Shot By Cop

[jonnyghost]

Ultimately the shooter is responsible for every bullet fired from their gun. It has nothing to do with the criminal or his background.

There seems no doubt that the officer's life and that of the hostage and bystanders was in immediate danger. The officer was not justified in killing others to save his own life so the question is was it reasonable to belived if he did not take the shot would it further indanger the hostage and everyone else. In other words, would it seem to a reasonable person that taking the shot was less risky for everyone than not taking the shot.

To me it seems that we can never actually know the officers motives but there is a justifiable one. It does not seem unrealistic that the suspect was about to start shooting everyone. Therefore without proof otherwise I don't feel that he should face legal action.

 

[CrazyPaul]

Ultimately the shooter is responsible for every bullet fired from their gun. It has nothing to do with the criminal or his background.

There seems no doubt that the officer's life and that of the hostage and bystanders was in immediate danger. The officer was not justified in killing others to save his own life so the question is was it reasonable to belived if he did not take the shot would it further indanger the hostage and everyone else. In other words, would it seem to a reasonable person that taking the shot was less risky for everyone than not taking the shot.

To me it seems that we can never actually know the officers motives but there is a justifiable one. It does not seem unrealistic that the suspect was about to start shooting everyone. Therefore without proof otherwise I don't feel that he should face legal action.

That's right. If the cop is dead, it is possible that the suspect would kill the witnesses afterwards.

 

[jonnyghost]

I think what makes it tough is that it's impossible to know the offices actual motives. It seems a cowardly act at first glance but there are reasonable alternatives. Without any real evidence to prove one way or another only the officer will really know.

 

[Jiro]

What? He decided to kill the girl? Watch what you are saying.

a cop made a split decision to shoot even with a hostage in front of an intruder. what kind of person does that? a coward.

 

[Jiro]

The officer who fired the shots is an eight-year NYPD veteran and has been with Nassau County police for 12 years.

yes I know and that means nothing to me.

NYPD? it's a joke. that's why 2 officers were spraying around at Empire State Building and several civilians got shot.

their gun training is a joke. I know NYPD and they're a joke. ESU is not a joke but NYPD is a joke. Nassau County is like a suburb. it's an easy job.

NYPD has a very long history of poor/lax/joke gun training and being trigger happy as well as spraying till their magazine goes empty..... and they have high-capacity magazines.

Amadou Diallo. 23 years old guy. NYPD shot 41x at him (but 19 shots hit him) because they thought he had a gun but it was a wallet.
Jeffrey Johnson. 58 years old shooter at Empire State Building. 2 NYPD officers shot 16x. 9 civilians were shot.

 

[sonocativo]

a cop made a split decision to shoot even with a hostage in front of an intruder. what kind of person does that? a coward.

The intruder had her in a headlock, she was besides and behind him
(common sense of a headlock) but did her pull her in front of him before he pointed at the police? That's where the media lacks attention...
Now if the cop had Full Metal Jackets, yes the bullet traveled through him and hit her, but in a headlock, her head was exposed to danger as stated. Now, my big question is, the cop shot 8 time, 7 hitting the intruder one hitting the victim...why did her fire so many times? all seven shots hit the intruder except the 8th which hit her.

 

[jonnyghost]

7 of 8 shots hit the intruder. He made the decision to risk taking the shot. He did not intentionally hit the girl. There is always risk involved in a situation like this. He may have believed the intruder would kill the girls anyway after he killed the cop.

 

[jonnyghost]

The intruder had her in a headlock, she was besides and behind him
(common sense of a headlock) but did her pull her in front of him before he pointed at the police? That's where the media lacks attention...
Now if the cop had Full Metal Jackets, yes the bullet traveled through him and hit her, but in a headlock, her head was exposed to danger as stated. Now, my big question is, the cop shot 8 time, 7 hitting the intruder one hitting the victim...why did her fire so many times? all seven shots hit the intruder except the 8th which hit her.

It's important to shoot until the threat is neutralized. There isn't a specific number of bullets to accomplish that.

 

[Jiro]

The intruder had her in a headlock, she was besides and behind him
(common sense of a headlock) but did her pull her in front of him before he pointed at the police? That's where the media lacks attention...
Now if the cop had Full Metal Jackets, yes the bullet traveled through him and hit her, but in a headlock, her head was exposed to danger as stated. Now, my big question is, the cop shot 8 time, 7 hitting the intruder one hitting the victim...why did her fire so many times? all seven shots hit the intruder except the 8th which hit her.

what? how exactly can an intruder get shot 7x with a hostage as a shield?

The first shot obviously killed her in the head and when her body dropped down... there you go.

 

[jonnyghost]

That's assuming that the hostage completely covered the intruder at all times which is doubtful.

 

[Jiro]

7 of 8 shots hit the intruder. He made the decision to risk taking the shot. He did not intentionally hit the girl. There is always risk involved in a situation like this. He may have believed the intruder would kill the girls anyway after he killed the cop.

you don't know that. maybe he didn't intend to kill a girl. maybe he didn't intend to shoot at cop. what I see is a very disturbed and highly-agitated guy waving his gun around with no intention to use it.

but either way - better him than an officer killing a girl.

 

[Jiro]

That's assuming that the hostage completely covered the intruder at all times which is doubtful.

trust me. the first shot killed her.

....unless he's got high marksmanship training and training in armed hostage situation.

 

[Jiro]

I think what makes it tough is that it's impossible to know the offices actual motives. It seems a cowardly act at first glance but there are reasonable alternatives. Without any real evidence to prove one way or another only the officer will really know.

the evidence and logic will establish that a girl was killed in the head from the first shot and dropped dead. the intruder was most likely stunned for a second and then immediately got shot 7x in the center mass.

 

[Jiro]

That's right. If the cop is dead, it is possible that the suspect would kill the witnesses afterwards.

you don't know that.

what we do know is that a poor girl was killed by a cop in the head and an intruder used her as a human shield.
what I do know is that this cop will never wear a badge again.

a girl killed in a college campus by a cop? unfathomable. unforgivable.

 

[jonnyghost]

you don't know that. maybe he didn't intend to kill a girl. maybe he didn't intend to shoot at cop. what I see is a very disturbed and highly-agitated guy waving his gun around with no intention to use it.

but either way - better him than an officer killing a girl.

That's why laws regarding this sort of thing are worded "reasonable to believe". It's reasonable to believe that someone taking a hostage and pointing a gun at you has the intent to shoot you. Otherwise you'd have to wait till they shot you to know for sure.

 

[jonnyghost]

trust me. first shot killed her.

....unless he's got high marksmanship training and training in armed hostage situation.

My guess is she's probably a lot smaller than him and couldn't cover him completely even at a perpendicular angle. Yes a difficult shot but that is why it was risky. If left with no better options why wouldn't he take a risky shot. As far as what shot number killed her, we'll have to wait and find out.

 

[Jiro]

That's why laws regarding this sort of thing are worded "reasonable to believe". It's reasonable to believe that someone taking a hostage and pointing a gun at you has the intent to shoot you. Otherwise you'd have to wait till they shot you to know for sure.

right........ and you'd shoot at a hostage as human shield?

me? definitely no for sure.

 

[Jiro]

My guess is she's probably a lot smaller than him and couldn't cover him completely even at a perpendicular angle. Yes a difficult shot but that is why it was risky. If left with no better options why wouldn't he take a risky shot. As far as what shot number killed her, we'll have to wait and find out.

no. no. and no. trust me. that's not how it works.

I've done a lot of shooting including hostage scenario because I compete in IDPA. I even accidentally shot at hostage when trying to aim for shooter's head.

risky shot? more like reckless.

 

[jonnyghost]

you don't know that.

what we do know is that a poor girl was killed by a cop in the head and an intruder used her as a human shield.
what I do know is that this cop will never wear a badge again.

a girl killed in a college campus by a cop? unfathomable. unforgivable.

No I don't know what would have happened. The only way to find out would have been if the cop didn't shoot. But it's not an unreasonable outcome. If we had to wait and let the suspect do what he wanted to first to make sure of his intent then there is the possibility that everyone would have been dead.

 

[Jiro]

No I don't know what would have happened. The only way to find out would have been if the cop didn't shoot. But it's not an unreasonable outcome. If we had to wait and let the suspect do what he wanted to first to make sure of his intent then there is the possibility that everyone would have been dead.

that's fine.

if he shot at a cop and killed her... it's a tragedy.
if he killed her first and then cop shot him.... it's a tragedy.

but a cop killing a hostage... just... no no no no. a big no no.