The Economics of Cochlear Implants and Deafness?

jillio said:
True. But with a paper printout, the need for notetaking is also resolved. A student cannot focus on an LED screen for an entire lecture, and take notes at the same time without missing something on the LED screen, just as a student cannot focus 100% of their attention on a terp and take notes without missing part of a signed lecture, nor focus 100% of their attention on lip reading and take notes at the same time without missing part of what is being said.
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I use CART full time at school, so this is something I'm very familiar with. And I've used it both with residual (and now implanted) hearing, and with no auditory input whatsoever. There's a few things you seem to be missing that may be specific to the way your school does CART, but are not universal (and in my experience using CART in a variety of geographic reasons, are uncommon).

First, LED screens are not common in an environment where there's only one or two clients. They're often used in theater, or for conferences, but don't show up in the classroom all that much. Laptop screens are much more common, and much easier to read. (Not least because text stays up on the screen long enough that it's possible to look at the board or the professor, then back at the screen.)

And while I would agree that taking notes can be difficult while using CART, CART does generate a transcript that can be saved and sent to the student. I've always received transcripts at most a day or two after class (my reporters generally clean up the transcript a bit). That is something that's governed by the school's contract with the reporter or their agency; it's not a technical limitation of CART.
 
ismi said:
I use CART full time at school, so this is something I'm very familiar with. And I've used it both with residual (and now implanted) hearing, and with no auditory input whatsoever. There's a few things you seem to be missing that may be specific to the way your school does CART, but are not universal (and in my experience using CART in a variety of geographic reasons, are uncommon).

First, LED screens are not common in an environment where there's only one or two clients. They're often used in theater, or for conferences, but don't show up in the classroom all that much. Laptop screens are much more common, and much easier to read. (Not least because text stays up on the screen long enough that it's possible to look at the board or the professor, then back at the screen.)

And while I would agree that taking notes can be difficult while using CART, CART does generate a transcript that can be saved and sent to the student. I've always received transcripts at most a day or two after class (my reporters generally clean up the transcript a bit). That is something that's governed by the school's contract with the reporter or their agency; it's not a technical limitation of CART.
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Agreed. And we do use laptops rather than LED screens. I mentioned LED screens because they are much more common because many schools are not set up to share connections. Nor do they want to for security reasons.

While receiving a transcript a day or two following generation is a plus, there are still many students that prefer to have notes to review immediately following lecture to solidify the material covered. That is why our notetakers type notes on a laptop, and then immediatley place them on a jump drive so that a student can download them to their own laptop following class, or go directly to the student support office and print wirelessly a hard copy. That way the student has the reference material immediately following class, the same way a hearing student has their own notes available tothem immediately following class.
 
The CI could make a HUGE impact on the economy. Hearing loss costs our economy 56 billion dollars annually mostly due to productivity losses, special ed, and medical costs.
 
websterbud said:
The CI could make a HUGE impact on the economy. Hearing loss costs our economy 56 billion dollars annually mostly due to productivity losses, special ed, and medical costs.
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I can say the same thing for ASL. Suppose everybody know ASL, that alone could make a huge impact on the economy. Just look at Martha's Vineyard in 18th to 19th centuries. The richest man at that time happened to be deaf. No need for those CIs/HAs. Deaf and Hearing kids attend same school. Deaf and Hearing people work side by side.

Oh, if a hearing person loses his hearing or voice, no problem... as he knows ASL. No productivity losses there.
 
websterbud said:
The CI could make a HUGE impact on the economy. Hearing loss costs our economy 56 billion dollars annually mostly due to productivity losses, special ed, and medical costs.
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Ci users still need accodomations at school, still need to pay visits to the audiologist, and it is job discrimination that costs the economy billion of dollars by not hiring deaf people.
 
websterbud said:
The CI could make a HUGE impact on the economy. Hearing loss costs our economy 56 billion dollars annually mostly due to productivity losses, special ed, and medical costs.
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And CI has not been shown to reduce those costs, particularly in the arenas of education and medical costs. The vast majority of CI implanted students continue to require accommodations in the eductional environment, and lifetime medical costs associated with CI are actually higher than the lifetime costs associated with HA use. The claim of reduced costs to the society as a whole is simply a selling point used my CI manufacturers to lead the general public into a misplaced opinion regarding CI and its overall benefit.
 
Buffalo said:
I can say the same thing for ASL. Suppose everybody know ASL, that alone could make a huge impact on the economy. Just look at Martha's Vineyard in 18th to 19th centuries. The richest man at that time happened to be deaf. No need for those CIs/HAs. Deaf and Hearing kids attend same school. Deaf and Hearing people work side by side.

Oh, if a hearing person loses his hearing or voice, no problem... as he knows ASL. No productivity losses there.
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Excellent point. The only way to truly reduce the cost to a society in terms of productivity is to provide accommodation. CI is an individual remediation, not a societal remediation. The burden is placed on the individual to compensate, and this prevents total integration into the wider majority in terms of productivity and education. The changes must be made at a societal level for costs to be effectively reduced.
 
websterbud said:
The CI could make a HUGE impact on the economy. Hearing loss costs our economy 56 billion dollars annually mostly due to productivity losses, special ed, and medical costs.
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I disagree. This would only be the case if CI's actually cured deafness. Which it doesn't so a CI user will still cost the state a lot of money.

I'd be curious to know the economics of BiBi V Oral only aproach?
Considering the fact that many orally taught are more likely to suffer mental health issues. Those with Mental health issues are less likely to find work, and in some cases may need to spend time institutionalised if their mental health problems are severe enough. It does happen. With oral failures especially.

Have the results of this survey come out yet?
 
dreama said:
I disagree. This would only be the case if CI's actually cured deafness. Which it doesn't so a CI user will still cost the state a lot of money.

I'd be curious to know the economics of BiBi V Oral only aproach?
Considering the fact that many orally taught are more likely to suffer mental health issues. Those with Mental health issues are less likely to find work, and in some cases may need to spend time institutionalised if their mental health problems are severe enough. It does happen. With oral failures especially.

Have the results of this survey come out yet?
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Do you have any facts to back those statements up? Like, for instance the percentage of deaf raised oral only who suffer from "mental health issues" compared to the rest of the deaf population and compared to the rest of society? Likewise the percentage of those who become institutionalized?

Remember of course for your statement to be valid the cause for the mental health issues and/or institutionalization must be directly related to the person being raised oral only.

When our daughter was attending our public school, we worked with our school district's Special Educator director and were able to show that the cost of our daughter's education in the mainstream was one third of the cost of what it would be to send her to the Deaf School a few miles away. That was also not including the fact that her education at the Deaf School would be substandard and grossly inferior to the education she did receive in the mainstream.
Rick
 
rick48 said:
Do you have any facts to back those statements up? Like, for instance the percentage of deaf raised oral only who suffer from "mental health issues" compared to the rest of the deaf population and compared to the rest of society? Likewise the percentage of those who become institutionalized?

Remember of course for your statement to be valid the cause for the mental health issues and/or institutionalization must be directly related to the person being raised oral only.

When our daughter was attending our public school, we worked with our school district's Special Educator director and were able to show that the cost of our daughter's education in the mainstream was one third of the cost of what it would be to send her to the Deaf School a few miles away. That was also not including the fact that her education at the Deaf School would be substandard and grossly inferior to the education she did receive in the mainstream.
Rick
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The proportion of mental illness in the deaf popultions and the hearing populations is the same with 2 exceptions: a higher degree of depressive illnesses, and a higher degree of social anxiety disorders. Being deaf and being raised orally do not cuase the mental illness, but they are sertainly environmental factors that contirbute to the manisfestation of symtomology. If you are truly itnerested in the mental health of the deaf individual, I will refer you to the text Mental Health Services for the Deaf.

How do you know for sure that her education at the Deaf School would be substandard and inferior? Since she didn't attend, you have no idea what her experience would have been. Are you basing that on the fact that she likely would have learned sign as a child and ruined all your assimilation oral plans for her?

Children with CI in the mainstream are still having the need for expensive accommodation. Many still use terps. Many receive adjunct services. Many need remedial services. And, there are those, like those we are all familiar with from California, that are getting expensive CART services.

Cost effectiveness in realtion to reducing educational expenses and need for accommodation is a bit of propoganda that started in the medical community as a convincing argument for earlier implantation. Its a shame that parents are actually believing it and using it as justification to not provide acommodation for their child.
 
jillio said:
The proportion of mental illness in the deaf popultions and the hearing populations is the same with 2 exceptions: a higher degree of depressive illnesses, and a higher degree of social anxiety disorders. Being deaf and being raised orally do not cuase the mental illness, but they are sertainly environmental factors that contirbute to the manisfestation of symtomology. If you are truly itnerested in the mental health of the deaf individual, I will refer you to the text Mental Health Services for the Deaf.

How do you know for sure that her education at the Deaf School would be substandard and inferior? Since she didn't attend, you have no idea what her experience would have been. Are you basing that on the fact that she likely would have learned sign as a child and ruined all your assimilation oral plans for her?

Children with CI in the mainstream are still having the need for expensive accommodation. Many still use terps. Many receive adjunct services. Many need remedial services. And, there are those, like those we are all familiar with from California, that are getting expensive CART services.

Cost effectiveness in realtion to reducing educational expenses and need for accommodation is a bit of propoganda that started in the medical community as a convincing argument for earlier implantation. Its a shame that parents are actually believing it and using it as justification to not provide acommodation for their child.
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I developed social anxiety issues by being raised oral only. Whenever I go back to a non signing environment, my anxiety level shoots up like a rocket. Sometimes, I become literally sick to my stomach and get bad gas/diaherra cramps. It really really sucks to live with it. My brother who was not raised orally absulotely has no anxiety issues when he is in a non signing environment. In fact, he makes the initial moves to chat with hearing people who dont know sign while I practically run away and I AM the one with the "perfect" oral skills. Go figure!!! :roll:
 
shel90 said:
I developed social anxiety issues by being raised oral only. Whenever I go back to a non signing environment, my anxiety level shoots up like a rocket. Sometimes, I become literally sick to my stomach and get bad gas/diaherra cramps. It really really sucks to live with it. My brother who was not raised orally absulotely has no anxiety issues when he is in a non signing environment. In fact, he makes the initial moves to chat with hearing people who dont know sign while I practically run away and I AM the one with the "perfect" oral skills. Go figure!!! :roll:
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Your story is not unusual. And, like I said before, its not the being deaf that causes the social anxiety disorder. It is the environment that creates it. So having oral skills doesn't protect someone from it.

I agree, the disorder does suck to live with. Its a shame that some people won't look beyond the ears and the mouth of the deaf child to what is going on with them on the inside....turmoil, fear, anxiety, etc. etc.
 
That's what I meant. I wasn't saying it had anything to do with deafness. Just the method of teaching deaf. I know that the oral only tecnique doesn't work because that's what I was brough up with. I have suffered mental health issues although in my case it is also inheritary. When I went to the special clinic at this mental hospital there were some deaf there that just couldn't communicate at all.
 
dreama said:
That's what I meant. I wasn't saying it had anything to do with deafness. Just the method of teaching deaf. I know that the oral only tecnique doesn't work because that's what I was brough up with. I have suffered mental health issues although in my case it is also inheritary. When I went to the special clinic at this mental hospital there were some deaf there that just couldn't communicate at all.
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Absolutley agreed. And even though your mental health issues are heriditary, in a different environment, the issues might never have become manifest.
 
jillio said:
Absolutley agreed. And even though your mental health issues are heriditary, in a different environment, the issues might never have become manifest.
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In my family, alcoholism is common and I almost fell victim to this disease because I was getting drunk almost every weekend starting in high school all the way through my early 20s because I relied on alcohol to ease my anxiety at social events. Tnank god I had enough understanding of the disease from watching some of my family members suffer from it preventing me from falling victim to it.
 
shel90 said:
In my family, alcoholism is common and I almost fell victim to this disease because I was getting drunk almost every weekend starting in high school all the way through my early 20s because I relied on alcohol to ease my anxiety at social events. Tnank god I had enough understanding of the disease from watching some of my family members suffer from it preventing me from falling victim to it.
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Yes, you were lucky that you recognized all the warning signs.
 
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