Teaching Pre Schoolers ASL

Daredevel7 said:
And you mentioned the profoundly deaf Ph.D's because...?
Click to expand...

Quite simple. One cannot achieve a Ph.D. without being able to read complicated and technical vocabulary, and apply it to other situations. That would be called literacy. And a literacy that is achieved without the use of phonics.
 
Daredevel7 said:
And you mentioned the profoundly deaf Ph.D's because...?
Click to expand...

I think because you keep grasping for an oralist advantage. If you find it wasn't there as you thought, you are going to start feeling bitter about your childhood.

It looks to an observer as that is the direction you are going.
 
jillio said:
Quite simple. One cannot achieve a Ph.D. without being able to read complicated and technical vocabulary, and apply it to other situations. That would be called literacy. And a literacy that is achieved without the use of phonics.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you're not assuming that I am saying that you need to hear to have vocabulary...?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Are you sure you're not assuming that I am saying that you need to hear to have vocabulary...?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Because one must be able not just to read the vocabulary, but to be able to translate such into a meaningful symbol in order to achieve comprehension. Literacy isn't about vocab. It is about comprehension and application. You are saying that phonics provides an advantage in that process. I am saying it does not.
 
Bottesini said:
I think because you keep grasping for an oralist advantage. If you find it wasn't there as you thought, you are going to start feeling bitter about your childhood.

It looks to an observer as that is the direction you are going.
Click to expand...

That's pretty amusing to me. The funniest part is the I am trying to make you guys see why you guys are not taken seriously. Communication is more effective when you address reality of the situation. There is a LOT of "absolutes" throwing around here.

It seems to me that being so overly confident and "This ABSOLUTELY will NOT affect ANYTHING" has a more detrimental effect....
 
Daredevel7 said:
That's pretty amusing to me. The funniest part is the I am trying to make you guys see why you guys are not taken seriously. Communication is more effective when you address reality of the situation. There is a LOT of "absolutes" throwing around here.

It seems to me that being so overly confident and "This ABSOLUTELY will NOT affect ANYTHING" has a more detrimental effect....
Click to expand...

Even the deaf programs in our public schools in my area are going away from oralism and employing deaf teachers of the deaf.

You are a little behind the times.
 
Bottesini said:
I think because you keep grasping for an oralist advantage. If you find it wasn't there as you thought, you are going to start feeling bitter about your childhood.

It looks to an observer as that is the direction you are going.
Click to expand...

I am not too sure how finding out that oralism sucks for the majority would make me feel bad about my childhood... it seems to me that the more I realize that deaf people cannot do well with oralism, the more I would be proud of myself?

But I guess not?
 
Daredevel7 said:
That's pretty amusing to me. The funniest part is the I am trying to make you guys see why you guys are not taken seriously. Communication is more effective when you address reality of the situation. There is a LOT of "absolutes" throwing around here.

It seems to me that being so overly confident and "This ABSOLUTELY will NOT affect ANYTHING" has a more detrimental effect....
Click to expand...

The reality of the situation is that the conclusions you are drawing are not supported through the fields of study and research that apply. Ours are.
 
Bottesini said:
Even the deaf programs in our public schools in my area are going away from oralism and employing deaf teachers of the deaf.

You are a little behind the times.
Click to expand...

I am talking about here on AD. Seems like the same song over and over, and even though I haven't been here long, but I don't think parents get that MUCH out of it....
 
Daredevel7 said:
I am talking about here on AD. Seems like the same song over and over, and even though I haven't been here long, but I don't think parents get that MUCH out of it....
Click to expand...

If they don't get much out of it, it is because they are too busy trying to refute and convince ADers that the hearing pespective is right and not spending enough time paying attention to what they are told.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I am talking about here on AD. Seems like the same song over and over, and even though I haven't been here long, but I don't think parents get that MUCH out of it....
Click to expand...

But we just had this discussion. This is a forum for the deaf. There are plenty of forums for hearing parents where they can agree with each other.
 
jillio said:
The reality of the situation is that the conclusions you are drawing are not supported through the fields of study and research that apply. Ours are.
Click to expand...

Studies and research serve the majority only.

I don't particularly want to live in a world where everyone is given the same treatment.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Studies and research serve the majority only.

I don't particularly want to live in a world where everyone is given the same treatment.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Studies and research seek to understand the majority, which in turn, allows a greater understanding of the minority.

You are in luck. There is no such world.
 
jillio said:
Incorrect. Studies and research seek to understand the majority, which in turn, allows a greater understanding of the minority.

You are in luck. There is no such world.
Click to expand...

Yay!!!

Alright, people kept saying "I don't get why hearing parents have no problem teaching hearing kids ASL, but not deaf kids." And I tried to explain their perspective, because it's assumed that parents think ASL is limiting, when it isn't really the case.

Haven't you learned "know your enemy"?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Yay!!!

Alright, people kept saying "I don't get why hearing parents have no problem teaching hearing kids ASL, but not deaf kids." And I tried to explain their perspective, because it's assumed that parents think ASL is limiting, when it isn't really the case.

Haven't you learned "know your enemy"?
Click to expand...

So you are getting to know us.:wave:
 
Daredevel7 said:
Yay!!!

Alright, people kept saying "I don't get why hearing parents have no problem teaching hearing kids ASL, but not deaf kids." And I tried to explain their perspective, because it's assumed that parents think ASL is limiting, when it isn't really the case.

Haven't you learned "know your enemy"?
Click to expand...

And it has been explained to you that it is a logic that is convoluted when a hearing parent thinks it is cute to teach a hearing child sign. Then when that same hearing parent has a deaf child, and sign is to taught not just for cuteness, but for the very real advantage that it can provide the deaf child, all of a sudden, it becomes something to be denied. Just because a hearing parent teaches a hearing child sign does not mean that they have let go of the audist beleif that spoken language is superior.
 
jillio said:
And it has been explained to you that it is a logic that is convoluted when a hearing parent thinks it is cute to teach a hearing child sign. Then when that same hearing parent has a deaf child, and sign is to taught not just for cuteness, but for the very real advantage that it can provide the deaf child, all of a sudden, it becomes something to be denied. Just because a hearing parent teaches a hearing child sign does not mean that they have let go of the audist beleif that spoken language is superior.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY. Those parents who teach their child ASL probably wouldn't (or at least would be apprehensive about it) teach their DEAF child ASL. I am saying, it has nothing to do with ASL itself. They don't believe ASL itself is limiting. They believe that using ASL on deaf children can have negative long term effects on speech. It seems to me that I HAVE to repeat this: This does NOT reflect MY views.
 
Daredevel7 said:
EXACTLY. Those parents who teach their child ASL probably wouldn't (or at least would be apprehensive about it) teach their DEAF child ASL. I am saying, it has nothing to do with ASL itself. They don't believe ASL itself is limiting. They believe that using ASL on deaf children can have negative long term effects on speech. It seems to me that I HAVE to repeat this: This does NOT reflect MY views.
Click to expand...

And why are they concerned about speech skills over adequate language exposure? Because they see spoken English as a superior language. Which in turn, makes ASL an inferior language.
 
Back
Top