See this. It s a perfect example!

[Liebling:-)))]

I agree...I dont want to be ASL only nor oral only..I want BOTH!!!! I was denied ASL and I am pissed about it!

AGREE!!!!!!!!!

I need sign language with mouth movement (oral)... Without mouth movement is hard to understand what sign language is about.

 

[jillio]

Exactly and it is that anger that makes me blind to reason!

Agree with you and deafskeptic both on the language issue. And when I see children being deprived of opportunity to develop those skills, I see what is coming for them as adults. Double pisses me off!:rl:

 

[jillio]

Some people believe in the use of absolutely no devices, including hearing aids. Even if such children raised under such a system develop written English, the ban of all devices is an extreme position to me rather than a concessionary one. I'd say that most people here on AD have their hearing assisted in some sort of way.

Ahhh...but you are limiting your view to the use of English as a spoken language. There have been,a nd always will be, those deaf/Deaf who prefer not to use assistive devises to increase their auditory perception that have mastered English to fluency in its written form. It is still English and it is still a second language. My son, for instance, was provided with HAs. As an adult, he uses them selectively, and in only those situations inwhich he feels they are a benefit to him. Yet, he is very literate, and our home was bilingual with the use of ASL and English. I know many deaf/Deaf indiviuals whose experience mimics his.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

what puzzles me is this- it is absolutely proven fact that the sooner the baby is implanted , the better CI use.

so it's only a common sense that earlier is better. and for heaven's sake having CI does NOT exclude use of ASL.

YOU CAN HAVE BOTH - CI AND ASL

how would someone willingly take away a chance of hearing well from his own child is beyond me.

Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

what puzzles me is this- it is absolutely proven fact that the sooner the baby is implanted , the better CI use.

so it's only a common sense that earlier is better. and for heaven's sake having CI does NOT exclude use of ASL.

YOU CAN HAVE BOTH - CI AND ASL

how would someone willingly take away a chance of hearing well from his own child is beyond me.

Fuzzy

Everyone is different and if we are gonna accept each other then accept those who decide not to implant their children. I have worked with children who have no benefit from their CIs at all.

 

[highlands]

Everyone is different and if we are gonna accept each other then accept those who decide not to implant their children. I have worked with children who have no benefit from their CIs at all.

Do you know the reason of no benefit ? *just curious *

 

[shel90]

Do you know the reason of no benefit ? *just curious *

Could be a lot of factors...I really have no idea because I dont worry about that part. I worry about ensuring that they have access to language at all times and get them up to par with literacy skills. That's my primary concern.

 

[R2D2]

Ahhh...but you are limiting your view to the use of English as a spoken language. There have been,a nd always will be, those deaf/Deaf who prefer not to use assistive devises to increase their auditory perception that have mastered English to fluency in its written form. It is still English and it is still a second language. My son, for instance, was provided with HAs. As an adult, he uses them selectively, and in only those situations inwhich he feels they are a benefit to him. Yet, he is very literate, and our home was bilingual with the use of ASL and English. I know many deaf/Deaf indiviuals whose experience mimics his.

I respect your views Jillio. However, after thinking about this long and hard, I do feel that written English only is partial bilingualism. As you know, having English as your primary language, probably more of it of it is expressed in the spoken form, especially in particular circumstances, such as needing to communicate quickly.

I think that one cannot claim to have complete or overall mastery of a language unless they are familiar with all it's major forms. I would not claim to be "bilingual" if I could only write German but not speak it for example.

I know you will disagree and I respect that and basically we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. This is why for me, I would be happier with a Bi Bi program that had both ASL and English in all it's major forms. Obviously to do that, you'd benefit from a device as a deaf person.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Do you know the reason of no benefit ? *just curious *

Could be a lot of factors...I really have no idea because I dont worry about that part.

How can you make an informed decision about whether to CI or not a young baby, then ?????

You simply CAN NOT.
Not wanting to know is not an excuse if you participate in disussion that weighs pro and cons of early implantation.

You either know and understand the impact of early and late implantation, or you don't, and that is your choice, but if you don't care/ don't know about it you shouldn't discuss pro and con of implanting little babies.

Do you know the reason of no benefit

It could be, for instance, implanting an older child who is past language development.

Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

How can you make an informed decision about whether to CI or not a young baby, then ?????

You simply CAN NOT.
Not wanting to know is not an excuse if you participate in disussion that weighs pro and cons of early implantation.

You either know and understand the impact of early and late implantation, or you don't, and that is your choice, but if you don't care/ don't know about it you shouldn't discuss pro and con of implanting little babies.



It could be, for instance, implanting an older child who is past language development.

Fuzzy

I dont work with babies..I dont participate in the implant making decision. I work with elementary age kids and the kids who have come to me rarely wear their processor. I ask the audi about that and she said that these children dont benefit from their CIs and I was like oh ok. My job is to teach them the curriculm, not speech skills. That's the speech dept's responsibilty. I dont know why that upsetted you. I wasnt there when these children were implanted so I dont have any say. I have always said it is the family's business not mine whether they want to implant their children or not. It doesnt matter to me as long as the children has full access to language and dont struggle with literacy later on. That's my goal.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

You didn't upset me

but it seems like we are talking about totally different things.
I was talking about the fact how some parents make uniformed decisions when it comes to CI.
Just by saying "let the child decide" they show how much or rather how little they understand about early implanation.

You, in your reply reffer to being acceptant of other people's views. That is not what I am talking about. This is a whole different "pair of shoes".

Fuzzy

 

[Sweetmind]

:bsflag: NO ORAL METHOD INVOLVED into the classroom except for the outside classes of SpeechReading as for lipreading or Speech as for learning how to speak if any deafies want to .. PERIOD! That s what Deaf school is all about fit for all Deaf children with ASL and BI BI langauges that is the reason for us to use our receptive eyes that you cannot tell me that Deaf child can hear on the phone completely. I find this is full of crapola that I read some of their statements as far as I Know it so since I was ex HOH for a very short time, deaf oralist, and now D e a f that I will never regret for being deaf ever again not for YOU or anybody with AUDIST ATTITUDE as usual. It s not freedom of being deaf after all those years, you are actually kiss their smelly feet, what a fun for you! Audism people DO NOT RESPECT YOU as the WHOLE PERSON with deafness. Whew I am not like Audism people.

Read it again that u need to do this more than 100 times until u understand the whole meanings of my writings.. NO EXCUSES from any of you!

NO MORE AUDISM PEOPLE take over our Deaf Education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOu know what most of you totally deaf oralist only / Latened deaf, CIers with a stinky audist attitude and Deaf Oralism with a stinky audist attitude are full of BS and could not understand the concept of English langauge as I can see. I can see they are twisting around the words that doesnt convenice me that easily.

The three types of triangle are coming from the part of our heads that is very touchy and sensitive area. That affects our sights, deaf ears and the process of Brain Works as usual. It s a real very sensitive area for us Deaf people who doesnt like to be touch our head or ears if you mind. It cannot connects together at once to fit in together in Deaf child while we learned three or four different ways of complication for a real communication or learning process.

DEVICES are too dangerous to keep this going on and on killing our Deaf children s natural abilities and adaptations that is a very inhuman cruel treatment. Why bother to damage more on our Deaf ears that is not disease if you mind? It s actually from your own selfish and a cold heartened toward Deaf children that I ever know. No wonder (d) not Deaf community AUDISM people that included teacher, counselor, staffs, Audiology professional destroy our Deaf community that comes from the outside of [d]eaf community. Scoffs!

That s what it s all purpose for us to have Deaf community of Natural World not Hearing world that we can enjoy more than ever for the next Deaf generation. I strongly believe this is the most important for those audist pe to have this change for a better growth in your life that is very important to hae a good attitude as well.

Now it s a real boring over and over the same issue about CI that is no different from HA all long.. It s more of addiction to brainwashing you and innocent Deaf children by their own parents or any audist attitude people are very very evil thing to do those Deaf children as well.

Deaf will be always deaf thats the truth so therefore it s out of the question to think it s a Hearing child.

CI is good for latened deaf only as as their own choice to make, not Latened Deaf who doesnt want to do anything with CI device if you mind.. They are more welcomed to be with us all along in Deaf community since NO ONE told Latened Deaf about ASL or Deaf community. They were isolated to themselves all along if you mind. Until they found the site and met me. I have helped them all along and give more information for their NEEDS to get the accessories of the Deaf.

Thats why I feel that all those term that relates to the acccessories like radio clock with the alarm, fire smoke alarm, and many more. It should be named after Deaf Products so they can find it easily than HEARING PRODUCTS if you mind.. Thats why I dont agree everything has to be controlled by Audism people like a sybmol of hearing standard only. This is not for AUDISM people only if you mind.

OH yeah you think I cannot read very well while you couldnt understand English article or my true expression that shows a true color.. YOu are out of the border line of Deaf community that they treat you like a hearing child who have a very difficult concept level of understandings and become more disabled. :stupid:

I can see some of you have no sense at all. What a pity! That includes you DeafDyke and her stupid vocbulary word of speclesh ASL, too. No wonder u are all mixed up in your head as always as I CAN SEE for a long time after I read yours.

Scoffs u are thinking of a hearing child instead as your DEATH WISHES of a REAL Deaf children.


BI BI languages should not be using the voices as always. So be it!

(Each day, I am having more nausea to puke at MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL/ AUDISM s CHILD ABUSE toward Deaf innocent babies/children)

Sweetmind

 

[pek1]

Perfect answer , Now I am gonna to say this aloud , TOUSI.. Now you know what I mean by this term Residual Hearing from other Deaf forums. You had a big doubt in me at that time from the past years as well as PEK got the correct answer. Now dont give me that attitude of yours lately. Thanks!

Good job, Pek got the level of understanding that makes my day.

Thank you so much!

Sweetmind

You're welcome, my cyber friend!

 

[deafskeptic]

:bsflag:


DEVICES are too dangerous to keep this going on and on killing our Deaf children s natural abilities and adaptations that is a very inhuman cruel treatment. Why bother to damage more on our Deaf ears that is not disease if you mind? It s actually from your own selfish and a cold heartened toward Deaf children that I ever know. No wonder (d) not Deaf community AUDISM people that included teacher, counselor, staffs, Audiology professional destroy our Deaf community that comes from the outside of [d]eaf community. Scoffs!

Sweetmind

Ah I see. It seems that I was wrong about your position.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

If I ever saw BULLLSHIIIT this is it:

DEVICES are too dangerous to keep this going on and on killing our Deaf children s natural abilities and adaptations that is a very inhuman cruel treatment.

Somebody forgot to take her medication....

Fuzzy

 

[Cloggy]

...............

DEVICES ..... dangerous ..... killing ..... Deaf children..... very inhuman cruel treatment. ..... damage ..... Deaf ears ..... not disease ..... selfish ..... cold heartened ..... Deaf children ..... ..... ..... AUDISM ..... included teacher, counselor, staffs, Audiology ..... destroy ..... Deaf community ..... . Scoffs!

..... Audism ..... AUDISM .....

..... a true color.. ..... border line ..... Deaf community ..... disabled. :stupid:

..... no sense ..... . What a pity! That includes you DeafDyke and her stupid vocbulary ..... speclesh ..... , too. ..... mixed up in your head ..... .

Scoffs ..... DEATH WISHES ..... REAL Deaf children.

BI BI languages ..... . So be it!

(..... nausea ..... puke ..... MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL/ AUDISM s CHILD ABUSE ..... Deaf innocent babies/children)

Sweetmind

And you are suprised that you get banned at times???
Man, I hope DeafNotes will be up and running again...

...............

DEVICES are too dangerous to keep this going on and on killing our Deaf children s natural abilities and adaptations that is a very inhuman cruel treatment. ........

I have explained quite a lot of times (over the last 2 years) how Ci works.
Either you just don't get it (and some people can't help that... that's OK) or jou are willingfully spreading wrong information..

Try to learn something Sweetmind... instead of just posting the words "audist", "bullshit" and "scoffs".

 

[Cloggy]

............

Since you're into making unprovable, out of thin air statements about others, maybe it's time I tell the world how Nutty got you pregnant?

Finally, back on Topic..

I'm all ears!!

 

[Cloggy]

First of all, I like to make it correct about your child who is Deaf son as well as my apologizies. ...........
Sweetmind

SweetMind,
A deaf child is not by definition Deaf. That requires more than deafness.

 

[jillio]

I respect your views Jillio. However, after thinking about this long and hard, I do feel that written English only is partial bilingualism. As you know, having English as your primary language, probably more of it of it is expressed in the spoken form, especially in particular circumstances, such as needing to communicate quickly.

I think that one cannot claim to have complete or overall mastery of a language unless they are familiar with all it's major forms. I would not claim to be "bilingual" if I could only write German but not speak it for example.

I know you will disagree and I respect that and basically we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. This is why for me, I would be happier with a Bi Bi program that had both ASL and English in all it's major forms. Obviously to do that, you'd benefit from a device as a deaf person.

In most circumstances, I would tend to agree with you on your view of bilingualism. However, in the situation f a deaf individual, they are often, even with the use of a devise, to gain use of a language in its oral or spoken form based on impairment in their ability to process auditory stimuli. Int hat situation, not being able to speak the langauge has nothing to do with knowledge of that langauge, but with physical inability to use that language in one of its forms. Does that mean that one who is unable for physiological reasons, to use a langauge in its oral auditory form, but is fluent in the written form any less bilingual? If that were the case, then the hearing child who is dyslexic, and unable to use written English in its written form, despite being fluent in the oral aduitory mode of that langauge, would be considered to be non-fluent in English. Or the blind individual who is unable to use written
form and must use it in its tactile form or convert written to the oral/auditory form. If these individuals did not have an impairment in one of their sensory functions, then they would be able to use the langauge in all its modes. It is not a matter of knowledge or skill, but one of physical limitation. The blind overcomes my converting to tactile mode, the dyslesic to an oral/auditory, and the deaf to a visual mode.

 

[jillio]

what puzzles me is this- it is absolutely proven fact that the sooner the baby is implanted , the better CI use.

so it's only a common sense that earlier is better. and for heaven's sake having CI does NOT exclude use of ASL.

YOU CAN HAVE BOTH - CI AND ASL

how would someone willingly take away a chance of hearing well from his own child is beyond me.

Fuzzy

Actually, fuzzy, it has not been proven. It has only been supported in some children. There are far too many variables involved to state that such has been proven. And if a child is implanted as an infant, there is no way to know if that child would have also been able to develop oral skills based on the use of residual hearing and hearing aids. There is no base for comparison, so it is impossible to say that the CI alone is responsible for that child's abiltiy to develop oral skills.

What about all of the children whose parents were told that, due to the levels indicated by their audiograms as a toddler, they would never be able to speak, and yet those kids did, with ATV and no CI, develop oral skills? My son does not have a CI, and he has excellent oral skills. Shel does not have a CI, she has excellent oral skills. Both test out, audiologically, int he severe to profound range without sound perception in the speech range when unaided. And they are just two examples of many. Likewise, there are individuals who were implanted as babies or young children who have been unable to develop the same degree of oral language even with a CI.

So, to my way of thinking, why someone would willingly take away the chance to communicate and become educated by depriving a deaf child language simply to utilize an impaired sensory function is the more puzzling question.