The Last Stand for the Deaf in California

[faire_jour]

It "Seems" impossible TO YOU and to those who didn't EVEN want to try. My mom got this fierce desire to get connected with me enough to learn sign language in SHORT time. She was the one that taught me sign language, ENCOURAGED me to read books EVERY NIGHT for an hour then I was AHEAD of others when I was in HEARING ELEMENTARY school (with interpreters)! When I moved to deaf institute for a short while, I was IMMEDIATELY send to mainstream into hearing school and I even went to gifted group at HEARING school. I won top 10 debating in 4 different states (all hearing), won Gold Medal in Basic Electronics AND Bronze Medal in Advanced Electronics against hearing schools in state of Delaware during my high school years! I even attended college during my senior year.

I went and majored in Electronics Engineering at RIT and I am now a IT professional working with servers, active directory, exchange 2007, and various technologies.

Instead of researching for best ways, finding most perfect ways or criticizing others on what things should be, DO spend your time with THAT child, develop communication with THAT child, find effective way to get THAT child to communicate with you and USE THAT communication AS A TOOL to bring THAT child up and INTRODUCE THAT child to your OWN language (English).

ASL, to me, is a SPOKEN language and ENGLISH is both written and spoken language. I just read a lot of good books (Encyclopedia is a GREAT book for your child), studying its language and I ALWAYS strive to excel in writing.

Think about it.

I didn't make up the information. You can not become fluent in a language overnight.

And, for your information, I AM an ASL user, as is my Deaf daughter. ASL is her first language and she attended a wonderful bi-bi school for 3 years.

 

[deafgal001]

That is very true, teachers in public school do bypass deaf children's bad writing, even special ED teachers. They mark it off as LD due to being deaf.

And one deaf child in the whole school is not going to count, but majority deaf children in a deaf school does.

 

[faire_jour]

And Shel, I think there are some good Deaf schools and there are some very bad ones. I feel like there are people here who believe that if you give a child ASL and they attend a Deaf school, everything will be perfect, and that just isn't true.

ASL is a totally different language than English. If a child's primary and native language is ASL, they will be reading and writing FOREVER in their second language. The problem with a second language is that it isn't your first language (DUH!). So, unless a child is raised bilingually from the start (with English and ASL) they will not develop native fluency in both languages. They will be able to develop "near native" fluency, but unless the language is acquired before age 6 or 7, it will never be native. (Hyltenstam 1992)

So, how that applies to Deaf children...if they are learning English as a second language (written) they will not be naturally acquiring it in their early years, which mean they will only be able to acquire "near native" fluency.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Wirelessly posted

..... No. We're talking about 'bad seeds' at Deaf schools. :|

 

[deafgal001]

I think deaf children's first language have always been visual. Just that ASL made it easier to express it. The grammar order of ASL is what make sense to visual learners and it is not the problem. Many oral - only deaf have been told they write alittle different from their hearing peers even if their first language is English. I don't think it ever was their first language.

 

[faire_jour]

I think deaf children's first language have always been visual. Just that ASL made it easier to express it. The grammar order of ASL is what make sense to visual learners and it is not the problem. Many oral - only deaf have been told they write alittle different from their hearing peers even if their first language is English. I don't think it ever was their first language.

This may have been true in the past, but because of newborn screenings, early intervention and cochlear implants I don't believe it is. There are many deaf children who learn language developmentally and never have a delay because they have been fitted with appropriate amplification and have had access to spoken language from a very young (months old) age.

 

[Bebonang]

I didn't make up the information. You can not become fluent in a language overnight.

And, for your information, I AM an ASL user, as is my Deaf daughter. ASL is her first language and she attended a wonderful bi-bi school for 3 years.

I have to agree with Shel. You seem to be resenting ASL as it is not a complete sign language like Signed Exact English which you want your daughter to sign better than ASL. Anyway, as for all of us who are Deaf really want to use ASL as a visual. It is about visual, visual, and visual. We need that very badly. Not on lipreading unless the deaf have no problem reading lips with no difficulty. Of course, ASL is not the same as speaking in English correctly. But that is how we communicate and we understand ASL because it is sign in words but also mime to explain or tell the story. That is how we communicate that way.

SEE is too much trouble going through the exact signs as it takes longer to communicate so that is why we want ASL the best even if it is not complete sign English. I am glad that your daughter is her first ASL language and hopefully she can continue to use it more even she is learning spoken language.

Listening is not the best appropriate way to hear, even with CI. Listening would be by using our eyes to read lips, not by hearing. If the child has a mild hearing loss, then the child would be able to understand the words with no trouble, but unfortunately a child will always miss the words or sentences and try to recapture what the person is saying. It happen often with us trying to understand hearing people. That is why I say listening is impossible but you keep saying that listening is possible for CI or mild hearing loss to hear. Ha, that is laughable.

I hope I am making sense to explain to you and others. Only don't put words into my mouth. If you are still disagreeing or against it, then that is fine with me. I don't care. :roll:

 

[deafgal001]

Here's an example of a child falling behind and now have to go to oral school despite that he had cochlear implant since he was 2 years old (the parents don't care for Sign Language) http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20100827-NEWS-8270337

Usually public school put children like this in LD classes or special education classes for reading and writing in middle school if the parents don't want to go to deaf school route. But only if they have a decent oral and listening skills. I'm sure they have a reason why they suggested sign language.

 

[Banjo]

Here's an example of a child falling behind and now have to go to oral school despite that he had cochlear implant since he was 2 years old (the parents don't care for Sign Language) Parents of a deaf student plan to sue SAU 16 for not providing an adequate education | SeacoastOnline.com

"They're saying because they can't teach him aurally they want to add sign language," she said. "That's like saying 'if your son isn't learning English I'm going teach him Latin. Does anybody else in the community speak Latin? It isn't going to help him communicate with his peers."

The parents clearly don't have a clue when it comes to language development. No wonder why their son is falling behind. What a pity.

Petit began researching alternatives when she realized how far behind her son had fallen. After she and the district explored a number of schools with programs for deaf children, Petit settled on the Clarke School, which would cost the district around $100,000 per year.

$100,000 per year? I wonder how they did the math on that one because that's pretty expensive.

 

[LinuxGold]

I didn't make up the information. You can not become fluent in a language overnight.

OFC, overnight is *I*m*p*o*SS*i*B*L*e*!

And, for your information, I AM an ASL user, as is my Deaf daughter. ASL is her first language and she attended a wonderful bi-bi school for 3 years.

Then why are you arguing with us? What are you trying to achieve here? You are doing the right thing right now.

 

[katz4life]

Spoken language is not fully accessible to deaf children. That's why the parents must learn ASL too. Stop putting all the responsibility on the children..parents need to do their part as well. That's the problem.

That's why I thanked my parents for this.

 

[katz4life]

Many of my deaf friends, including my brother, came from families who dont sign but still were able to achieve fluency in English.

My son's deaf friend is from a hearing family and they learned ASL as soon as they found out that she was deaf at a year old. Her language fluency is 2 years above normal despite having parents who just learned ASL.

Both the parents and the schools played an important role. If the parents arent actively involved or the child is missing out in the classroom due to not having a visual language, the risks for language delays increase.

My bf's two Deaf female classmates graduated at the age of 16 from Deaf residental school and one of them has 99 percent perfect in English and she now is a teacher for deaf children at a school in AZ. Both of them comes from strong Deaf family especially their Deaf parents. They're both the same age as I, and they're too brillant women.

 

[katz4life]

It seems to me that she wants to spend a lot of time finding faults with Deaf schools and the staff who work there.

 

[kokonut]

Last I heard, this bill passed late today in Sacramento by a count of 22 to 11.

Passed concurrence, 59 to 1. Bill now goes to the Governator's desk for his signature (signs on the dotted line...."X").

 

[AlleyCat]

......

That is if the family works their butt off to learn ASL right from the start. The problem is that it taked 5-7 years to become fluent in a language. In the meantime the child struggles and falls behind in ASL. Plus, even if a family gets a good working knowledge of ASL, they will never be native users and will always shave struggles with the language barrier.
.... .

Where do you get this? Please don't tell me you found this in a book or something. One thing we've discussed so much on this forum is that there is no one size fits all, that everyone is different. So if a book or some research paper tells you this, you have to take that with a grain of salt. I can say with certainty that just about everyone that is close to me (family, SO, close friends, etc.) became fluent in FAR LESS time, and judging from the posts I've read succeeding yours, others agree. It makes me think that's why you were pooh-pooing the idea of learning sign from books, online, videos, etc. in other threads. Are you thinking it's just too much work for too long to make the effort?

 

[katz4life]

This year alone, we got 14 new students transferring from the public schools after falling behind. Almost all of them have CIs. Fj..pls explain how it is the Deaf school's fault? Think about it.

Wow...serious? That's so sad.

 

[Bebonang]

I don't know. Foreign object left in the body is not what I wanted.

I was thinking about what you said. Maybe that is why I don't want the government and the Assembly to give out brochures to the newly parents of deaf children about CI. What would happen if the child later could not hear with the CI because it does not work? That would mean more money to cut up again and take the non-working device out of the cochlear. With the hearing aids, a parent can change another devices (another brands)? Beside babies and little toddlers are too young and they should enjoy their babyhood into childhood without having the CI. Hearing aid is the best thing. Nobody like having the CI device leave in the cochlear if that does not work at all. How about it, eh?

 

[Foxrac]

This year alone, we got 14 new students transferring from the public schools after falling behind. Almost all of them have CIs. Fj..pls explain how it is the Deaf school's fault? Think about it.

Yup, I do know some kids with CI go to ASD after don't well in hearing school.

 

[deafskeptic]

OFC, overnight is *I*m*p*o*SS*i*B*L*e*!


Then why are you arguing with us? What are you trying to achieve here? You are doing the right thing right now.

I've been wondering that for a while now. I also think FJ is doing the right thing too so I don't get this.