substituting or is this what he hears?

[dhn121]

If he has 120db loss, he is not going to have access to speech understanding through hearing aids.

only in his right ear and only in the 4000hz. he does have access to it from his left ear.

 

[Deafguy25]

what I meant is, right now, the professionals (AuD and speech therapist) is telling me wait, give him time to adjust to his hearing aids. this is the normal process and that his articulation will get caught up. even though his hearing loss in the 4000hz is in the 120db unaided. aided he still doesn't have access to the "s", "f", "sh"...etc...sound. Is that right? So what I meant is, should I wait like they suggest or should I find ways to push for the CI since we know he doesn't have access to the sound in the 4000hz in his right ear even aided. They're saying his right ear hears in the 25-30db in those frequencies and that's good enough.

If he doesn't have access, he doesn't have access. And if he doesn't hear it, he will have to rely on lipreading and being explicitly taught those sounds he doesn't hear.

What is the softest he can understand speech? Not just press a button and say he heard something vs nothing, but hear and understand the difference between words.

 

[Deafguy25]

only in his right ear and only in the 4000hz. he does have access to it from his left ear.

It sounds to me like you aren't interested in a cochlear implant. And that is just fine! He does have access to a lot of speech through his hearing aids. He will have gaps in his hearing so you will need to come up with cues to remind him about the sounds he is missing. I would also recommend that you amp up your signing. He is missing at least 30% (and I would guess much more than that) of what is being said around him. Are you OK with that?

 

[DeafCaroline]

It sounds to me like you aren't interested in a cochlear implant. And that is just fine! He does have access to a lot of speech through his hearing aids. He will have gaps in his hearing so you will need to come up with cues to remind him about the sounds he is missing. I would also recommend that you amp up your signing. He is missing at least 30% (and I would guess much more than that) of what is being said around him. Are you OK with that?

I believe she said her son doesn't qualify for a CI because his speech progress is too good.

At least that's what I'm understanding from her posts.

 

[dhn121]

Is a CI something you are looking at? If so, can you do more difficult testing? When I was being tested for my second CI they tested me with sentences. The ESP has very simple words like hotdog and airplane. They are very different and 9 out of 12 means that he is still missing 30% of very simple and easy words. If he can't hear the difference between ice cream cone and toothbrush, how would he ever hear well enough to distinguish between can, can't, man, fan, cans, pan and tan? The WIPI uses pictures but is much more in depth and could give you a clearer picture of what he can and can not hear.

the AuD told me he has to get a 50% or lower to qualify. so according to her, he's doing "too good" to qualify. he just turned 4 (hearing age 1) so the ESP test is hard for him. These are new vocabulary words for him. at 3 years of age he only said 2 maybe 4 words. so he's come a long way in 1 year and has done a great job catching up. I have to look at the WIPI test and see what that intells...

 

[Deafguy25]

I believe she said her son doesn't qualify for a CI because his speech progress is too good.

At least that's what I'm understanding from her posts.

I don't believe that is the case here. She is saying that he is unintelligible and he is 4 years old. He has a severe-profound loss and limited speech understanding. If she wants an implant for him she may have to pursue it, but if she doesn't, it is my opinion that she needs to sign more because he isn't hearing enough to rely on his hearing for understanding language.

 

[dhn121]

I believe she said her son doesn't qualify for a CI because his speech progress is too good.

At least that's what I'm understanding from her posts.

I am looking at CI. We went to get him tested to see if he qualify for it. We were told he does not. he has to lose more hearing in the lower frequency to qualify. which doesn't make sense to me because a lot of the english language uses the "t", "f" "s" (high frequecy sounds). those are a lot that he's missing out on. They told me, right now he's still progressing with the hearing aids. he has to plateau before he qualifies?...

 

[Deafguy25]

the AuD told me he has to get a 50% or lower to qualify. so according to her, he's doing "too good" to qualify. he just turned 4 (hearing age 1) so the ESP test is hard for him. These are new vocabulary words for him. at 3 years of age he only said 2 maybe 4 words. so he's come a long way in 1 year and has done a great job catching up. I have to look at the WIPI test and see what that intells...

I understand he has only had his hearing aids for one year, but he is 4. If you want him to catch up, he needs to be gaining very quickly.


The language skills of four-year-olds expand rapidly. They begin communicating in complex and compound sentences, have very few pronunciation errors and expand their vocabularies daily. They can follow multi-step directions and understand explanations given for things they can see. Four-year-olds frequently initiate conversations and are less likely to change the subject of conversation to areas of personal interest. They are also getting better at sharing personal experiences without prompts from adults.
Four-year-olds are building their knowledge of written language. They want to know what words in their environment say and can recognize many letters. By the end of this year, many children understand that letters represent the sounds in spoken words and may associate some letters with their sounds. Most children also are capable of writing some legible letters and know that writing goes from left-to-right and top to bottom.
Four-year-olds have an increased capacity for learning math concepts. They use logical reasoning to solve everyday problems and can effectively use language to compare and describe objects and shapes. They can count to "ten," recognize written numerals "0" to "9" and add and subtract using numbers up to "four." Four-year-olds know some variations of a circle, square, triangle and rectangle. They know days of the week, months and the seasons, but still cannot tell time.

This are the skills he should have.

I understand that he has only been hearing for a year, but is he gaining at a speed that he is getting close to this? If not, he isn't hearing well enough, so you need to sign so he can get the language he needs.

 

[DeafCaroline]

I am looking at CI. We went to get him tested to see if he qualify for it. We were told he does not. he has to lose more hearing in the lower frequency to qualify. which doesn't make sense to me because a lot of the english language uses the "t", "f" "s" (high frequecy sounds). those are a lot that he's missing out on. They told me, right now he's still progressing with the hearing aids. he has to plateau before he qualifies?...

Well, when I first started learning to speak after getting hearing aids, I had a much easier time hearing vowels then consonants (and that's still very much the case today - lipreading comes in handy for that, if I turn my back, and someone were to say "g, b, d, p" - all I hear is the "eee" - so when I was growing up, my mother had to show me the difference between say "p" and "b" - one being softer than the other -it's a labourious process). Sounds like right now, that's what's happening with your kid. He's picking up vowels but lagging on proper pronounciation of consonants.

so, i wouldn't worry yet till your child is older.

 

[Deafguy25]

Well, when I first started learning to speak after getting hearing aids, I had a much easier time hearing vowels then consonants (and that's still very much the case today - lipreading comes in handy for that, if I turn my back, and someone were to say "g, b, d, p" - all I hear is the "eee" - so when I was growing up, my mother had to show me the difference between say "p" and "b" - one being softer than the other -it's a labourious process). Sounds like right now, that's what's happening with your kid. He's picking up vowels but lagging on proper pronounciation of consonants.

so, i wouldn't worry yet till your child is older.

But he is not pronouncing because he can't hear it. Same as you. He isn't going to wake up one day and be able to hear the difference. He needs the sign to understand, or he needs to be able to hear better (a CI). Better yet, both!

 

[posts from hell]

I'll be frank here - The more he is missing out on language the more delayed he will be.

Spoken language is obviously going against the grain here, so that will create a bit of delays.

I'd suggest to get language in asap, and the easiest way at this moment is to have him learn sign, and perhaps things will move along faster.

What's LVAS?

 

[Deafguy25]

I'll be frank here - The more he is missing out on language the more delayed he will be.

Spoken language is obviously going against the grain here, so that will create a bit of delays.

I'd suggest to get language in asap, and the easiest way at this moment is to have him learn sign, and perhaps things will move along faster.

What's LVAS?

Yes, this.

 

[DeafCaroline]

But he is not pronouncing because he can't hear it. Same as you. He isn't going to wake up one day and be able to hear the difference. He needs the sign to understand, or he needs to be able to hear better (a CI). Better yet, both!

But I learned to pronounce all letters (except that darn Z) eventually. One doesn't NEED a CI or hear better for that. I really believe it's because he's so young that he just doesn't have the same desire or motivation as his mother to learn to speak properly, he's only 4.

My mother told me that it was so hard to get me interested in speech therapy when I first got my hearing aids at age 4. I had no interest whatsoever so she had to get very very creative about making me attentive and willing to learn.

 

[Deafguy25]

But I learned to pronounce all letters (except that darn Z) eventually. One doesn't NEED a CI or hear better for that. I really believe it's because he's so young that he just doesn't have the same desire or motivation as his mother to learn to speak properly, he's only 4.

My mother told me that it was so hard to get me interested in speech therapy when I first got my hearing aids at age 4. I had no interest whatsoever so she had to get very very creative about making me attentive and willing to learn.

Yes, he can be taught to make the sounds he doesn't hear, but he will not be able to understand those sounds when he is listening to someone else speak. Since she has him in an oral school, I assume she is looking to have him be able to understand speech as we as speak it.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Yes, he can be taught to make the sounds he doesn't hear, but he will not be able to understand those sounds when he is listening to someone else speak. Since she has him in an oral school, I assume she is looking to have him be able to understand speech as we as speak it.

He doesn't qualify for a CI so what else can she do to make him "hear" better? She can't. All she can do is try her best to help him understand as much as possible with what hearing he does have and through lipreading and by collaborating with teachers to get them to understand his needs.

Right now, he's not pronouncing consonants properly which is to be expected given his age and hearing levels. He will eventually improve.

I do agree with you that he should learn ASL as much as possible to develop linguistic skills.

 

[Deafguy25]

He doesn't qualify for a CI so what else can she do to make him "hear" better? She can't. All she can do is try her best to help him understand as much as possible with what hearing he does have and through lipreading and by collaborating with teachers to get them to understand his needs.

Right now, he's not pronouncing consonants properly which is to be expected given his age and hearing levels. He will eventually improve.

I do agree with you that he should learn ASL as much as possible to develop linguistic skills.

I just wanted to lay it out so she understood. He can eventually learn to say those sounds, but because he doesn't hear the sounds, he won't be able to understand. He is in an oral program, and he can't hear a huge portion of what is being said to him. You are right, if he doesn't get a CI, there is nothing that can be changed about that. He does have LVA, so it is likely that he will end up losing more hearing.

 

[DeafCaroline]

I just wanted to lay it out so she understood. He can eventually learn to say those sounds, but because he doesn't hear the sounds, he won't be able to understand. He is in an oral program, and he can't hear a huge portion of what is being said to him. You are right, if he doesn't get a CI, there is nothing that can be changed about that. He does have LVA, so it is likely that he will end up losing more hearing.

He can understand. I was already reading books six months after getting my hearing aids even though my hearing loss is in the 90-110 decibel range.

Let's try to be encouraging here. She's worried that because he's still lagging that there might be other problems asides from hearing loss. I am assuring her it's normal at that age and that he will eventually catch up. There was a time when my parents thought I was autistic because I was so behind when the truth was, I just wasn't hearing.

I grew up oral and mainstreamed, speaking from experience.

 

[Deafguy25]

He can understand. I was already reading books six months after getting my hearing aids even though my hearing loss is in the 90-110 decibel range.

Let's try to be encouraging here. She's worried that because he's still lagging that there might be other problems asides from hearing loss. I am assuring her it's normal at that age and that he will eventually catch up. There was a time when my parents thought I was autistic because I was so behind when the truth was, I just wasn't hearing.

I grew up oral and mainstreamed, speaking from experience.

You just said a few posts ago that with your back turned all consonants sound the same. I don't understand how you can say that he can understand, if he can't hear it. I am not talking about reading or anything else, just simply understanding what someone else is saying to him when they are talking to him.

I don't understand why you would want to encourage her to force him to rely on the limited hearing and lipreading for language learning. He either needs sign or he needs to hear better. I think it is a bad idea for a child who is clearly unable to understand a significant amount of speech (she said he isn't even able to hear all the Ling sounds, let alone all the rest of speech) to rely on his hearing to communicate.

 

[DeafCaroline]

You just said a few posts ago that with your back turned all consonants sound the same. I don't understand how you can say that he can understand, if he can't hear it. I am not talking about reading or anything else, just simply understanding what someone else is saying to him when they are talking to him.

I don't understand why you would want to encourage her to force him to rely on the limited hearing and lipreading for language learning. He either needs sign or he needs to hear better. I think it is a bad idea for a child who is clearly unable to understand a significant amount of speech (she said he isn't even able to hear all the Ling sounds, let alone all the rest of speech) to rely on his hearing to communicate.

I am not encouraging her to force him to rely on hearing only to learn language. I am encouraging her to be patient about his speech progress. She was talking about his lagging behind on some pronounciation.

I am saying one can understand the mechanics of speech and learn to lipread to make up for what he's not hearing. You're saying he doesn't understand because he can't hear. How do you think any deaf kid learn to understand? They do eventually. It just takes time.

You are really confusing me. He's in an oral school so ASL would not be useful in the classroom although it definitely would be very useful and should be first priority as a language in his life, period. And I already said I agree that ASL should be top priority. And she's already learning it and using it with him. What more is she supposed to do?

Sounds like to me that she's doing all she can with the options she has, which is ASL, hearing aids, speech therapy, DHH program, etc etc. The fact he's lagging in speech doesn't mean he has other problems, it just means he's only 4.

 

[Deafguy25]

I am not encouraging her to force him to rely on hearing only to learn language. I am encouraging her to be patient about his speech progress. She was talking about his lagging behind on some pronounciation.

I am saying one can understand the mechanics of speech and learn to lipread to make up for what he's not hearing. You're saying he doesn't understand because he can't hear. How do you think any deaf kid learn to understand? They do eventually. It just takes time.

You are really confusing me. He's in an oral school so ASL would not be useful in the classroom although it definitely would be very useful and should be first priority as a language in his life, period. And I already said I agree that ASL should be top priority. And she's already learning it and using it with him. What more is she supposed to do?

Sounds like to me that she's doing all she can with the options she has, which is ASL, hearing aids, speech therapy, DHH program, etc etc. The fact he's lagging in speech doesn't mean he has other problems, it just means he's only 4.

It isn't about time, it is about appropriate intervention. How do I think any deaf child learns to understand? Some don't!