/bullied due to the fact that I am hoh. You were NOT THERE. Would dumb jocks or dumb people assume I'm MR b/c of my deaf voice, if I was hearing? That really was the key thing......stupid people thinking I'm MR, and treating me like a fucking outcast, simply b/c of the way I talk!

 

[shel90]

i meant myself...in regards to eardrums...:p

What is this backlash against teachers?
I did not say that glasses was equivalent to hearing loss. I was saying that if it weren't for the glasses, then it would have been the shoes. Or something else. (About that time I started getting into fights and it all subsided, but anyway...) Kids are nasty in sixth grade, yes, but I'm 100% positive that having kids of all kinds around made me a little less ignorant than some when I left school.

Adults who encounter someone "different" for the first time tend to be nervous...while people who have had various exposures tend not to be the morons.

I'm not saying that mainstreaming always works. NO. I'm saying that I see why it's pushed. When I was in teacher ed, I was always taught that the LRE also pertained to mainstreaming...as in, students should be with the general ed as much as possible...can you direct me to some alternate case law so I can look that up? It would be good for me to know. Thanks




And...I do know what it's like to struggle because of a hearing loss. You asked, so I'm responding. My unilateral hearing loss isn't the same experience, but it doesn't mean I pick up on everything in class or in a conversation...I always have the TV up loud, sit in the front, and study faces so I can catch what I may have missed through speechreading. I RARELY know what my peers are saying when they ask questions. Again, I'm telling you because you asked. I can imagine it would be a lot more exhausting if I had bilateral hearing loss. My younger experiences could've just been because I was a weird combination of awkward and confident.

What backlash against teachers? Where?

 

[deafdyke]

What about all the oral aural kids who did decently by sitting up front and speechreading the teacher?
you specifically call those kids who did well "superstars", you can't have it both ways.

FM systems would be one way to make sure the student IS hearing well in noise.

No, I said decently. That can mean dog paddling to one of those kids who only needs minimal accomondations to make honor roll. I did decently in the classroom while speechreading....and many others have done well. Why do you view speechreading as a "crutch?" Go over to the HA/CI thread, and read the thread by the dude whose CIs are busted. He has NO speechreading or sign skills. He was trained auditory verbal, but he doesn't have a full toolbox. What you don't understand is that dhh kids can use their residual hearing pretty well, but it's only useful in SOME situtions, like when there's a good speaker. NOT everyone has professional speaker quality speech. There's accents, mumbeling etc.

 

[KristinaB]

I also was told to sit "front row, center seat" and since the class always was seated alphabetically, I was always out of place. It seems that the "M's" were always in the back in my classes, but there I was in between "F" and "G".

 

[TheOracle]

I was in the front right hand side, so I always got to sit by the cutest boy in class...but it was still odd.

I feel like if you just stick up a middle finger to the hearing world, it's not going to get you far. Not as a group...and obviously dhh isn't a collective group. Still, it bothers me that so many people on this board have issues with the way things are but they don't think they need to do anything to change it.

 

[deafgalO01]

Wirelessly posted

Good grief. Did you really think deaf don't do anything to change it? How about "deaf president NOW" protest, thats one example.



And honestly, I do not enjoy explaining my deafness every waking moment, and what I need. Did you know I spend 80% of my time daily (yes daily because people get carry away and forgot like keep covering their mouth or looking away) explaining these sort of things

 

[deafskeptic]

Wirelessly posted

Good grief. Did you really think deaf don't do anything to change it? How about "deaf president NOW" protest, thats one example.



And honestly, I do not enjoy explaining my deafness every waking moment, and what I need. Did you know I spend 80% of my time daily (yes daily because people get carry away and forgot like keep covering their mouth or looking away) explaining these sort of things

Ya, i have to do this even with my own family. I just spent the last hour reminding hte ER people to look at me when talking to me and now I'm not in the best of moods.

 

[shel90]

I was in the front right hand side, so I always got to sit by the cutest boy in class...but it was still odd.

I feel like if you just stick up a middle finger to the hearing world, it's not going to get you far. Not as a group...and obviously dhh isn't a collective group. Still, it bothers me that so many people on this board have issues with the way things are but they don't think they need to do anything to change it.

Oh wow...you got lots to learn about Deaf culture.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

dd, i don't view lipreading as a crutch. I view it as the impractical guessing game that it is. Research has shown that only 30% of english can be lipread, even in the best of settings, and school is not an ideal situation. The rest is guesswork and "closure skills" and generally children do not have the language skills to do that.

as for "being lost without it". Some people are good lipreaders, some are not. Hearing status is atually unrelated. More than likely he just FEELS like he is lost when lipreading, and he is just getting the average amount of information. It just feels incomplete because he is used to actual, good access to language, not guessing.

 

[deafgalO01]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted

dd, i don't view lipreading as a crutch. I view it as the impractical guessing game that it is. Research has shown that only 30% of english can be lipread, even in the best of settings, and school is not an ideal situation. The rest is guesswork and "closure skills" and generally children do not have the language skills to do that.

as for "being lost without it". Some people are good lipreaders, some are not. Hearing status is atually unrelated. More than likely he just FEELS like he is lost when lipreading, and he is just getting the average amount of information. It just feels incomplete because he is used to actual, good access to language, not guessing.

Thats for lipreading alone. I wonder about speechreading - lipreading PLUS sounds with hearing equipments (HAs, CI, etc.) It still guesswork but I can pick up words pretty accurate, not always though. HAs alone..no. lipreading alone...no. I have to use both to pick up words accurately.