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Wirelessly posted
no one is saying that they must speak, just that they have to know the language that they are learning to read.
um.... learning to read at age 3?
Wirelessly posted
no one is saying that they must speak, just that they have to know the language that they are learning to read.
AlleyCat said:Wirelessly posted
the majority of deaf high school students read at levels considered "far below" proficient.
if the only language a deaf 6 year old knows is ASL, how are they going to learn to read English? They need to learn the language first, get to a level in which they can use English for face to face communication and then they can learn to read.
(and no, i am not talking about speaking. I am talking about ANY way of being fluent in English.)
Oh no. Not doing this fight again. We went through all this last year. If a bunch of us here aren't examples enough for you, then I simply don't know what to post anymore.
Wirelessly posted
no one is saying that they must speak, just that they have to know the language that they are learning to read.
Wirelessly posted
no one is saying that they must speak, just that they have to know the language that they are learning to read.
Beowulf said:Wirelessly posted
except that the research says it isn't that simple.
On the contrary. It does. Watch out for the word "language." It can be ASL as well as English.
have you looked at the research? At the test scores? It is simply a fact. I am sorry it makes you uncomfortable, but we can't find solutions if we deny there is even a problem.
Wirelessly posted
the articles posted specify that ENGLISH needs to be mastered, not just language. It says that ASL users need to be able to use English in face to face to communication before learning to read.
again, not language and not speaking, but English.
I take it that FJ doesn't like what WE have to say and that is why this thread is going to hell.
All hell will break loose when I am set loose in Vegas tmw!!!!!
I take it that FJ doesn't like what WE have to say and that is why this thread is going to hell.
Daredevel7 said:Wirelessly posted
no one is saying that they must speak, just that they have to know the language that they are learning to read.
Are you sure about that?
Check out Chinese writings. Do you really have to know Chinese spoken language (Mandarin or Cantonese) in order to "read" Chinese. I bet I can learn how to write Chinese symbols without even having to speak Chinese at all.
Same concept.
again, it doesn't say you have to speak English, it says you have to be able to use and understand the language.
and again, it is not me saying this, but the researchers from the articles. (go yell at marschark! "there is no evidence that fluency in a signed language is sufficient to provide a deaf child with the underpinnings necessary for english literacy. Research and theory both point to the need for some kind of bridge. For some deaf individuals speechreading, for others it is cochlear implants or an english based signing system.)
That is the question I constantly ask over and over and over and over and over and over again but never gets answered.
It is obvious that they dont have a answer for that.
See if you can see a Cirque du Soliel show! I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Ka and O. Although it can be very $$$$$.
See if you can see a Cirque du Soliel show! I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Ka and O. Although it can be very $$$$$.
Will you put $100 on 5 black for me ??
Wirelessly posted
from what i understand, the issue is trying to read and write a language that you do not know. ASL using children do not know English, so they have to learn an entirely new and different language to read and write. Literacy is linked to the ability to use (and know) english for face to face communication. Without that reading and writing are hugely difficult and that is why the "4th grade" barrier remains.
English and math traditionally have been the most difficult areas for deaf children, and as much as I wish we had the solutions (note the plural), we have not made a lot of progress in the last few decades. Certainly, kids with implants are doing better on average than kids without implants, but they still generally perform behind hearing peers. That, in itself, is a clue of where we need to look for some answers.
Will you put $100 on 5 black for me ??