Should the Government Warn Us?

[Jiro]

They could've done more than just warn in advance......

Believe it or not. This is a first for me as I usually agree with you but this time....

I have to disagree with you inregards to FEMA and it's handling of Katrina. Granted I wasn't there when Katrina hit but I have seen FEMA work when they came to my neck-o-the-woods after being clobbered by 130 mph winds.

I wasn't impressed with their handling of Katrina nor the December windstorm of 2007.

All I can say is that the agency, just like others in the government, needs a major overhaul.

Absolutely! We are still seeing the results of their incompetencies today.

yes so do all of us. we continue to try to improve and learn from our mistakes. Yes - That Michael Brown thing was a huge snafu but remember that FEMA is merely a "coordinator." They are not responsible for providing manpower or any such thing. They provide advices and fund and also help coordinate things at federal level (ONLY when requested by Governor) - That is FEMA's responsibility. It is solely citizens' & municipal's & state's responsibility.

It is people's responsibility to follow procedures and make preparations but no they did not. I understand they were poor or disabled but it was New Orlean's responsibility to facilitate the emergency procedures beforehand such as registry list, etc - not FEMA!!!

 

[jillio]

yes so do all of us. we continue to try to improve and learn from our mistakes. Yes - That Michael Brown thing was a huge snafu but remember that FEMA is merely a "coordinator." They are not responsible for providing manpower or any such thing. They provide advices and fund and also help coordinate things at federal level (ONLY when requested by Governor) - That is FEMA's responsibility. It is solely citizens' & municipal's & state's responsibility.

It is people's responsibility to follow procedures and make preparations but no they did not. I understand they were poor or disabled but it was New Orlean's responsibility to facilitate the emergency procedures beforehand such as registry list, etc - not FEMA!!!

How about the huge debacle over the evaucation of hospitals with critically ill patients, jiro? FEMA certainly knew about them well before the hurricane hit. A critically ill patient cannot simply get out of a bed and walk out and evacuate. And that is but one example of the total ineffectiveness of FEMA in light of Katrina. Manpower wasn't the issue. Coordination was.

 

[Reba]

In VamPyrox's asteroid scenario, the government could only notify people of an impending disaster. It couldn't do anything to prevent it, and there would be no safe place for escape. The most "the government" could do would be to let people know so they could get together with loved ones, if there was enough time left. Otherwise, what's the point?

As a Christian, I would hope and pray that everyone would be spiritually ready for the end of the world but that's not something I would leave in the hands of "the government".

The missile scenario is a little different. There is a possibility of defense and survivability for that one. In that case, the government and military leaders would be busy with providing the defense. There probably wouldn't be enough time for evacuations (where would you go?) or any other actions by civilians.

The experiences of Katrina can't be compared to a nationwide or worldwide disaster. Katrina was a local disaster where outside help and refuge was at least theoretically available.

 

[jillio]

In VamPyrox's asteroid scenario, the government could only notify people of an impending disaster. It couldn't do anything to prevent it, and there would be no safe place for escape. The most "the government" could do would be to let people know so they could get together with loved ones, if there was enough time left. Otherwise, what's the point?

As a Christian, I would hope and pray that everyone would be spiritually ready for the end of the world but that's not something I would leave in the hands of "the government".

The missile scenario is a little different. There is a possibility of defense and survivability for that one. In that case, the government and military leaders would be busy with providing the defense. There probably wouldn't be enough time for evacuations (where would you go?) or any other actions by civilians.

The experiences of Katrina can't be compared to a nationwide or worldwide disaster. Katrina was a local disaster where outside help and refuge was at least theoretically available.

True. Katrina was a local disaster that quickly turned into a national humiliation when that help remained in theory only.

 

[Byrdie714]

In VamPyrox's asteroid scenario, the government could only notify people of an impending disaster. It couldn't do anything to prevent it, and there would be no safe place for escape. The most "the government" could do would be to let people know so they could get together with loved ones, if there was enough time left. Otherwise, what's the point?

As a Christian, I would hope and pray that everyone would be spiritually ready for the end of the world but that's not something I would leave in the hands of "the government".

The missile scenario is a little different. There is a possibility of defense and survivability for that one. In that case, the government and military leaders would be busy with providing the defense. There probably wouldn't be enough time for evacuations (where would you go?) or any other actions by civilians.

The experiences of Katrina can't be compared to a nationwide or worldwide disaster. Katrina was a local disaster where outside help and refuge was at least theoretically available.

True. Katrina was a local disaster that quickly turned into a national humiliation when that help remained in theory only.

Katrina was a local disaster? What have you been sniffing? How can it be a local disaster when it affected 4 different states? (Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida panhandle)

Sorry it was a national disaster that should've been handle by the Federal government and not the state government, especially dealing with something of this magnitude.

If we can summon up 30,000 troops in a day's time to go to Iraq, we can summon up 30,000 people to go in and help evacuate as well as with the recovery efforts.

Sorry Jiro123, FEMA is a joke. Why do you think some of us called it, "Federal Emergency Mis-management Agency"?

Secondly with an agency of Homeland Security-- you would think that Homeland Security would've stepped in and do something. Afterall isn't that what Homeland Security is all about? Securing the Homeland? Apparently not.

(Sorry if I am getting a little tense with this issue as I've had a horrible expereince with FEMA and do not wish it upon my worst enemy. Because if you go through FEMA--your experience would not be all that pleasant either....)

 

[jillio]

Katrina was a local disaster? What have you been sniffing? How can it be a local disaster when it affected 4 different states? (Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida panhandle)

Sorry it was a national disaster that should've been handle by the Federal government and not the state government, especially dealing with something of this magnitude.

If we can summon up 30,000 troops in a day's time to go to Iraq, we can summon up 30,000 people to go in and help evacuate as well as with the recovery efforts.

Sorry Jiro123, FEMA is a joke. Why do you think some of us called it, "Federal Emergency Mis-management Agency"?

Secondly with an agency of Homeland Security-- you would think that Homeland Security would've stepped in and do something. Afterall isn't that what Homeland Security is all about? Securing the Homeland? Apparently not.

(Sorry if I am getting a little tense with this issue as I've had a horrible expereince with FEMA and do not wish it upon my worst enemy. Because if you go through FEMA--your experience would not be all that pleasant either....)

Local only in that it did not directly affect all of the United States. I was just addressing Reba's points. I actually agree with you regarding FEMA and National Homeland Security, and the completely incompetent way in which the victims of Katrina were treated and continue to be treated.

Local is a perspective. Speaking from the perspective of the U.S., several states can be considered local. Looking fromt he perspective of one state, several cities could be considered local. Looking from a global perspective, the U.S. could be considered local. I did not mean that it was restricted to one state or one city.

 

[Jiro]

Katrina was a local disaster? What have you been sniffing? How can it be a local disaster when it affected 4 different states? (Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida panhandle)

Sorry it was a national disaster that should've been handle by the Federal government and not the state government, especially dealing with something of this magnitude.

If we can summon up 30,000 troops in a day's time to go to Iraq, we can summon up 30,000 people to go in and help evacuate as well as with the recovery efforts.

Sorry Jiro123, FEMA is a joke. Why do you think some of us called it, "Federal Emergency Mis-management Agency"?

Secondly with an agency of Homeland Security-- you would think that Homeland Security would've stepped in and do something. Afterall isn't that what Homeland Security is all about? Securing the Homeland? Apparently not.

(Sorry if I am getting a little tense with this issue as I've had a horrible expereince with FEMA and do not wish it upon my worst enemy. Because if you go through FEMA--your experience would not be all that pleasant either....)

GOVERNMENT RESPONDED RAPIDLY
MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard, president, Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005

REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors. In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and fastest-rescue effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall.

Dozens of National Guard and Coast Guard helicopters flew rescue operations that first day--some just 2 hours after Katrina hit the coast. Hoistless Army helicopters improvised rescues, carefully hovering on rooftops to pick up survivors. On the ground, "guardsmen had to chop their way through, moving trees and recreating roadways," says Jack Harrison of the National Guard. By the end of the week, 50,000 National Guard troops in the Gulf Coast region had saved 17,000 people; 4000 Coast Guard personnel saved more than 33,000.

These units had help from local, state and national responders, including five helicopters from the Navy ship Bataan and choppers from the Air Force and police. The Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries dispatched 250 agents in boats. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), state police and sheriffs' departments launched rescue flotillas. By Wednesday morning, volunteers and national teams joined the effort, including eight units from California's Swift Water Rescue. By Sept. 8, the waterborne operation had rescued 20,000.

While the press focused on FEMA's shortcomings, this broad array of local, state and national responders pulled off an extraordinary success--especially given the huge area devastated by the storm. Computer simulations of a Katrina-strength hurricane had estimated a worst-case-scenario death toll of more than 60,000 people in Louisiana. The actual number was 1077 in that state.

NEXT TIME: Any fatalities are too many. Improvements hinge on building more robust communications networks and stepping up predisaster planning to better coordinate local and national resources.

 

[Jolie77]

(Sorry if I am getting a little tense with this issue as I've had a horrible expereince with FEMA and do not wish it upon my worst enemy. Because if you go through FEMA--your experience would not be all that pleasant either....)

I've also had an unpleasant experience with the FEMA few years ago when the tornado tore through the place. It was bad enough that the vicinity of the neighborhood had to be empty for weeks and weeks. It was a whole 'nother nightmare having to deal with their red tape bullshits. That's something I do not want to go through again.

Anyway, Back to the point - Will the Government warn us? Hmm... They might have the chance to warn us in advance when the danger arises but will they actually do it? We don't know that for sure. The government tends to say one thing but in fact, it is always said in another way. It's a whole different ball park as to depending on how it in one's view.

 

[Wokamuka]

I think the amount of time before the national or global disaster determines the government's ability to keep things under wraps. For example, an 8-hour time frame would have more control over information compared to a week's time.

Of course, the fear of anarchy and civil unrest can be mentally and spiritually paralyzing. At this point, I wouldn't mind if it came like a thief in the night.

 

[Jiro]

I've also had an unpleasant experience with the FEMA few years ago when the tornado tore through the place. It was bad enough that the vicinity of the neighborhood had to be empty for weeks and weeks. It was a whole 'nother nightmare having to deal with their red tape bullshits. That's something I do not want to go through again.

Anyway, Back to the point - Will the Government warn us? Hmm... They might have the chance to warn us in advance when the danger arises but will they actually do it? We don't know that for sure. The government tends to say one thing but in fact, it is always said in another way. It's a whole different ball park as to depending on how it in one's view.

yea that's something to work on - the post-disaster bureaucracy crap. But in terms of emergency procedure and evacuation - they did a good job.

 

[Jolie77]

yea that's something to work on - the post-disaster bureaucracy crap. But in terms of emergency procedure and evacuation - they did a good job.

Yeah, I find it so ironic when they are able to respond quickly on the emergency procedure and evacuation but however, they didn't do so well with the post-disaster incident. My question is, If the government truly did their part on trying to do for what's the best, then why is it that they only focus on one part rather than doing various parts?

 

[Jiro]

Yeah, I find it so ironic when they are able to respond quickly on the emergency procedure and evacuation but however, they didn't do so well with the post-disaster incident. My question is, If the government truly did their part on trying to do for what's the best, then why is it that they only focus on one part rather than doing various parts?

 

[Jolie77]

Just a question, If it was YOU in the shoes of the government, What could you be able to do and how will you be able to get around with the program?

 

[Jiro]

Just a question, If it was YOU in the shoes of the government, What could you be able to do and how will you be able to get around with the program?

I will refer to Truman's famous quote - "BUCK STOPS HERE." The government needs to stop creating more and more agencies/chain of commands and stop this cronyism craps by handing out contracts like sweet candies.

1. enlarge AUDIT department
2. eliminate multiple chain-of-command ladder steps and eliminate bunch of contractors
3. hire several professionals to streamline the process for post-disaster victims

umm..... not sure what else....

 

[PowerON]

Just a question, If it was YOU in the shoes of the government, What could you be able to do and how will you be able to get around with the program?

It's like woman want to announcement about being pregnant then later, found out it's miscarriage. So, it's always patient until everything is prove enough to tell.

 

[Jiro]

It's like woman want to announcement about being pregnant then later, found out it's miscarriage. So, it's always patient until everything is prove enough to tell.

dude! that's just... poor taste! :-o

 

[Jolie77]

I will refer to Truman's famous quote - "BUCK STOPS HERE." The government needs to stop creating more and more agencies/chain of commands and stop this cronyism craps by handing out contracts like sweet candies.

1. enlarge AUDIT department
2. eliminate multiple chain-of-command ladder steps and eliminate bunch of contractors
3. hire several professionals to streamline the process for post-disaster victims

umm..... not sure what else....

I would tend to agree with you on the chain of command line because it only causes mass utter confusion. It's like saying one thing begins at the line and when it comes to the end of the line, there is a totally different thing being said. You don't even know which one is right, this one or this one? Ah, It is just a hassle only when there's confusions added into this.

It's like woman want to announcement about being pregnant then later, found out it's miscarriage. So, it's always patient until everything is prove enough to tell.

How is this comparable as to how the Government would warn us? It's not like the government can tell us "Hey, Let's wait this out" when a disaster strikes. When a disaster strikes, it takes a moment's notice, not few weeks later.

 

[Reba]

Katrina was a local disaster? What have you been sniffing? How can it be a local disaster when it affected 4 different states? (Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida panhandle)

Compared to worldwide, that would be local, or at most regional.

Sorry it was a national disaster that should've been handle by the Federal government and not the state government, especially dealing with something of this magnitude.

This thread is not about Katrina. There are existing threads for that discussion. I only used Katrina as example for scale. Obviously if the federal government can't handle a local/regional natural disaster that had plenty of warning, and that allowed for evacuation, then the federal government can't handle a worldwide catastrophe.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I notice that some posters started :topic: debate over Katrina issues... I would suggest you to check this debate thread. We debated most over Bush and FEMA, etc. in that thread then you can post at that threads...

http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/19891-aftermath-hurricane-katrina-2.html


http://www.alldeaf.com/war-politica...uests-more-war-hurricane-emergency-money.html


All what I know from the TV news that Bush admitted his mistake for neglect his part of responsibility on Katrina situation. Yes, local Governor asked him for the financial support in writing after learns hurricane warning but her letter was being ignored and went off for his vacation...

Yes, it upset Bush after learn that some Katrina victims have no cars and no money to escape out of NewOcean. How could they?


Answer Vampy´s question.

Yes I rather to have Government inform us before I´m able to prepare something than know nothing until happen suddenly.

 

[Byrdie714]

Local only in that it did not directly affect all of the United States. I was just addressing Reba's points. I actually agree with you regarding FEMA and National Homeland Security, and the completely incompetent way in which the victims of Katrina were treated and continue to be treated.

Local is a perspective. Speaking from the perspective of the U.S., several states can be considered local. Looking fromt he perspective of one state, several cities could be considered local. Looking from a global perspective, the U.S. could be considered local. I did not mean that it was restricted to one state or one city.

I was questioning the terminology on how one says it's local when it affects 4 states is all.

GOVERNMENT RESPONDED RAPIDLY
MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard, president, Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005

REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors. In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and fastest-rescue effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall.

Dozens of National Guard and Coast Guard helicopters flew rescue operations that first day--some just 2 hours after Katrina hit the coast. Hoistless Army helicopters improvised rescues, carefully hovering on rooftops to pick up survivors. On the ground, "guardsmen had to chop their way through, moving trees and recreating roadways," says Jack Harrison of the National Guard. By the end of the week, 50,000 National Guard troops in the Gulf Coast region had saved 17,000 people; 4000 Coast Guard personnel saved more than 33,000.

These units had help from local, state and national responders, including five helicopters from the Navy ship Bataan and choppers from the Air Force and police. The Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries dispatched 250 agents in boats. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), state police and sheriffs' departments launched rescue flotillas. By Wednesday morning, volunteers and national teams joined the effort, including eight units from California's Swift Water Rescue. By Sept. 8, the waterborne operation had rescued 20,000.

While the press focused on FEMA's shortcomings, this broad array of local, state and national responders pulled off an extraordinary success--especially given the huge area devastated by the storm. Computer simulations of a Katrina-strength hurricane had estimated a worst-case-scenario death toll of more than 60,000 people in Louisiana. The actual number was 1077 in that state.

NEXT TIME: Any fatalities are too many. Improvements hinge on building more robust communications networks and stepping up predisaster planning to better coordinate local and national resources.

Do you have a link to go with that?

I've also had an unpleasant experience with the FEMA few years ago when the tornado tore through the place. It was bad enough that the vicinity of the neighborhood had to be empty for weeks and weeks. It was a whole 'nother nightmare having to deal with their red tape bullshits. That's something I do not want to go through again.

And red-tape bullshits have nothing to do with the disaster to begin with!

Yeah, I find it so ironic when they are able to respond quickly on the emergency procedure and evacuation but however, they didn't do so well with the post-disaster incident. My question is, If the government truly did their part on trying to do for what's the best, then why is it that they only focus on one part rather than doing various parts?

Amen sister! Good post!

Compared to worldwide, that would be local, or at most regional.

This thread is not about Katrina. There are existing threads for that discussion. I only used Katrina as example for scale. Obviously if the federal government can't handle a local/regional natural disaster that had plenty of warning, and that allowed for evacuation, then the federal government can't handle a worldwide catastrophe.

I was using Katrina as an example too. Since the government kind of failed in regards to Katrina--they will fail again when a worldwide disaster hit the U.S.--case in point: an earthquake rattles off the Oregon coast causing an "American tsunami" that will affect 5 states and 2 U.S. territories.

Don't think it will happen? Think again, it can.